To Kill or Not – Tough question – Harder decision

To Kill or Not - Usually Last Resort

  • Never Take a Life- I would let them kill others

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    24

Goober

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To Kill or Not – Tough question – Harder decision

To Kill or Not – a question that many have a so called firm position depending upon a number of possible situations. Yet the vast majority have never had to make that decision. That is a good thing as it reflects our society as basically safe

The reason I use so called – They have never been faced with that decision – At times where seconds count as an eternity.

What would force you to take another persons life – I say forced as it is usually, but not always the last resort.

Soldiers engaging the enemy do not have that opportunity to talk them out of trying to kill them. So in a fire fight it is engage and kill the enemy.

The Same applies to taking out known Terrorist with Drones. Limit causalities. Disrupt the Terror Org. Create fear for the next one in charge. And it works.

Please review and answer the Poll questions as they cover about all situations.
 
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IdRatherBeSkiing

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May 28, 2007
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In a situation of self defense or family defence, the response would be almost automatic -- fight or flight. pure instict.

While I would prefer to avoid such a situation, I would kill if there was no other choice.
 

Goober

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In a situation of self defense or family defence, the response would be almost automatic -- fight or flight. pure instict.

While I would prefer to avoid such a situation, I would kill if there was no other choice.

There are other questions in the poll. Would you kill to protect another person(s) from being killed?
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
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There are other questions in the poll. Would you kill to protect another person(s) from being killed?

More than likely I would .... if there was no other way around it. Of course, I interpret that as a violence on the street sort of thing. Not so clear cut if you turn it into a 'Would you kill Hitler if you knew he was going to be Hitler?' type quandry.
 

Goober

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More than likely I would .... if there was no other way around it. Of course, I interpret that as a violence on the street sort of thing. Not so clear cut if you turn it into a 'Would you kill Hitler if you knew he was going to be Hitler?' type quandry.

I would agree - That is why questions like if I could kill Hitler are not in there - I think I covered situations that a person may encounter - may or may not support

I just asked for 2 more poll questions to be added.
 
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Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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Self defense- Goes without saying.
Protect family- Again goes without saying.
In service to Country or community - That's part of the deal. If your not prepared to pull the trigger you should consider another career. Not to say that it isn't difficult to live with.
 
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DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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A true pacifist might say that he wouldn't kill to save a member of his family...
But let him face a situation where someone is about to shoot a member of his family and he has a firearm in reach and he say he wouldn't grab that gun and shoot the sonofab_itch...I say bullshyte and that person is lying through his teeth.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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Middle option. In defense of self/family/others. Kill or be killed situation, a fight for survival. I want to live.

Hope I never have to make that choice. If I ever did, I'm sure it would haunt me, despite the justification for it.
 

Goober

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A true pacifist might say that he wouldn't kill to save a member of his family...
But let him face a situation where someone is about to shoot a member of his family and he has a firearm in reach and he say he wouldn't grab that gun and shoot the sonofab_itch...I say bullshyte and that person is lying through his teeth.

I think that most people would - the survival instinct - adrenaline - But I am also as sure that people have not taken any action and were killed because they would not bend their moral belief of not killing.
A timbstone i heard of comes to mind
Boothill

Here lies Lester Moore,
4 slugs from times a 44,
No Les
No more.

Another one

Here lies the body of Samuel Crane
He ran a race with a passenger train
He got to the crossing and almost across
Sam and his car was a total loss
Sams spirit now tolls his knell
That Sam is on his way to well
If he only took time to stop look and listen
He'd be living now instead of missing

Middle option. In defense of self/family/others. Kill or be killed situation, a fight for survival. I want to live.

Hope I never have to make that choice. If I ever did, I'm sure it would haunt me, despite the justification for it.

That it would haunt - upset - cause distress - demonstrates you have a conscience.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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I believe that all life is sacred...

I can however compartmentalize my emotion and ethical beliefs. In the dispensing of duty to my country, countrymen, family.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for true pacifists. Who abhor violence of any kind. Who believe that the taking the life of another human being, is simply wrong. Whose faith, principle and beliefs are so devout, that could give their life, before taking one.

That takes courage, and conviction, of no less strength or character than that of someone that would kill to save that person.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I believe that all life is sacred...

I can however compartmentalize my emotion and ethical beliefs. In the dispensing of duty to my country, countrymen, family.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for true pacifists. Who abhor violence of any kind. Who believe that the taking the life of another human being, is simply wrong. Whose faith, principle and beliefs are so devout, that could give their life, before taking one.

That takes courage, and conviction, of no less strength or character than that of someone that would kill to save that person.

Well said
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Not a black and white situation at all. Before one can even "kill in self defense " one has to have the means to do so. Not everyone does and most sensible folks don't carry (lethal) weapons on them .

Self defense situations are not planned. They usually arise unexpectedly.

Personally......I might bite and scratch and kick in "self defense" as that is what I could do in a sudden situation . I do not and WILL NOT carry a weapon .......particularly a lethal one. Pepper spray ?? maybe. If I get killed by some weapon toting idiot ... Then that is how it is. I can control what I do but I cannot control what others do.

defending ones family ........again. one does not plan on these situations. Most of the time they arise suddenly.

Don't think I could kill another person......regardless of the circumstances. Can hardly "kill " a bug that invades my sidewalks or gardens.

One has to be in that kind of threatening situation to know what they would do. Outside of that......one is just musing and speculating.

as one does not know for certain what they would do , how they would react in a volatile or threatening situation.
 

Goober

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Not a black and white situation at all. Before one can even "kill in self defense " one has to have the means to do so. Not everyone does and most sensible folks don't carry (lethal) weapons on them .

Self defense situations are not planned. They usually arise unexpectedly.

Personally......I might bite and scratch and kick in "self defense" as that is what I could do in a sudden situation . I do not and WILL NOT carry a weapon .......particularly a lethal one. Pepper spray ?? maybe. If I get killed by some weapon toting idiot ... Then that is how it is. I can control what I do but I cannot control what others do.

defending ones family ........again. one does not plan on these situations. Most of the time they arise suddenly.

Don't think I could kill another person......regardless of the circumstances. Can hardly "kill " a bug that invades my sidewalks or gardens.

One has to be in that kind of threatening situation to know what they would do. Outside of that......one is just musing and speculating.

as one does not know for certain what they would do , how they would react in a volatile or threatening situation.

You never know what you are capable of until that type of situation arises. Not referring to Soldiers.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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This is a trolling exercise, and as such I will not honor the troll with an answer. Again
....

You brought up the point on another post - I tried to find out where you stood - I asked from some various viewpoints such as Soldiers killing to protect lives in Darfur - As usual - Your mode is to go off the fukin deep end. Now put me back on Ignore. Life was peaceful. Luv Ya Ger.

Against my better judgment, and I'm sure Gh will chide me for it, trolling or not, I have to speak my mind here.

This...

I have nothing but the utmost respect for true pacifists. Who abhor violence of any kind. Who believe that the taking the life of another human being, is simply wrong. Whose faith, principle and beliefs are so devout, that they could give their life, before taking one.

That takes courage, and conviction, of no less strength or character than that of someone that would kill to save that person.
...was completely written with Gh in mind.

One of the reasons I have a great deal of respect for Gh, is that very belief. His principles, his belief in this matter is beyond reproach in my books.

It is a core value, that I have absolutely no doubt, he will honour to his grave. That I have never seem him waver on, have a double standard with, or be hypocritical in any way shape or form.

He is, as far as I am concerned, the only true pacifist on this site. And is the only pacifist, that has ever leveled an argument for his position, that changed my mind about the true pacifist.
 

Goober

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....



Against my better judgment, and I'm sure Gh will chide me for it, trolling or not, I have to speak my mind here.

This...

...was completely written with Gh in mind.

One of the reasons I have a great deal of respect for Gh, is that very belief. His principles, his belief in this matter is beyond reproach in my books.

It is a core value, that I have absolutely no doubt, he will honour to his grave. That I have never seem him waver on, have a double standard with, or be hypocritical in any way shape or form.

He is, as far as I am concerned, the only true pacifist on this site. And is the only pacifist, that has ever leveled an argument for his position, that changed my mind about the true pacifist.

And I agreed - So regardless of what I post I have Little Ger on my ass. Angry No - It is tiresome though.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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I asked for 2 more poll questions to be added and they were. Thanks to the Mod.

The last two options are, in my opinion, harder to decide upon.

In a "kill or be killed" situation, I'm guessing instinct would take over, it's not so much a decision as an action or reaction I think.

But if you are talking about going to war, that is a decision. A really difficult one, morally and ethically.

Am I against war? Yes, of course. I don't really believe anyone is for war. They may be inured to it but I have to believe that deep down given a choice, a real choice, almost all would choose not to have war. But it is the agreeing on peace that's usually the hardest part anyway. JMO

On the other hand though, we should stand up for ourselves and what we feel is right. War is not only about attacking but also about defending and protecting, either ourselves or others. And that is surely as ethical of a stance as pacifism is.

Yet defense as justification for attack can be a kind of a double edged sword. Is the necessity real or perceived? If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the majority of the German public did believe they needed to act in self defense against Poland too.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
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Calgary, AB
I believe that all life is sacred...

I can however compartmentalize my emotion and ethical beliefs. In the dispensing of duty to my country, countrymen, family.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for true pacifists. Who abhor violence of any kind. Who believe that the taking the life of another human being, is simply wrong. Whose faith, principle and beliefs are so devout, that could give their life, before taking one.

That takes courage, and conviction, of no less strength or character than that of someone that would kill to save that person.

I agree wholeheartedly with all that you have stated here but I must say one other thing: I think true pacifists are wrong. I don't think it is wrong to desire peace and abhor violence, but I think they are wrong to hold that belief so high. Maybe its because I am selfish: there is no higher priority in my life than protecting and providing for my family, and if it meant I would have to kill to do it, then I would. I also believe that the good of the many outweighs the good of the one and that holding to your own conviction over the good of others is also an extremely selfish conceit (unless that one is my son then the many can go f*** themselves... sorry, I channel Bear when it comes to my man-cub).