Judge tosses attempt to limit Afghan report

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,908
11,192
113
Low Earth Orbit
Federal Court tosses bid to limit final report into Afghan prisoner abuse

OTTAWA - The Conservative government has been dealt a major setback in its attempt to limit what a military watchdog puts in his final report on the handling of prisoners captured by Canadian troops in Afghanistan.

A Federal Court has dismissed an application that would, among other things, strike the testimony of diplomat-whistleblower Richard Colvin and block thousands of pages of documents from being used by the Military Police Complaints Commission.

The lawyer for Amnesty International and the B.C. Civil Liberties Association, whose complaint sparked the investigation into prisoner treatment, described the ruling as a victory.

The commission investigation has "fortunately not been derailed," said Paul Champ.

The government argued the final report, which has yet to be written, would essentially pass judgment on the professional conduct of military cops named in an Amnesty International complaint as well as other decision-makers further up the chain of command.

"There is no basis to speculate, as counsel for the Applicants would have it, that the Commission is going to ignore its mandate and start making findings against people it has no authority to make findings against," wrote Justice Yves de Montigny, in a decision released Thursday.

The justice says the report will go through a vetting internally at the Defence Department and could be the subject of further review if the government doesn't like what it reads.

The appeal to the Federal Court tried to force the commission not to look at specific, mostly unflattering, testimony from witnesses critical of the way prisoners were handled.

"Yet to the extent that these witnesses could provide relevant context on the collection, reporting and communication of information on potential detainee abuse, the Commission was justified in hearing from them."

The agency held public hearings into the question of whether military cops in Kandahar knew — or should have known — about the alleged abuse of suspected Taliban prisoners after they were turned over to Afghan authorities.

Justice Department lawyers argued the commission had no authority to call witnesses who were not members of the military, such as Colvin, who said he repeatedly warned both Foreign Affairs and the Defence Department about possible prison abuse.
"The Act does not limit the limit the Commission to summoning only members of the Canadian Forces or employees of DND to appear as witnesses."

The government also claimed that the watchdog, created in the aftermath of the Somalia scandal to monitor the conduct of military police, exceeded its mandate by issuing summonses for documents.

"The Commission must be given some leeway in determining the documents that are relevant for the purposes of its inquiry," de Montigny wrote.

In complying with the order to produce documents on the treatment of prisoners, the government set up a screening process to determine what records it considered relevant to the investigation — something the judge said was off-side.

"At the end of the day: it is for the Commission, not the government to determine ultimately what documents are relevant to its inquiry," said the 55-page decision.

"If it were otherwise, the Commission would be at the mercy of the body it is supposed to investigate. That was clearly not the intent of Parliament."

New Democrat defence critic Jack Harris said the Harper government has spent an extraordinary amount of time and money trying to bury the truth.

"It's another example and shows how persistent the government has been," he said.

"They've stonewalled and as long as they have the majority power in this Parliament, it seems they're going to keep this matter under wraps."
News from © The Canadian Press, 2011
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
If they even knew what was happening to those prisoners after they were handed over than they are just as guilty as those that did the abuse.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
If they even knew what was happening to those prisoners after they were handed over than they are just as guilty as those that did the abuse.

Anyone with an ounce of thinking would know full well what happens in those prisons - Bribery for one where Taliban turned over are captured again by Canadian Soldiers - to all the other shxt that happens in these countries.

Anyone that is surprised is plainly dumb.

Blaming the Soldier is the easy way out for you now isn't it.
Fits your personal belief system. Whatever the fuk that is.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,282
479
83
59
Alberta
If they even knew what was happening to those prisoners after they were handed over than they are just as guilty as those that did the abuse.

Bullsh!t. Total utter unequivocal bullsh!t.

This just more attempt to smear our troops for political gain.

F_cking assholes. We should have just shot them in the head instead of handing them over.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
Anyone with an ounce of thinking would know full well what happens in those prisons - Bribery for one where Taliban turned over are captured again by Canadian Soldiers - to all the other shxt that happens in these countries.

Anyone that is surprised is plainly dumb.

Blaming the Soldier is the easy way out for you now isn't it.
Fits your personal belief system. Whatever the fuk that is.

Yes it is widely known Afghanistan is medieval, so you get medieval practices. Just like England had when it was medieval. Let's grow up here, the old world is still quite old and terrible. Surprise here is feigned all around.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
If they even knew what was happening to those prisoners after they were handed over than they are just as guilty as those that did the abuse.

You do not play the part of a shocked Virgin well at all. Suddenly full of your so called morals now. Yesiree - Whew - They are finally not talking about the Holy Mother Church.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
Bullsh!t. Total utter unequivocal bullsh!t.

This just more attempt to smear our troops for political gain.

F_cking assholes. We should have just shot them in the head instead of handing them over.

That's partly true, but that's what happens when you keep prolonging a war you cannot win and do it for domestic purposes. You get bitten in the ass sometimes, like now.

Canada could have left Afghanistan nine and half years ago, the UN mandate was to turf the Taliban, mission accomplished. The Afghan people got their old warlords back and they hate them. So the civil war rages on and on.

Al-queda was the enemy, not the Taliban. They are not the same, the Taliban has no argument with the West.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Anyone with an ounce of thinking would know full well what happens in those prisons - Bribery for one where Taliban turned over are captured again by Canadian Soldiers - to all the other shxt that happens in these countries.

Anyone that is surprised is plainly dumb.

Blaming the Soldier is the easy way out for you now isn't it.
Fits your personal belief system. Whatever the fuk that is.


Did I say I was surprised? Not surprised at all. Canada COULD have kept the prisoners captured rather than handing them over to the Afghani's. Canada COULD have gotten outa dodge a long time ago. Instead, we are still there. Canada knowingly handed off captured prisoners to be tortured.

Bullsh!t. Total utter unequivocal bullsh!t.

This just more attempt to smear our troops for political gain.

F_cking assholes. We should have just shot them in the head instead of handing them over.

What exactley is bullshyte? The fact that Canada knowingly handed over captured prisoners to be tortured? I agree, complete bullshyte. I would have hoped that as a Country we were better than that. Obviously I have too high an expectation from our politicians and armed forces.

You do not play the part of a shocked Virgin well at all. Suddenly full of your so called morals now. Yesiree - Whew - They are finally not talking about the Holy Mother Church.


Again, where is the "shock" in my statement? There is none. As for you bringing up the Holy Roman Catholic Church, obviously you have no REAL rejoinder against these acts perpetrated by those supposedly representing our Country.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,282
479
83
59
Alberta
That's partly true, but that's what happens when you keep prolonging a war you cannot win and do it for domestic purposes. You get bitten in the ass sometimes, like now.

Canada could have left Afghanistan nine and half years ago, the UN mandate was to turf the Taliban, mission accomplished. The Afghan people got their old warlords back and they hate them. So the civil war rages on and on.

Al-queda was the enemy, not the Taliban. They are not the same, the Taliban has no argument with the West.

Look you best stick to jamming your foot in your mouth over Indian Status and Don Cherry taking on a third front will leave you toothless.

What exactley is bullshyte? The fact that Canada knowingly handed over captured prisoners to be tortured? I agree, complete bullshyte. I would have hoped that as a Country we were better than that. Obviously I have too high an expectation from our politicians and armed forces..

No, you have a very naive view. How do you think the Russians treated their German Prisoners. Should we have packed up our toys and went home.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
Bullsh!t. Total utter unequivocal bullsh!t.

This just more attempt to smear our troops for political gain.

F_cking assholes. We should have just shot them in the head instead of handing them over.


They might have preferred that to vicegrips on their nuts...........................or whatever.

just sayin.

Nasty business, this war stuff. Wish they'd quit.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Did I say I was surprised? Not surprised at all. Canada COULD have kept the prisoners captured rather than handing them over to the Afghani's. Canada COULD have gotten outa dodge a long time ago. Instead, we are still there. Canada knowingly handed off captured prisoners to be tortured.


No, you implied that Soldiers took the decision to do this. Wake the fuk up.

NATO did not want to run a prison. Again Wake the fuk up.

Again, where is the "shock" in my statement? There is none. As for you bringing up the Holy Roman Catholic Church, obviously you have no REAL rejoinder against these acts perpetrated by those supposedly representing our Country.

You defend the Holy Catholic Church when they protect child rapists - Gotta love how you interpret religion - Again - Wake the fuk up.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,282
479
83
59
Alberta
They might have preferred that to vicegrips on their nuts...........................or whatever.

just sayin.

Nasty business, this war stuff. Wish they'd quit.

Yeah they might have. The problem I have with this is that we can't control what the Afghans do with their prisoners. Pure political posturing.

Having a son who is serving and a Veteran of this war I'll be glad when they quit to, but I don't expect my countrymen to hang his ass out to dry for doing what his Country asked of him.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Again, where is the "shock" in my statement? There is none. As for you bringing up the Holy Roman Catholic Church, obviously you have no REAL rejoinder against these acts perpetrated by those supposedly representing our Country.

You clearly condone the RCC actions - As such you are complicit. They hide Child Rapists - Fact - proven time and time and time and yes time again, in country after country after country.

Yet you defend the Holy |Mother Church - We both read the bible - guess you have a different way of looking at criminal acts - Proven time and time again.

You slam Soldiers without fact - Facts - Guess they do not apply when it fits your limited and biased opinion.

I have facts.You do not.

You are nothing but an enabler by protecting the RCC. Slime, pure fukin slime. So never ever again talk to me or others about morals as you are severely lacking in a moral compass.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
No, you have a very naive view. How do you think the Russians treated their German Prisoners. Should we have packed up our toys and went home.


Really? That's your line? Personally, I would hope that we were above any of that. Personally, I would hope we don't take our cue from the lowest common denominator. Personally, I would hope that we are well above our enemy.

and as far as coming home, I would very much prefer that we had NO offensive capabilities at all.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,282
479
83
59
Alberta
The army can't use the Bushism, "No one pushed a report in my face to read about the horrid history of the Old World." Ignorance is not bliss, and you can't use that defence in politics. Whether you think you're a moron or not.

Trust me, I don't think I'm a moron, but I most certainly know that you are.

Head back to your Fire Don Cherry thread Dump, you're in way over your head here.

Really? That's your line? Personally, I would hope that we were above any of that. Personally, I would hope we don't take our cue from the lowest common denominator. Personally, I would hope that we are well above our enemy.

and as far as coming home, I would very much prefer that we had NO offensive capabilities at all.

My line?

Goober raises an interesting point. Trying to stick this crap on our soldiers is no different than me accusing you of being complicit in Catholic Priest Pedophilia. It's all bullsh!t. The soldiers I have served with and trained, my family, my friends have always been above that, but they cannot, nor should the be held accountable for that which they were not involved.

Further to that, if we are going to start attaching the actions of other Countries Armies abuses to our troops and politicians I move that we arrest and detain. Liberal Senator (and General Ret) Romeo Dallaire for his complicity in the Rwanda Massacre, Prime Minister Jean Chretien for sending soldiers into the Balkans and failing to give them a mandate to prevent ethnic cleansing and mass murder.

And on and on it goes...
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
If they even knew what was happening to those prisoners after they were handed over than they are just as guilty as those that did the abuse.
If you keep putting money in the collection plate, you're as guilty as the priests that diddle kids or those that protect hem.
 

relic

Council Member
Nov 29, 2009
1,408
3
38
Nova Scotia
To me,it's not that it happened,the handover,torture thing,but that fat steve and his gaggle of yes men knew about it,condoned it and lied about it.I don't believe a word that bunch says.