Is It Time For A Referemdum On The Monarchy?

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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www.cynicsunlimited.com
Yes! Finally.

One reason why the monarchy is not at all relevant is that in England, Europe, Asia, Africa and pre-Columbia America, from top to bottom in most of these societies, they had one common custom, arranged marriages. Parents decided who their children married in the old days-and this practice still occurs in the world. Support the monarchy and you support backward, anti-modern customs. The monarchy no longer represents Canada. Canada has never had arranged marriages, modernity means you have control of your fertility, no one else.

I'll be voting to abolish it of course. The republic of Canada, sounds good to me.


Keith Beardsley: Is it Time For a Referendum on the Monarchy?

Keith Beardsley
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/users/becomeFan.php?of=hp_blogger_Keith Beardsleyhttp://www.huffingtonpost.ca/author/index.php?author=keith-beardsleyhttp://www.huffingtonpost.ca/users/login/http://twitter.com/Atory01








Is it Time For a Referendum on the Monarchy?

Posted: 9/11/11 12:27 AM ET
Is it time for a referendum on the monarchy? I ask that question as it has been interesting watching the Conservatives push stronger ties to the monarchy over the summer, although I don't recall that being part of their election platform.

Inviting Will and Kate to visit with their rock star profile did insure a temporary jump in support for the monarchy, but no one should be fooled into thinking that Canadians want to step back into time.

I suspect most Canadians don't mind the monarchy being in the background as it's not something we deal with on a daily basis, nor do we pay the royal family's bills except when they visit. However, if the Conservatives keep highlighting and trying to reinforce our ties to the monarchy the public will begin to take a closer look at the issue. The government may find that their efforts have the opposite effect to what they hope to accomplish. Sooner or later Canadians will begin to question and evaluate what remains of those ties.
Whether it is a royal visit, reattaching the "Royal" to our air force and navy or the latest government edict to order the Queen's portrait hung in every embassy and mission abroad, the Conservatives are shoving Canada's relationship with the monarchy back onto the front burner. Each of these examples brought forth a fair amount of comment for and against reinforcing our ties to the monarchy.

Canada's relationship with the monarchy does surface from time to time. Back in 1997, then Deputy Prime Minister John Manley suggested abolishing our ties to the monarchy and in 1998 there were hints that the Chretien government might look at our relationship with the monarchy as a millennium project, but it was never pursued. Generally governments have not wanted to provoke discussion on this issue as it is relatively easy for any discussion to become polarized. One only has to look at the Australian experience to see how divisive this issue can become.

Reminding Canadians of our history is a good thing. I am all for teaching Canadians about their history, and there is nothing wrong in insisting that prospective new Canadians have a good understanding of how our past has helped to shape modern day Canada. In fact, all Canadians should have a solid understanding of our historical connections to Britain, France, our Aboriginal history and events that led to the various waves of new immigrants choosing Canada as their destination of choice.

Yet, when all is said and done other than some polls with mixed results, we still don't know if the majority of Canadians want the government to reinforce our ties to the monarchy, stay with the status quo or cut our ties altogether. The reason we don't know is that no one has asked us. Rather than a couple of cabinet ministers deciding that they know best; wouldn't it be better if the government actually asked Canadians what we want?

It is relatively simple to do. A panel can be appointed, or one of the Standing Committees of the House of Commons can hold hearings or perhaps a special joint committee of the House of Commons and Senate can be struck and asked to study, consult and report back.

At least then we would know what Canadians think about our ties to the monarchy. We would know if they should be reinforced, kept low key or even cut. Rather than the government of the day deciding in a vacuum what is best, they would have solid information to base any decisions upon.

It is interesting to note that as far back as 1988 the Reform Party had as a key part of its political platform the need for government's to hold a referendum on issues of national importance. Is Canada's relationship with the monarchy an issue of national importance that deserves a referendum? We don't know the answer to that question because the government won't ask Canadians for their opinion.

Keith Beardsley's political blog can be found at www.atory01.com
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
Yes! Finally.

One reason why the monarchy is not at all relevant is that in England, Europe, Asia, Africa and pre-Columbia America, from top to bottom in most of these societies, they had one common custom, arranged marriages. Parents decided who their children married in the old days-and this practice still occurs in the world. Support the monarchy and you support backward, anti-modern customs. The monarchy no longer represents Canada. Canada has never had arranged marriages, modernity means you have control of your fertility, no one else.

I have no problem with the monarchy, they probably do us more good than harm. People who are obsessed with them should find something useful to occupy their minds. :smile:
 

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Montreal
I have a problem with monarchy. It's a fundamental part of our political system and is representative of who we supposedly are as a nation. That does not leave me indifferent.

For my part, monarchy alone is enough to keep my heart away from Canada as a whole and closer to Quebec. How can I possibly identify to a nation which has as its core value a system which is fundamentally sexist and non secular? British monarchy is based on the principle of male preference cognatic primogeniture. In other words, males are valued as better than females to act as Head of State. If that's not sexist I wonder what it is.

Our Head of State is by default the Supreme Governor of the Church of England which automatically renders any attempt to call Canada secular ridiculous at best.

So yeah I've got issues with monarchy. As much as I respect Canada, I unfortunately can't truly identify to it so long as it holds on to a system that insults my intelligence.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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kelowna bc
Supporting the Monarchy in England has nothing to do with customs or backward practices.
There was a time in Britain's history they decided to invoke a Republic, it lasted five years
and spelled an era of tyranny that has always stayed with the people. There was a nut
case by the name of Oliver Cromwell who took power after they disposed of the king and
withing five years they realized they were better off with the monarchy than without them.
In the end the rid themselves of Cromwell and brought back the King and its been that way
ever since. We are steeped in that tradition its probably the last link with the motherland
as it were. If we dispose of it many feel we will be one step away from becoming part of the
United States. I personally think we could do without the monarchy but its alright to keep
them as well makes no difference and its good for tourists.
I don't think its worth the money to hold a referendum on a subject such as this there are
many more issues of importance before we have that debate, it could prove more of a
problem than the constitution and nobody wants to go there.
 

itsmesean

New Member
Oct 7, 2011
40
0
6
vancouver
Supporting the Monarchy in England has nothing to do with customs or backward practices.
There was a time in Britain's history they decided to invoke a Republic, it lasted five years
and spelled an era of tyranny that has always stayed with the people. There was a nut
case by the name of Oliver Cromwell who took power after they disposed of the king and
withing five years they realized they were better off with the monarchy than without them.
In the end the rid themselves of Cromwell and brought back the King and its been that way
ever since. We are steeped in that tradition its probably the last link with the motherland
as it were. If we dispose of it many feel we will be one step away from becoming part of the
United States. I personally think we could do without the monarchy but its alright to keep
them as well makes no difference and its good for tourists.
I don't think its worth the money to hold a referendum on a subject such as this there are
many more issues of importance before we have that debate, it could prove more of a
problem than the constitution and nobody wants to go there.
What a giant waste of time and money. If we don't have to pay any money just leave it, nobody cares.
 

Sparrow

Council Member
Nov 12, 2006
1,202
23
38
Quebec
As far as I am concerned at the moment there are many other matters much more important on our plate. The Monarchy does not bother us and we do not give them a cent, so let fix our economy and unemployment before we even think of taking on another debate.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
As far as I am concerned at the moment there are many other matters much more important on our plate. The Monarchy does not bother us and we do not give them a cent, so let fix our economy and unemployment before we even think of taking on another debate.

We pay for the royal family when the visit Canada.

Because we have the royal family it keeps us in the Commomwealth, which has the Commonwealth Games. The most recent bid by Halifax in 2007 was $1.7 billion Halifax drops out of Commonwealth Games race - Nova Scotia - CBC News and luckily it went nowhere. But we could accidentally win this fourth rate sporting event one day, defeating powers like Bangladesh, Malaysia, Singapore, Malta, Cyprus, Belize and Barbados. We'll really own the podium here.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
Supporting the Monarchy in England has nothing to do with customs or backward practices.
There was a time in Britain's history they decided to invoke a Republic, it lasted five years
and spelled an era of tyranny that has always stayed with the people. There was a nut
case by the name of Oliver Cromwell who took power after they disposed of the king and
withing five years they realized they were better off with the monarchy than without them.
In the end the rid themselves of Cromwell and brought back the King and its been that way
ever since. We are steeped in that tradition its probably the last link with the motherland
as it were. If we dispose of it many feel we will be one step away from becoming part of the
United States. I personally think we could do without the monarchy but its alright to keep
them as well makes no difference and its good for tourists.
I don't think its worth the money to hold a referendum on a subject such as this there are
many more issues of importance before we have that debate, it could prove more of a
problem than the constitution and nobody wants to go there.
For once we are in total agreement. Maybe not totally but close. I personally support the Monarchy and I know lots of people who do. I also agree with several other posters - it's simply not an important issue at this time.
 

itsmesean

New Member
Oct 7, 2011
40
0
6
vancouver
For once we are in total agreement. Maybe not totally but close. I personally support the Monarchy and I know lots of people who do. I also agree with several other posters - it's simply not an important issue at this time.
not totally, but we can build on that, I just don't see any value in the monarchy at all? maybe it's my age? maybe you could teach me something? I am always eager to learn. thanks.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
not totally, but we can build on that, I just don't see any value in the monarchy at all? maybe it's my age? maybe you could teach me something? I am always eager to learn. thanks.

I guess it depends on what value you place on tradition, on friendly ties to foreign countries. I don't know what the percentage is now but at one time the vast majority of Canadians were of British ancestry. I think in financial terms they benefit us more than they cost us. Also do we want to be a Dominion or a Republic?
 

itsmesean

New Member
Oct 7, 2011
40
0
6
vancouver
I do not think they are trying to change our culture at all, they just want to bring there own with them. If we want to hold our culture and traditions, we need to do some work. Maybe it should start with a list of all the things we want to keep? Every generation seems to lose touch with our culture and traditions, if we want to keep something it's up to us to fight to keep it. Complaining to your friend over a beer does nothing.(I do like beer)
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
Well every month or two, Dumpy posts one of these threads. The sad thing is he/she/it still hasn't learned anything from them.

Reasons to abolish the Monarchy:
- not elected, chosen or selected in any fashion by the people of Canada, for whom the Monarch acts as the Head of State
- not reflective of Canadian values - the Monarchy (as s_lone posted) represents antiquated northern European values such as the involvement of religion in governance and utilizes a sexist system of determination, which are in some cases in opposition to the values of equality espoused by modern democratic governance
- cost - costs related to State visits and upkeep*

* this is listed as a reason to abolish the Monarchy but in fact it is a cost that would exist no matter whom or how the people of Canada choose to fill the office of Head of State

Reasons not to abolish the Monarchy:
- cost. Costs from rewriting the entire legal code of the country, to costs involved in renaming government institutions would be enormous and costs of the constitutional conferences and negotiations that would be needed to resolved in trasforming the system of government. And of course, there is the cost of the referendum itself and any future elections that might be needed to fill the office
- lack of a functional alternative - there really has been no clear alternative to the Monarchy presented by most "republicans" and especially one that demonstrates a clear benefit over an alternative form of governance that would justify the costs involved
- constitutional issues - removing the Monarchy means re-writing the constitution and changing the entire system of government of Canada. As regionally divided as the nation is, this will not happen in our lifetimes: it is more likely the various provinces would secede rather than come to an agreement because the issues are wide ranging and the opinions of the populace are so different. Looking back on Trudeau's act, some of the premiers who signed it have said it was a bad idea after the fact and Quebec still hasn't signed on... and we've had 30 years of mostly "divide and conquer" federal governance exacerbating issues after that (and this doesn't even get into additional issues that have cropped up around native self gov't, etc). This is IMO the biggest reason why this will never be accomplished.

I'm not bound to the idea of the Monarchy one way or the other, but right now I don't see options or even reasons to change (Dumpy refuses to bring any to the table in these periodic threads) that would come close to justifying the cost and risk to the nation... especially at a time when we may be sitting on the edge of another global recession.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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How much of a priority is that issue when there are so many more critical things to deal with at the moment??

....Canada has that link with history and tradition. Being a young nation....... it is important to hold on to some historical elemets

Heck , the US would LOVE to have a link with the monarchy. That might be one reason they have the xtreme celeb status factor and such a hero worship that for the most part is misplaced and totally exaggerated.

We have this link. Why destroy it.......without a really good reason. who is it hurting?? They are nothing but figure heads. If we can't afford their visits.......all we have to do is politely delay them until a more suitable time.

The world / economy and wars are going to hell in a handbasket........and some are concerned about the monarchy.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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How much of a priority is that issue when there are so many more critical things to deal with at the moment??

....Canada has that link with history and tradition. Being a young nation....... it is important to hold on to some historical elemets

Heck , the US would LOVE to have a link with the monarchy. That might be one reason they have the xtreme celeb status factor and such a hero worship that for the most part is misplaced and totally exaggerated.

We have this link. Why destroy it.......without a really good reason. who is it hurting?? They are nothing but figure heads. If we can't afford their visits.......all we have to do is politely delay them until a more suitable time.

The world / economy and wars are going to hell in a handbasket........and some are concerned about the monarchy.

That was a very intelligent post. In only seven lines you included everything to be said about the topic...:canada:;-)
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
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For Canada, perhaps IF the people support such a move. Every poll shows that they do NOT however.

In Britain, no chance that this will happen, at least in the near future. The Monarchy is an institution, and one that the majority of Britain love and cherish. The Monarch does serve a useful purpose, and they bring a LOT more money into the country than is spent on them.

Besides, who would people like you have to bitch about, if you got your way?
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
How much of a priority is that issue when there are so many more critical things to deal with at the moment??

....Canada has that link with history and tradition. Being a young nation....... it is important to hold on to some historical elemets

Heck , the US would LOVE to have a link with the monarchy. That might be one reason they have the xtreme celeb status factor and such a hero worship that for the most part is misplaced and totally exaggerated.

We have this link. Why destroy it.......without a really good reason. who is it hurting?? They are nothing but figure heads. If we can't afford their visits.......all we have to do is politely delay them until a more suitable time.

The world / economy and wars are going to hell in a handbasket........and some are concerned about the monarchy.

8O :roll:
 

WLDB

Senate Member
Jun 24, 2011
6,182
0
36
Ottawa
Doesn't matter if there is a referendum or not. It would be far from legally binding. The constitution has a completely different amendment formula for this that'd be difficult or damn near impossible to get through for this type of change.

We pay for the royal family when the visit Canada.

The tourists wind up paying us back for the expenses several times over.