Torture: crimes with impunity

[JBeee]

Human Rights Watch reports that there are solid grounds to investigate George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld

• Editorial
• The Guardian, Tuesday 12 July 2011

It is often said that only by confronting the past can nations construct a better future. Germany, Spain, Argentina, Chile and South Africa have put themselves through the wringer of historical self-examination. Putin's Russia has yet to. It is, though, easier to point the finger at dark episodes embedded in the past than to apply the same scrutiny to recent history. To be both liberal and democratic is to be axiomatically part of a club that examines itself. Not so, argues Human Rights Watch. Exhibit A? Barack Obama's record in investigating the allegations of detainee abuse authorised by his predecessor, George W Bush.

The wrongdoing of that administration is today broadly, although not universally, acknowledged. Waterboarding has been declared as torture by the attorney general Eric Holder. Enhanced interrogation techniques are no longer used. The CIA has closed down its programme of secret detention centres. Unidentified planes no longer land at odd hours at Prestwick Airport with unknown human cargoes (although rendition-type questions have been raised about a Somali interrogated aboard a US warship for two months). There are still 171 detainees in Guantánamo Bay, and military commissions still exist, but in general it is fair to say the most egregious practises of the Bush war on terror have ceased. Far from enhancing security, the wisdom in Washington today is that these practises endangered it .

The crimes are there for all to see, but the people who ordered them, sanctioned them and bent the Geneva conventions for them, walk free. Two weeks ago, the search for accountability hit the buffers when Mr Holder announced that a two-year review by a specially appointed prosecutor determined that any further investigation into the mistreatment of nearly 100 detainees was not warranted. Criminal proceedings will be launched only about the deaths of two suspects in CIA custody. This is no surprise as the probe was limited to unauthorised acts, and could not examine authorised acts like waterboarding.

HRW today says that there are solid grounds to investigate George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and George Tenet for authorising torture and war crimes and that the roles of the former national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and former attorney general John Ashcroft should also be examined. Nothing will happen in the US, where the rule of law has been rebooted rather than applied. But this important report could provide grounds for the arrest of suspects abroad under universal jurisdiction. Political inconvenience should not be confused with criminal liability. If it is, justice is for other nations to apply.

 

[taxslave]

Good luck with that one. Your news source is about as useful as Faux news.

 

[Colpy]

The absolute proof that international law is a joke.

They will never be charged, because the united States is the most powerful nation on earth.

And I believe they are guilty.

 

[JBeee]

Prisoners in thier own home (country).

So long as America harbours it`s own war criminals, it`s no better than any other country that does.

`most powerful nation on earth`? lol

 

[Mowich]

Prisoners in thier own home (country).

So long as America harbours it`s own war criminals, it`s no better than any other country that does.

`most powerful nation on earth`? lol

Maybe someone could hire those ex-Nazi hunters to do a scoop and grab mission.

 

[Colpy]

Prisoners in thier own home (country).

So long as America harbours it`s own war criminals, it`s no better than any other country that does.

`most powerful nation on earth`? lol

Not dealing with reality are you?????

There's a surpise.

America is MORE than capable of militarily defeating the next three most powerful nations on earth at the same time.

 

[WLDB]

Not dealing with reality are you?????

There's a surpise.

America is MORE than capable of militarily defeating the next three most powerful nations on earth at the same time.

Destroying the military, probably. But actually conquering those three countries...unlikely. Given the recent track record of the US.

 

[JBeee]

two or three briefcase-sized nuclear bombs set off in the appropiate zones would be enough to bring the big ole usa to it`s knees and worse.

Not dealing with reality are you?????

There's a surpise.

America is MORE than capable of militarily defeating the next three most powerful nations on earth at the same time.

 

[petros]

America is MORE than capable of militarily defeating the next three most powerful nations on earth at the same time.

The only way to do that is by taken out all the civilians along with the military.

That makes them not the most powerful but the most dangerous. Rendering and conquering a region that you cant inhabit isnt power.

Power is people based not danger based.

We donèt consider North Korea powerful because they have nukes. We consider them dangerous. Same coin. Sadly.

 

[YukonJack]

Destroying the military, probably. But actually conquering those three countries...unlikely. Given the recent track record of the US.

The United States defeated Germany and Japan, both, rather resoundingly, but conquer? No, more like rebuild and make them strong.

Conquerors stay and rule. They lord over and dominate the government of the conquered.

The United States did nothing of the sort.

They stayed on their military bases only, and other than leaving their music, movies, books, tons of food, they desired no part in running the affairs of either Germany or Japan.

Calling America conquerors and likening them conquerors of the past is the height of uninformed idiocy.

As a youngster in the 1956 Revolution in Hungary, let me say that then we would have been grateful and happy about an American 'invasion'.

 

[petros]

The United States defeated Germany and Japan, both, rather resoundingly, but
conquer?

The entire British Empire, Soviet Union, Africans and Chinese sat that one out?

 

[YukonJack]

The entire British Empire, Soviet Union, Africans and Chinese sat that one out?

My response was to WLDB's reference to America.

And to validate my response as far as 'conquering' is concerned, the Soviet Union - unlike America - stayed in conquered countries and affected the greatest, as in WORST, terror in the history of the world. Gulags. "Elections" for an only party (Communist) or else. Robbing conquered countries of their resources. Forcing agricultural collectives. Teaching children to spy on their parents, siblings and teachers.

When has America done things like that? And when did America NOT pay for any natural resources of countries which they 'conquered'?

And just to stay on topic, TORTURE. The puppets of the Soviets in conquered countries got away with torture, murder and every conceivable abuse of the Geneva Convention or the Human Rights Declaration of the United Nations, until fate caught up with them in 1989 and subsequent years.

Let someone show me some example where America comes anywhere near to the atrocities of Communists.

 

[petros]

My response was to WLDB's reference to America.

And to validate my response as far as 'conquering' is concerned, the Soviet Union - unlike America - stayed in conquered countries and affected the greatest, as in WORST, terror in the history of the world. Gulags. "Elections" for an only party (Communist) or else. Robbing conquered countries of their resources. Forcing agricultural collectives. Teaching children to spy on their parents, siblings and teachers.

When has America done things like that? And when did America NOT pay for any natural resources of countries which they 'conquered'?

You don't need remind me YukonJack. The Commies did indeed stay put while Western Europe went Socialist and yet their help with Japan was welcomed.

They used the Bill Of Rights FDR drafteded and tried to get past Congress to base the new German Constitution on afterwards. Now they have more rights and freedoms than Americans do. It is no wonder they've kept it together through paying reparations and then taking on the debt and social needs of the freed E Germans when the Union Socialists brought the wall down.

Japan. Another nation that went from Empire to FDR Socialist based state.

South Korea, ditto!

 

[Colpy]

two or three briefcase-sized nuclear bombs set off in the appropiate zones would be enough to bring the big ole usa to it`s knees and worse.

Ahhhh....the USA being able to destroy the next three largest militarys in the world simultaneously does not consider nuclear weapons.....conventional only.

Two or three nuclear weapons set off in the USA would just piss them off.......and that would be unwise. When watching the WTC fall on 9-11, I told my wife: "This is the Americans. Someone is going to pay, big-time".

Afghanistan did, the Taliban did, al Queda did. Islamists around the world did. Bin Laden did. So did Iraq, simply by being an enemy of the USA.

Set off nukes within the USA, and i Promise you, a large area of land somewhere out there will become a radio-active glass amusement park.

 

[petros]

Two or three nuclear weapons set off in the USA would just piss them off.......and that would be unwise. When watching the WTC fall on 9-11, I told my wife: "This is the Americans. Someone is going to pay, big-time"

All you need to do is get a small one high enough over the USA and it's lights out for a minimum of three months and any electronics you did have would all be useless.

That has been known since "Starfish Prime" almost 50 years ago.

 

[Colpy]

All you need to do is get a small one high enough over the USA and it's lights out for a minimum of three months and any electronics you did have would all be useless.

That has been known since "Starfish Prime" almost 50 years ago.

Who hasn't heard of EMP???

Even if that knocked out the American ability to respond with siloed ICBMs (very doubtful, shielded, you know)...........there are enough submarine borne nukes to fry a lot of territory.

 

[petros]

Who hasn't heard of EMP???

Even if that knocked out the American ability to respond with siloed ICBMs (very doubtful, shielded, you know)...........there are enough submarine borne nukes to fry a lot of territory.

A lot of good that does while everyone starves or freezes to death.

 

[taxslave]

A lot of good that does while everyone starves or freezes to death.

That would be one way to create true equality in the world. One of the few predicaments that money won't get you out of.

 

[petros]

That would be one way to create true equality in the world. One of the few predicaments that money won't get you out of.

Common sense, a firearm or bow and a 20L pail of dried beans will though.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Human Rights Watch reports that there are solid grounds to investigate George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld

• Editorial
• The Guardian, Tuesday 12 July 2011

It is often said that only by confronting the past can nations construct a better future. Germany, Spain, Argentina, Chile and South Africa have put themselves through the wringer of historical self-examination. Putin's Russia has yet to. It is, though, easier to point the finger at dark episodes embedded in the past than to apply the same scrutiny to recent history. To be both liberal and democratic is to be axiomatically part of a club that examines itself. Not so, argues Human Rights Watch. Exhibit A? Barack Obama's record in investigating the allegations of detainee abuse authorised by his predecessor, George W Bush.

The wrongdoing of that administration is today broadly, although not universally, acknowledged. Waterboarding has been declared as torture by the attorney general Eric Holder. Enhanced interrogation techniques are no longer used. The CIA has closed down its programme of secret detention centres. Unidentified planes no longer land at odd hours at Prestwick Airport with unknown human cargoes (although rendition-type questions have been raised about a Somali interrogated aboard a US warship for two months). There are still 171 detainees in Guantánamo Bay, and military commissions still exist, but in general it is fair to say the most egregious practises of the Bush war on terror have ceased. Far from enhancing security, the wisdom in Washington today is that these practises endangered it .

The crimes are there for all to see, but the people who ordered them, sanctioned them and bent the Geneva conventions for them, walk free. Two weeks ago, the search for accountability hit the buffers when Mr Holder announced that a two-year review by a specially appointed prosecutor determined that any further investigation into the mistreatment of nearly 100 detainees was not warranted. Criminal proceedings will be launched only about the deaths of two suspects in CIA custody. This is no surprise as the probe was limited to unauthorised acts, and could not examine authorised acts like waterboarding.

HRW today says that there are solid grounds to investigate George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and George Tenet for authorising torture and war crimes and that the roles of the former national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and former attorney general John Ashcroft should also be examined. Nothing will happen in the US, where the rule of law has been rebooted rather than applied. But this important report could provide grounds for the arrest of suspects abroad under universal jurisdiction. Political inconvenience should not be confused with criminal liability. If it is, justice is for other nations to apply.

Good article. But nothing will happen to the culprits in question. They along with the rest of the gang that covers for them or is involved .......feel they are exceptional (in their minds).....and don't need to comply to any law. In fact they make up their own laws as they go along and to fit their own power oriented agenda. This gang of criminals denounces the validity of international law UNTIL it is useful to them to bring some other bloke under its jurisdiction.

They may get away with the obvious crimes. (yes TORTURE , enhanced interrogation, the Iraq invasion and , and, and.....is ILLEGAL........no matter what they tell you. ) but there are enough people on the planet that see the truth and have no regard for them and the USG as a result of that. Politics as usual.......but only to a point and with a lot more mistrust , and caution. What is truly sad.......is that the us does not have the gonads to bring their own to the justice they warrant. They give the most vile of people the pass. There is no legal , moral or ethical standard in the US now. Anyone that disagrees, please present facts that would indicate your case.

Oh , and to say , that the US is not as bad as Russia or some other torturing country is pretty lame. How bad does it have to get before you take it seriously ??? Keep giving the US the pass and it will continue on the same path , but only get worse. The past decade has shown that. Does anyone know what goes on in those secret prisons?? There is more "secrecy" surrounding the US activities now than ever before. Is that how a progressive, dynamic, "wealthy" modern "free" nation operates???