Redefining pedophilia

[Locutus]

Excuse me, those that are simply 'minor-attracted'.


We usually hear pedophilia talked about in terms of mental illness -- if not evil -- but Aug. 17 a motley crew of self-identified "minor-attracted persons" and mental health professionals have gathered in Boston to talk about it as a sexual identity. At hand is an issue deeply important to both groups: the revision of the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia.


The sponsor of the event, B4U-ACT, a support group aimed at preventing pedophiles from acting on their attraction to children, hopes to influence the relevant entry in the upcoming revision of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Understandably, the idea of pedophiles helping to define their own mental illness has some unnerved. Earlier this week, the Daily Caller wrote about the event in a piece headlined, "Conference aims to normalize pedophilia." It's true that many in the community believe that attraction to pubescent or pre-pubescent children isn't a mental illness at all, but the symposium itself has the stated aim of raising awareness about fundamental problems with the proposed revision to the DSM's entry on pedophilia.




more...


Redefining pedophilia with pedophiles' help - Sexual abuse - Salon.com

Academic conference seeks to normalize pedophilia | LifeSiteNews.com



Lilley and Robson had a good chat about it tonight as well.

 

[earth_as_one]

I have no problems with what people think or how they feel ...without limits. That includes people contemplating every serious crime imaginable including pedophilia. We cannot control what we think, but we must all control what we do. If you can't control yourself from committing a crime or you feel tempted to commit a crime you should seek help.

I believe pedophilia is a form of sexual orientation, like being gay or straight. People can't control their sexual orientation, its part of who they are. But because of the harm to the individual and society which would result from allowing pedophiles to act on their sexual impulses, pedophilia acts must remain illegal. Children must be allowed to be children until they are ready to be adults. In Canada, the age of consent recently changed to 16. But special protections exist until the age of 18. I fully support this law:
Frequently Asked Questions: Age of Consent to Sexual Activity

At the same time, I also support pedophiles or "minor attracted" persons being able to legally create and access pedophile oriented pornography or other forms of sexual gratification as long as it does not involve children or violate the above law regarding age of consent and exploitation of young people. I can think of two ways this could be achieved without violating the law referenced above.

1) Animations depicting children in sexual situations (currently illegal). I support all laws which protect children from harm and pedophiles. However since animation does not involve children and is pure fantasy, I disagree with its illegality. The law which criminalize "depictions" of sexual acts involving children has nothing to do with protecting real children from harm. Its about criminalizing pedophile "thought" and therefore unjustified IMO. I am against controlling what people think. I'm willing to debate this. Any takers? Please try to be polite. I know people have strong opinions regarding pedophilia and I respect that. To be clear, I am not advocating pedophilia or harming children in any way. I am saying that animations which might be realistic but ultimately don't involve children aren't harmful to children if only viewed by adults. I am aware depictions of pedophile acts are illegal, but I've never heard a good argument in support of this law. To me it sounds like people trying to impose their morality on others without just cause. I could be convinced otherwise if someone has a sound logical argument in support of the current law. So far, I have yet to hear a solid argument in support of the current law criminalizing depictions of children in sexual situations. I am open to be being convinced otherwise.

2) Women with Turner syndrome or other similar developmental problems (women who never enter puberty due to a genetic abnormality. This is a legal gray area, but probably legal) and the male equivalent of these syndromes. Since these people are adults, pedophilia or age of consent laws don't apply. These people look like children, but they are consenting adults.

Anyone want to debate this?

 

[In Between Man]

I believe pedophilia is a form of sexual orientation, like being gay or straight. People can't control their sexual orientation, its part of who they are.

Tell that to a molested or raped child especially one that endures it for years. And I don't give a crap that in the next sentence you try to cover yourself with "but because of the harm to the victim...".

Your dangerous way of thinking is what leads to the decay of society.

 

[earth_as_one]

I expected such a response from people who can't read. Please quote where I advocated molesting or raping children. Please read carefully what I wrote rather than what you think I wrote. You are obviously missing my point. I am not advocating harming a child. I think we both agree that anyone who harms a child should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

My point is that people should be free to think whatever they want. Only their actions should be illegal. I am against criminalizing thought including pedophilia, murder, embezzlement.... All thought should be legal. Only actions should be criminalized. Are we on the same page yet????

 

[In Between Man]

To me it sounds like people trying to impose their morality on others without just cause.

And your disgusting philosophy about how we should accommodate pedophiles is an example of YOU imposing your low-road moral relativism on the rest of us. !!!

Any time you take the position on "how we should be doing something" or "the law (which affects us all) should be this" you are in fact taking a moral position. And you wishing to impose this garbage on us while at the same time claiming that others who stand on the age-old notion that pedophilla is objectively wrong, makes you a hypocrite.

I could be convinced otherwise if someone has a sound logical argument in support of the current law.

You can never be convinced by logic. I'm talking to the person who supports the people who cheered, danced, and laughed at the murder of 3000 people on September 11th.

Anyone want to debate this?

Your arguments defeat themselves. No challenge.

Please quote where I advocated molesting or raping children.

I know EXACTLY how your trying to justify it in your brain. You're trying to have it both ways. It's called the "both-and" logic. Pedophilla is wrong on one hand, but excusable on the other.

As opposed to the truth which is that pedophillic thoughts, fantasies, and actions are all objectively wrong.

 

[earth_as_one]

You've completely missed my point. Not only aren't we on the same page, we aren't in the same book or even the same library. Please try to understand my point rather than argue against positions I don't support.

My point is about freedom of thought and expression including pedophilia (ideas), not freedom to abuse children (actions).

I am talking about ideas... thoughts or suggestions as to a possible course of actions.

I am not talking about actions...The fact or process of doing something.

Maybe if we remove sex from the equation, you might not be so blinded by rage that you might understand my point.

Currently creating animations and movies which depict the murder of children is legal unlike the rape of children which is illegal. In fact murdering children doesn't even get a "Restricted" rating. If these thoughts of illegal actions are considered harmless and depicting them is legal, then how can we justify criminalizing depictions of children in sexual situations?

Personally I find depictions of violence offensive. But I'm not about to argue in support of criminalizing all movies which depict gratuitous violence. If I thought this way, then I'd be trying to impose my version of morality on others. Instead, I'll choose not to see the movie.

I suggest that if you have a problem with seeing depictions of children involved in sexual situations ( a mainstream viewpoint with which I agree), then you can choose not to see the movie. But since you are saying that others should not have the right to produce or see these types of movies, then its you who is restricting the actions of others and it would be you who is imposing your version of morality on others..

 

[talloola]

I believe pedophilia is a form of sexual orientation, like being gay or straight. People can't control their sexual orientation, its part of who they are. But because of the harm to the individual and society which would result from allowing pedophiles to act on their sexual impulses, pedophilia acts must remain illegal. Children must be allowed to be children until they are ready to be adults. In Canada, the age of consent recently changed to 16. But special protections exist until the age 2) Women with Turner syndrome or other similar developmental problems (women who never enter puberty due to a genetic abnormality. This is a legal gray area, but probably legal) and the male equivalent of these syndromes. Since these people are adults, pedophilia or age of consent laws don't apply. These people look like children, but they are consenting adults.

Anyone want to debate this?

a form of sexual orientation? That particular form of sexual orientation is very dangerous, as it
is like a form of 'predator behavior' toward 'our' children, and 'we' will protect our children just
like a mother lion protecting her young from other animals.
I would fry all of their sorry asses if I could make the decision.

gays don't try to molest children, nor do straits, 'because of their sexual orientation', but pedophiles do.
we lock up mentally disturbed people who hurt others, we don't excuse them because that is their
form of behavior, all pedophiles should be locked up, and throw away the key, they are a filthy menace
to society.

Our children must be protected above all others, because of their innocence and purity, and they must
be allowed to reach adulthood without the scars of monsters like that.

The fact that the pedophiles are trying to group themselves into a society of regular citizens who are
behaving in a way that is normal for them is disgusting.

half of them should dress up like children, and the other half can molest 'them', use the sickening behavior
on each other and leave our children alone.

 

[earth_as_one]

Another person who can't read.

I am not arguing in support of the act of pedophilia. I agree with pedophilia laws and I support "frying" the sorry asses of anyone who would harm a child in any way.

That's not the debate. Can we please move on to my point??? I am debating the legality of thoughts, not acts.

I support all freedom of thought including the depictions of children in sexual situations as long as it does not involve or harm children in any way.

I am not saying that I support freedom of action and there is a huge difference.

"half of them should dress up like children, and the other half can molest 'them', use the sickening behavior
on each other and leave our children alone."....

Oh so close... you almost understood my point but then you just missed it. Let's work with your example which is illegal.

Depicting children in sexual situations in a movie is illegal even if the all the actors, including the ones dressed as children are consenting adults. Do you agree with this law and why?

 

[WLDB]

If pedophilia is a sexual orientation then murder must be a sport.

This convention may have good intentions, but it goes a bit too far. Perhaps more therapists and other preventative methods should be in place to help prevent a person from acting on any sort of criminal desires, but trying to make the crime itself seem ok is too far.

 

[earth_as_one]

ARRRGGGGG! Can't anyone here read!!!!!

The convention is not about making the crime of pedophilia "ok". Its about classifying pedophilia as a sexual orientation or identity, rather than a sickness. That change would not affect the legal status of pedophilia.

Regarding my point which no one seems to get, I'm talking about decriminalizing thoughts, not actions. Most depictions of illegal acts are legal. Pedophilia is the sole exception.

Depicting a murder (thought) is legal. Committing the act of murder is illegal. A movie can legally depict a murder.

Depicting pedophilia or children in sexual situations (thought) is as illegal as the act of pedophilia. A movie cannot legally depict a pedophile sexually abusing a child. But its completely legal for a movie to depict a child's murder.

Children can legally have sexual relations with other children. Depicting children in sexual situations with other children is illegal. In other words, depicting this legal activity is illegal even if it doesn't involve children. An animated movie depicting children in a sexual situation is illegal, even if the depicted sexual situation is legal.

I support finding ways for pedophiles to pursue their sexual orientation as long as it does not involve children. In the second post in this thread I gave two examples of ways that pedophiles could pursue their sexual orientation that DO NOT INVOLVE children. The first was related to animations (pure fantasy) depicting children in sexual situations which is currently illegal. The second involved adults with genetic abnormalities which makes them appear to be children. I DO NOT advocate any sexual acts involving children. Instead I advocate pedophiles seeking ways to get sexual gratification which do not involve children.

Do you get my point now?

 

[petros]

There more than one versions of an attraction to youthful look without being a pedophile.Take the classic "school girl uniform" as an example. Even if your 30 year old wife or partner dressing up in school uniform it's still acting out fanatasies of having sex with a minor. What about those who dress up as babies and **** their diapers and drink formula? That too is exploitation of the youth through imagery. Perrsonally I like women of refinemt and class.When Shelly, my wife graduated with her Phd in psychology we went on a shopping spree settng her up with really nice busniess suits and lingere to wear undeneath. She attended an all girls high school that wore uniforms but for me it didn't float my boat like a nice pair of lace hip hugger stockings and sharp suit drive me wild. Same goes when she wears that Lulu Lemon stuff that I refer as her "dress sweats" She turns 40 in October and still looks like she is in her mid 20s. I'm one lucky guy to have a woman like that

Tell that to a molested or raped child especially one that endures it for years. And I don't give a crap that in the next sentence you try to cover yourself with "but because of the harm to the victim...".

Your dangerous way of thinking is what leads to the decay of society.

Well bud it's a fact not an opinion.If you don't think it's a mental health issue then WTF is it?

If pedophilia is a sexual orientation then murder must be a sport.

This convention may have good intentions, but it goes a bit too far. Perhaps more therapists and other preventative methods should be in place to help prevent a person from acting on any sort of criminal desires, but trying to make the crime itself seem ok is too far.

It's no sport.Nine times out of ten those who do partake in pedophilia were once vitims themselves. Attempted murder victims also have a proprensity of becoming violent as well thanks to PTSD.

 

[Cliffy]

I see that for many this is a very emotional issue, which is not a good thing as logic takes a hike on issues like this. As Petros said, pedophiles are usually victims of pedophilia. It is a mental health issue stemming from emotional trauma. Prevention and education will go a long way toward breaking the cycle.

Like it or not, pedophilia has been an integral part of most cultures throughout history. Getting hysterical about it is not going to make it go away, nor is locking up all the perps. Pedophilia knows no class, religious or racial boundaries. It is a psychological response to emotional trauma. It needs to be viewed as a sickness and treated as such. Trying to sweep it under the table using our legal system will not going to solve the problem.

 

[SLM]

Heterosexual, homosexual, bi-sexual or asexual. One is oriented towards the opposite, same, both or neither gender. We only have the two. Even a pedophile will be oriented towards in one of the above ways.

To suggest pedophilia is a kind of sexual orientation is to confuse sexual orientation with sexual gratification and compulsion.

No pedophilia is no more a sexual orientation than necrophilia is. They have way more in common with OCD than sexual identity or association.

 

[AbtFet]

If pedophilia is a sexual orientation then murder must be a sport.

murder is a sport. if you're in the u.s military.

 

[SLM]

murder is a sport. if you're in the u.s military.

Really? Pedophilia isn't a contentious enough topic for ya?

 

[taxslave]

Tell that to a molested or raped child especially one that endures it for years. And I don't give a crap that in the next sentence you try to cover yourself with "but because of the harm to the victim...".

Your dangerous way of thinking is what leads to the decay of society.

EAO is right in that pedophilia is a form of sexual identity much like homosexuality.
I don't agree with his ideas on controlling it though. My preference would be to eliminate them from society permanently just to protect kids.

If pedophilia is a sexual orientation then murder must be a sport.

This convention may have good intentions, but it goes a bit too far. Perhaps more therapists and other preventative methods should be in place to help prevent a person from acting on any sort of criminal desires, but trying to make the crime itself seem ok is too far.

For some murder is a sport. Watch the doc on the green river murders. Some people just have severe wiring problems. Not that this makes it right it is just a fact of life.
The question is what do we do with them.

 

[mentalfloss]

Paedophilia can be avoided.

Just have sex with pre-pubescent looking adults.

 

[Goober]

I believe pedophilia is a form of sexual orientation, like being gay or straight. People can't control their sexual orientation, its part of who they are. But because of the harm to the individual and society which would result from allowing pedophiles to act on their sexual impulses, pedophilia acts must remain illegal.

What is sick is your belief on orientation.

1st - It is a sexual orientation- Really - That is an insult to those that were oppressed, killed. tortured for being gay - That is sexual orientation - Not raping children.

 

[AbtFet]

I notice people making pedophile synonymous with rapist, I wonder if it's accurate.

 

[Colpy]

I notice people making pedophile synonymous with rapist, I wonder if it's accurate.

If acted upon in any way, it certainly is......sex with a person too young to consent is rape.