SCC Decision on Consent

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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This is weird.

The Supreme Court has ruled that consent must be an ongoing state of mind...it comes from a case where a woman, who regularly engaged in choking/sex, complained about what her partner did to her while she was unconscious.

So here's a warning to men - you must not participate in any choking type sex, because the woman can legally change her mind after the fact, and you can be charged with assault.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Well I'm going to start bringing a sexy lawyer babe to bed with us just to keep it nice a legal! The wife will just have to understand it's for her protection too.
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
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Personally, I'd stay the hell away from any guy that got turned on by choking on woman. Dude's got to be ****ed in the head.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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Personally, I'd stay the hell away from any guy that got turned on by choking on woman. Dude's got to be ****ed in the head.
It is very common practice though I haven't heard much about being choked out. It apparently increases the intensity of orgasm.

Now I am wondering what the ruling would be if the woman was choking the man? Am I the only one who believes the SCC might just have said 'you asked for it' in that circumstance. I don't know for sure if they would but am just seeing if others think there may have been a different standard applied in a reverse situation.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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This is weird.

The Supreme Court has ruled that consent must be an ongoing state of mind...it comes from a case where a woman, who regularly engaged in choking/sex, complained about what her partner did to her while she was unconscious.

So here's a warning to men - you must not participate in any choking type sex, because the woman can legally change her mind after the fact, and you can be charged with assault.
Got a link?
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
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The defendant in this case has been three times convicted of domestic violence. Twice against the woman he is now convicted of raping. He is not allowed to see his son without supervision.

Maybe there are normal people out there who get off choking their partners until they pass out and then committing in sex acts on a lifeless body. But how am I not surprised that this man is a repeat violent offender and abuser of women?

Now I am wondering what the ruling would be if the woman was choking the man? Am I the only one who believes the SCC might just have said 'you asked for it' in that circumstance. I don't know for sure if they would but am just seeing if others think there may have been a different standard applied in a reverse situation.

The Ontario Court of Appeal previously ruled in favour of the defendant, basically saying to the woman "you asked for it" as you put it. So one court has said a person can give consent while conscious that continues into unconsciousness, while a superior court has said a person can not.

I'm sure there are people here who, like you, imagine without evidence that the courts have a bias against men. It fits in perfectly with the way you framed your accusation. Basically you haven't shown any evidence or even hinted that such evidence exists but rather openly speculated if anyone else felt the same way.

“The legislation requires ongoing, conscious consent to ensure that women and men are not the victims of sexual exploitation, and to ensure that individuals engaging in sexual activity are capable of asking their partners to stop at any point.”
This seems like a fair argument to me. I can understand the difficulties people would have though. It more or less outlaws this kind of sexual activity which despite the lack of legal consent can still be considered consensual to all involved. How does anyone suggest the law get around this?
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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This is weird.

The Supreme Court has ruled that consent must be an ongoing state of mind...it comes from a case where a woman, who regularly engaged in choking/sex, complained about what her partner did to her while she was unconscious.

I was under the impression that the ruling was that a woman can only give consent so long as she is conscious to do so. You object to that?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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Sure, but it is all over the news today.
I won't apologise for working for living, or having a life that sometimes leaves me little time for reading papers, or watching news.
Thanx.

The definition of consent is an ongoing state of mind where individuals can ask their partner to stop, McLachlin wrote.


"Any sexual activity with an individual who is incapable of consciously evaluating whether she is consenting is therefore not consensual within the meaning of the Criminal Code," she wrote.

Seems reasonable to me, given how 'consent' is defined in the CCoC.

It's up to the Gov't now to rewrite the definition in the CCoC, and the concerns of the dissenting Justices will be assuaged.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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There are a couple of places where I have some issues with this.

They are saying we are not allowed to consent to things prior to being unconscious, where does this put us in regard to surgeries etc? Can we now sue a doctor because our consent stops at the moment we lose consciousness and we apparently cannot give prior consent.

I also have to think about the reasons for this case being brought forward initially. From the information I have seen surrounding this case this woman was just fine with it happening many times before and had consented to being rendered unconscious on purpose and to having sex while unconscious. The initial claim was that she had not consented to anal sex while unconscious but she later recanted that which is why the original conviction was overturned. The fact that she only brought it to the police at a later date (months in fact) after an argument with her partner where he threatened to seek custody of their children leads me to believe it was motivated by revenge and not because she had a problem with what transpired.

Another thing to note is that is was not the accuser that took this to the SCC but the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund who seem to have hijacked the case to further their own agenda.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Personally, I'd stay the hell away from any guy that got turned on by choking on woman. Dude's got to be ****ed in the head.

To the point of unconciousness?????

Oh yeah, definitely a warning sign.....a BIG one in orange flashing neon letters.......

Actually, I know little about the case, but it was mutual consent.......and my suspicion would be that the woman wanted to be choked........

And one should be suspicious of the motives of a woman that either enjoys or allows herself to be repeatedly choked into unconciousness.....hmmmmm, my first question to her would be, how nuts are you?

And I'm sorry, but yes sexual history has a bearing on rape........especially in the case of an on-going repeated relationship.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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They are saying we are not allowed to consent to things prior to being unconscious, where does this put us in regard to surgeries etc? Can we now sue a doctor because our consent stops at the moment we lose consciousness and we apparently cannot give prior consent.
1, There's physical consent, by way of a signature from the patient.
2, Choking someone, is illegal, full stop. You can not consent to being criminally assaulted.
I also have to think about the reasons for this case being brought forward initially. From the information I have seen surrounding this case this woman was just fine with it happening many times before and had consented to being rendered unconscious on purpose and to having sex while unconscious. The initial claim was that she had not consented to anal sex while unconscious but she later recanted that which is why the original conviction was overturned. The fact that she only brought it to the police at a later date (months in fact) after an argument with her partner where he threatened to seek custody of their children leads me to believe it was motivated by revenge and not because she had a problem with what transpired.
Happens daily.

Another thing to note is that is was not the accuser that took this to the SCC but the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund who seem to have hijacked the case to further their own agenda.
Yep, something else that happens daily.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Actually, I know little about the case, but it was mutual consent.......and my suspicion would be that the woman wanted to be choked........

Yeah, but how do we know that she wanted a dildo put in her anus after she was unconscious?
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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So really this only impacts couples who engage in erotic asphyxiation. Are there really that many of them? The entire conscious/consent wording in the criminal code is typically applied when someone drinks a little too much and passes out. You know those, she didn't actually say no kind of situations.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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So really this only impacts couples who engage in erotic asphyxiation. Are there really that many of them?

No. This also impacts men who take home a woman who is drunk or high, and passes out. It is a legal ruling that an unconscious person can not give consent to sexual activities. The two are no different.
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
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1, There's physical consent, by way of a signature from the patient.
2, Choking someone, is illegal, full stop. You can not consent to being criminally assaulted.

Also, the court ruled not on every kind of consent, but specifically consent as defined in the sections of the criminal code that deal with sexual assault.

So if you have a friend over at your house and say "help yourself to a drink" and then take a nap, this ruling won't let you take your friend to court when you wake up and find that he drank the last of your OJ.