Tuition fees protest: 3 cops injured as 20,000-strong mob lays siege to Westminster

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,405
1,667
113
Police officers were injured today after a 20,000-strong mob - mainly students - rioted outside the Houses of Parliament in protest over the increase in university tuition fees in amazing scenes reminiscent of the the 1990 poll tax riots.

Students have been particularly angry at the Liberal Democrats, who are in a coalition government with the Tories. Before this year's General Election, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg stated several times that he and his party were against increasing tuition fees for students. Now, in government, the Lib Dems have made an amazing U-turn and now SUPPORT the hike.

Three officers were wounded and had to be taken to hospital after clashes outside the Mother of Parliaments when a hardcore group of protesters - comprising students, anarchists and an assortment of Left Wingers - repeatedly tried to break through police lines outside the Houses of Parliament.

Footage showed one policeman lying motionless on the ground. Medics fitted him with a neck brace and used a makeshift stretcher to remove him.

One mounted officer was thrown from his horse as missiles including flares, sticks, snooker balls and smoke bombs were hurled from the crowds across the cordon.

One student was even spotted urinating on the Winston Churchill statue (forgetting that if it wasn't for Churchill he wouldn't be free to protest in the first place), wooden benches were set alight and the grass was covered with a huge No in bright red graffiti.

Protesters were forced to run back into the Square after mounted police charged at the crowds in a desperate bid to stop the surge. Seven have been arrested so far.

Another numpty even took it upon herself to climb the Cenotaph - a tribute to Britain's war dead - to pull down a Union Jack.

Despite the protests, the Coalition Government were successful in getting the Commons to support the hike in tuition fees from £3,290 to £9,000 a year. The government won by 323 votes to 302 - a majority of just 21.

Early estimates suggested that nine or ten Conservatives had voted against the policy and that 20 or 21 of the 57 Lib Dems in the Coalition had voted down the policy, rather than abstaining.

A Tory and two Lib Dem private secretaries quit tonight before the vote.

Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg, who is also the Deputy Prime Minister, this morning branded opponents of the plans 'dreamers' and denied he was ashamed of backing the rise, insisting he had to deal with 'the way the world is'.

And, as usual these days within the United Kingdom, it will only be the English who are suffering. The huge rise in tuition fees will only affect English students - Scottish and Welsh students do NOT pay tuition fees and have them paid instead by, even more gallingly, the English taxpayer.

But the English students are showing their anger tonight.

Three police officers seriously injured in battle with mob of anarchists outside Parliament as MPs vote through the rise in student fees

By Daily Mail Reporter
9th December 2010
Daily Mail

  • 20,000 students and activists lay siege to Westminster
  • Three officers seriously injured in scuffles with activists
  • Protesters throw flares, smoke bombs and snooker balls
  • Scotland Yard resort to 'kettling' in Parliament Square
  • Increase is carried by 323 votes to 302 - majority of 21
Police officers were seriously injured today as mask-wearing anarchists hijacked the final tuition fees protest and turned yet another peaceful demonstration into chaos.

Around 20,000 students and activists descended on central London as the demonstrations of recent weeks culminated in a final show of anger at the hike and the Liberal Democrat U-turn.

Three officers were wounded and had to be taken to hospital after clashes when a hardcore group of protesters repeatedly tried to break through police lines outside the Houses of Parliament.

Footage showed one policeman lying motionless on the ground. Medics fitted him with a neck brace and used a makeshift stretcher to remove him.


Blaze: A security hut burning as protesters look on outside the Houses of Parliament tonight


Tensions: Police officers scuffling with demonstrators in Westminster


Dragged to safety: A police officer is helped by a medic during the protests


Rescue: Police officers listen for a heartbeat on an injured protestor


Motionless: A police officer injured in the protests is helped by medics

One mounted officer was knocked from his horse as missiles including flares, sticks, snooker balls and smoke bombs were hurled from the crowds across the cordon.

As MPs prepared to vote on the controversial fee rise tonight, Scotland Yard resorted to 'kettling' the demonstrators in Parliament Square in a bid to contain the violence.

A student was spotted urinating on the Winston Churchill statue, wooden benches were set alight and the grass was covered with a huge No in bright red graffiti.

Protesters were forced to run back into the Square after mounted police charged at the crowds in a desperate bid to stop the surge. Seven have been arrested so far.


Teenager Sophie Down said: 'The police were backing off and we were trying to work it what was happening and we didn't know what was going on, then they all just started charging.

'I'm worried about my friends. I saw a guy who was sitting on the ground and I could see something was wrong with him.

'Everyone was in a good mood - it was like a carnival - but there are people who are clearly looking for a fight.'

Elsewhere, as protesters fanned out through Whitehall, a female student was caught climbing up the Cenotaph - the monument to Britain's war dead - using the Union Jack flying there.


No respect: A protester swinging from the Union Jack flag flying on the Cenotaph


Bloodied: Police medics carry away an injured protester


Flashpoint: Crowds of protesters packed into Parliament Square, where they threw missiles at police

Vast crowds of protesters surged in to Parliament Square at around 2pm, trampling security barriers to get closer to the House of Commons and violence soon flared.

Police reinforcements had to be rushed in to bolster the ring of steel, with officers donning riot helmets and shields to protect themselves

They battled to keep the cordon in place to avoid any invasion of Parliament, as happened during the pro-hunting demonstration in 2004.

No trains were stopping at Westminster underground station tonight to avoid more people joining the crowds.

The policy to increase the fees from £3,290 to £9,000 was carried by 323 votes to 302 - a majority of 21.


Early estimates suggested that nine or ten Conservatives had voted against the policy and that 20 or 21 of the 57 Lib Dems in the Coalition had voted down the policy, rather than abstaining.

A Tory and two Lib Dem private secretaries quit tonight before the vote.

Nick Clegg this morning branded opponents of the plans 'dreamers' and denied he was ashamed of backing the rise, insisting he had to deal with 'the way the world is'.

Business Secretary Vince Cable, who opened this afternoon's debate in the Commons, also warned that he could not hand out popular policies like Father Christmas.


Cordon: Police in riot gear after they were paint bombed by protesters

Enlarge
Democracy in action: Student protesters gathered for a march on Parliament against tuition fees


Widespread: Protesters in Parliament Square and (right) a student urinates on the Churchill statue

Deputy leader Simon Hughes abstained, in a small victory for the Government.

Mr Hughes insisted this morning that the move to increase the tuition fees ceiling to £9,000-a-year could discourage poorer students from pursuing higher education.

'I have decided that I won't be able to support the Government on the fees level, particularly because I believe that for a constituency like mine, the level of fee increase... may have a significant disincentive effect on youngsters going to university,' he said.

There will be a single vote on the proposed increase after none of the possible amendments were selected - a situation that will help the Government.

The coalition's majority was enough to pass the vote but it risks inflicting long-term damage if the rebels coalesce into a disaffected faction and voters fail to forgive their U-turn.

Some claim it could become the party's Iraq war or poll tax and dog them when it comes to the next election.


Difficult: Business Secretary Vince Cable opening today's debate, flanked by Nick Clegg and David Cameron


Crowds of protesters swarm around the statute of Winston Churchill in Parliament Square


Demonstrators and police officers are surrounded by red smoke in Parliament Square


Early on in the debate, protesters had to be removed from the Commons public gallery after they stood up, waved and shouted.

Around five protesters were strong-armed out of the chamber by doorkeepers, as much of the rest of the public gallery burst into applause.

Most MPs were oblivious to the happenings above them as the gallery's reinforced glass screen blocked out the sound.

More than a dozen Lib Dems in total, including former leaders Charles Kennedy and Sir Menzies Campbell, are expected to vote against the plans.

Senior Tories concede that between 10 and 16 of their number will either vote against or abstain, despite personal pleas to some rebels by David Cameron.

The Prime Minister launched a make-or-break bid to save the plans to treble fees last night, claiming the reforms will end a system that favours privately-educated pupils like him.

Lasting six days and leaving almost 300 people dead: The Gordon Riots of 1780, the largest riots that London has ever seen.


The mob set London's Newgate Gaol alight and set free prisoners

Today's anti-tuition fee riots had 20,000 people involved. That may seem a lot, but they are miniscule compared to the Gordon Riots of 1780 in which 40,000 to 60,000 people were involved.

In 1778 Sir George Savile had successfully introduced a Catholic Relief Act, which was part of the Whig tradition of religious toleration. It absolved Roman Catholics from taking the religious oath on joining the army - and helped to boost the size of the British army, necessary in the face of war against America, France and Spain. The legislation was passed by Lord North's ministry.


Lord George Gordon

Lord George Gordon, a powerful and extreme Protestant, set up the Protestant Association in 1780, demanding the repeal of the Catholic Relief Act. He spread fears of "Popery" and royal absolutism; he suggested that Roman Catholics in the British army, especially the Irish, might join forces with their French and Spanish co-religionists and attack England. He saw the Catholic Relief Act as a threat to Anglicanism and since being a Roman Catholic was equated to being a traitor (an idea going back to Elizabeth I and the belief that a person could not be loyal to the English monarch and the Pope at the same time) his Association attracted extremists. Much anti-Catholic feeling was roused.

The high point was in June 1780 when a crowd some 60,000 strong marched to the House of Commons to present a petition for the repeal of the Catholic Relief Act. The crowd included a riotous element and the whole event got out of hand.

The mob took over London for a week. The London homes of Rockingham, Devonshire, Mansfield and Savile (the main advocates of the legislation) were attacked; those of Mansfield and Savile were burned and the others had to be defended by the militia.

The mob looted, burned, waved placards, attacked Catholic churches and presbyteries and the persons and homes of leading Catholics. It took a week for the government to collect enough militia and troops to quash the riots. The mob attacked prisons and freed prisoners. Eventually George III insisted that the troops should be called out.

John Wilkes was in command of the troops outside the Bank of England and ordered his men to fire on the crowd. This marked the end of the Wilkesite movement.


The result of the riots was:
  • 290 dead
  • 100 Roman Catholic buildings (churches, presbyteries, private homes) looted and/or burned (indicating some element of social protest)
  • £70,000 paid in compensation to individuals
  • £30,000 worth of damage to public buildings
  • 25 ringleaders were hanged
  • Lord George Gordon was found "Not Guilty" of treason and got off scot free

Deputy PM Mr Clegg today denied he would feel 'ashamed' when he voted for the plans after signing a pre-election pledge to scrap fees altogether.


'I would feel ashamed if I didn't deal with the way that the world is, not simply dream of the way the world I would like it to be,' he said.

'In the circumstances in which we face, where there isn't very much money around, where many millions of other people are being asked to make sacrifices, where many young people in the future want to go to university - we have to find the solution for all of that.

'I believe that asking graduates to make a contribution - and only make a contribution after they have left university, no upfront fees whatsoever, and only when they have earned a considerably more amount of money than they do under the present system - that is the best possible choice we could have taken.'


Restrained: Police covered in paint pin down a demonstrator


Clashes: Police officers scuffling with demonstrators in Westminster

Mr Cable insisted he was 'proud' of the proposals but admitted 'it's not easy politically'. 'In government we have to make tough choices. We've made them and I think we've produced a better system,' he said.

'We accepted when we entered into the coalition agreement that some of our commitments could be maintained, others could not,' he told the BBC. 'We have had to compromise and the coalition agreement was a compromise.

'It made a commitment to produce a fairer, more progressive system of student tuition fees - we've done that. And it did provide for my colleagues who wish to abstain to do so.'

The Government felt confident enough of victory not to bring back Energy Secretary Chris Huhne from climate change talks in Mexico to bolster the 'yes' vote.

But Labour leader Ed Miliband tried to stir dissent in Lib Dem ranks, by branding it a 'day of judgment' for the party.


D-day: David Cameron leaving Downing Street this morning

'Today it looks like many Lib Dems will break that promise. To abstain in this vote will simply allow the Government to increase tuition fees. I am calling on all MPs - including Lib Dems - to vote against this increase,' he said.

Labour were pushing for a longer debate in the hope that more Lib Dems will revolt if it is drawn out.

Dr Cable yesterday issued three more concessions to try and ease jitters on the backbenches.

The salary threshold at which graduates start to repay fees will be reassessed each year in line with earnings from 2016 - not just every five years, as had been planned.

The existing £15,000 minimum earnings repayment level will also be linked to inflation from 2012, and part-time students will be able to qualify for student loans if they study for a quarter of the year, rather than having to study for a third as planned.

It has emerged that student leaders proposed £4.2billion in cuts over four years to support for poorer undergraduates, teching funds and research grants in a bid to avoid higher fees.

They e-mailed Dr Cable in October when he was drawing up his response to the Browne report on higher education funding, arguing funding cuts could avoid the need for a fee rise.

A coalition source said it was 'astonishing' that the NUS was opposing the increase when its leaders were ready to contemplate 'drastic' cuts in grants for existing students.


Blue line: Police officers standing across the Mall in front of Buckingham Palace this afternoon


Demonstrators confronting police officers outside the Houses of Parliament

dailymail.co.uk
 
Last edited:

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
This is just another sign of what a bloody disaster European Union Free Market, Monetarist policies have been. Europe is free fall. Greece and Ireland are bankrupt, bailed out by bridge loans that will never be repaid.

Spain is dealing with a 20% unemployment rate, Depression level. France recently raised the retirement age, now Britain triples the tuition rate, essentially wiping out accessibility of higher education for all but a privileged few. Austerity looms in all of Europe.

It's a microcosm of what is happening world wide as the Free Trade agenda impoverishes all except the super rich oligarchs involved in investment banking and trade.. and their political cronies. If things get as bad as i think it will, they might not be able to protect themselves from these mobs, and will be hanging from lamp posts along Whitehall.
 

Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
893
1
18
Alberta
I find it amusing, but not ironic, in these events never made much coverage in Canada. Even in Britain, I suspect, there were attempts to minimalize this event in the media.


Our Government have no problem pushing the "left agenda", but when it comes to slap them back in the face (i.e. tutition rates), than suddenly they look the other way!

Things are looking bleak in England; as Coldstream pointed out, in that English Youth have no future (industrial base stripped away, no natural resources to speak of, et al) and education in England is effectively an elite institution due to unaffordable tutition...


Though I have to ask Coldstream and others if this is a new occurence? Rhetorical question... As sadly the answer is no.

The British Isles have always been at the mercy of the hounds (foreign Monarchs, Nobles, incompetent administrators, et al) and consequentially Britain is the only country which has had a rush of emmigrants since 1620 (Mayflower) and to this day, there are hordes of British fleeing to Australia, Canada and the United States.
Trust me, I've been to England and thought it was the most depressing place in the world (other than the concentration camps in Central Europe which I've seen)
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,303
11,389
113
Low Earth Orbit
The Brits rally know how to voice themselve violently. Sometimes that is what it takes to reverse the fear and make the Govt scared.

Cracking job!
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
The Brits realize that current budgets and deficits are unsustainable.
The tax base cannot support existing expenditures.

Canadians need to be prepared for the same problems here.
Canadian University students are heavily subsidized by the taxpayer.
Virtually all Canadian Universities are now running hard into the red.
Higher taxes or higher tuitions; that is the question.

As to this statement by Trotz
Quote" Trust me, I've been to England and thought it was the most depressing place
in the world (other than the concentration camps in Central Europe which I've seen)" unquote

My response is no I don't trust you in the least.
Maybe its because I have a dual UK Canadian citizenship.
Maybe its because I have been working in Europe and the UK for the last 5 years.
Maybe its because I have friends, family and business associates in England.
I happen to think London is a reasonably interesting place.

I would ask if you have spent much time in Pakistan or Bangladesh?
India perhaps? Have you seen the slums in Calcutta or the second largest slum in the world, Dharavi, on the outskirts of Mumbai?
Have you seen the lepers? Walked through Mother Teresa's orphanages? Smelled the smells?
I have.
Been to Cuba and seen the people trapped in villages because their Carnet does not allow then to even take the bus to the next village over?
Heard about how their ration books cannot even deliver the basic rice, beans and cooking oil?
Watered down milk for the babies?
I could go on and on.

I have packed the gym bags full of used clothes.
Bags full of used glasses.
Even bags full of pharmaceuticals for desperate doctors in Communist countries.
And believe me you need to be seriously hooked up to be packing bags of pharmaceuticals through third world customs( answer: Catholic church)
And no I am not a Catholic.

If the UK is the most depressing or desperate place you have ever seen you either need to get out a lot more or perhaps just stay home and hush up.

Trex
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,303
11,389
113
Low Earth Orbit
Thankfully in Canada, China pre-buys X number of seats....If you say it fast, University of Regina and University of Red China sound the same.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Thankfully in Canada, China pre-buys X number of seats....If you say it fast, University of Regina and University of Red China sound the same.

The year I started at the NSAC, there were probably an average of 6 students in each year class of the Aquaculture program. When I left, it was up to 20 students, mostly from Fujian Agriculture and Forestry University, a sister school we've partnered with.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
Tonningnton and Petros.

Right you both are.
But what are Canadian universities to do?

The provinces dictate funding.
Virtually all the Uni's are hard into the red.
No funding increases in sight and big deficits to pay down.

The foreign students pay big bucks.
They are there to subsidize and finance Canadian students, make no mistake.
But more and more they are taking up seats that Canadian kids should be filling.
But we need to understand, they really do pay the Canadian kids way.

What do we do?
The grades required to get into Uni these days are over the moon.
To be honest if I were a youngster these days I would not have a chance at getting in.
No possible way.
And yet in the dark old days I wondered in without a care.

I know people very senior in Canadian research Uni's.
There is no easy answer.

Raise taxes.
Cut courses and shut down whole faculties.
Double or triple tuition.

Pick two.

Trex
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Raise taxes.
Cut courses and shut down whole faculties.
Double or triple tuition.

Pick two.

Trex


There is a more basic issue at play here... In Canada (and possibly Britain), the public expects the government to be all things to all people. The fact is, you gotta pay to play and now that the boomers are in retirement, the tax revenues are going down.

That translates into less of government subsidization and fewer services.
 

JakeElwood

~ Blues Brother ~
Nov 27, 2009
275
3
18
3,963 miles from Chicago
I find it amusing, but not ironic, in these events never made much coverage in Canada. Even in Britain, I suspect, there were attempts to minimalize this event in the media.
No it wasn't minimalized.
With 24-hour rolling news the the BBC and SkyTV now over-report just about every story.


...now Britain triples the tuition rate, essentially wiping out accessibility of higher education for all but a privileged few.
The cap may have been almost tripled, but that doesn't mean the fees will have tripled. Actually a £6,000 cap will apply in most cases.

By not having to pay fees upfront, surely that means people from poorer backgrounds can afford to study and pay the fees after they have their degree and they are earning a reasonable salary.

The loan will only start to be repaid when the graduate earns more than £21,000 per annum (up from £15,000).
-> So a graduate earning £25,000 per annum will only have to repay £30 per month. Does this really sound like only the privileged few can afford the fees?
Under the new system part-time students will be treated the same as full-time students - they will no longer have to pay their tuition fees upfront - that sounds fairer to me (the upfront fees for my new part-time distance learning course are £1,500 - I saved up by not going on holiday in 2010).



:angry4: The old Labour Government (under Tony 'war-criminal' Blair and Gordon 'we didn't vote for you' Brown) got my country into this mess (outrageous overspending, a bloated Civil Service, wasting taxpayers money, unfairly taxing pension funds, getting us involved in Iraq, failing to give the country the promised referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, etc.) and they had no idea how to get us out. Plus they would have used the same Browne Report when it came to amending tuition fees - so who knows how different it would have been under them? But based on their track record between 1997 and 2010 I can only imagine the answer would be 'worse'. A lot worse.
Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have proven themselves to be the UK's worst Prime Ministers - and Brown was an equally crap Chancellor.

Trust me, I've been to England and thought it was the most depressing place in the world (other than the concentration camps in Central Europe which I've seen)
With the UK's population rising, people seem to be moving here faster than we appear to be leaving - so the most depressing place on earth? I doubt it.

But given the chance I'd like to move abroad - to a bigger country, there's no room to swing a cat in Southern England.;-)
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
I have no problem with tripling university tuitions as long as gov't also mandates a tripling of student loan availability. In many respects it is more fair to have the benefactors of the educational system bearing the brunt of the cost, than the tax payers at large. University graduates have more career opportunities available to them after graduation and as a result (in the vast majority of cases) a higher earning potential. In essence, once they graduate and are working, they have more ability to pay back those loans than those who do not attend university, for whatever reason.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
fr. Elwood - The cap may have been almost tripled, but that doesn't mean the fees will have tripled. Actually a £6,000 cap will apply in most cases.

By not having to pay fees upfront, surely that means people from poorer backgrounds can afford to study and pay the fees after they have their degree and they are earning a reasonable salary.

The loan will only start to be repaid when the graduate earns more than £21,000 per annum (up from £15,000).

All i see this means is that if you find yourself flipping burgers, the most many college graduates can expect in the 'New Economy'... since it is not creating anywhere near enough high competency jobs to absorb the number of degrees being minted.. you might never find yourself in a position where you CAN pay off these loans. If you are one of the increasingly few who are actually able to fully apply an advanced education, you will be burdened with staggering debts that will inhibit your ability to start a family and buy a house.

To me this is a cynical acknowledgement on the part of the British government that its economic policies in fact are incapable of producing high calibre and high payed industrial careers, and are producing low payed transient service sector jobs in their place. A miniscule few will go into trading or investment banking careers, and will live extravagantly on the largesse of the exploitive and parasitic global investment paradigm, to misery of the rest.

It is a completely unsustainable situation. Britain, and the rest of Europe and North America, will not be able to cut spending quickly enough to compensate for a collapsing industrial economic infrastructure. I'm afraid what you saw on the streets of Britain is but the first of a long period of increasingly arbitrary government action, completely subservient to the dictates of Free Trade/ Monetarist global establishment, and an increasingly belligerent populace who see they are being scammed and cheated for enrichment of a few oligarchs.
 
Last edited:

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
Maybe there should be a course teaching how to achieve your ambition without violence?

Or may be there should be mothers and fathers to teach their offsprings some manners?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Financing tuition rates through the tax system produces benefits for not only the students, but for larger society as well. They include lower unemployment rates, higher income, productivity gain, improvements in population health, and increased civic participation.

In Nova Scotia, we paid very high tuition fees, in fact tuition fees generate more operating revenue in NS universities and colleges than grants from the government do.
 

Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
893
1
18
Alberta
All i see this means is that if you find yourself flipping burgers, the most many college graduates can expect in the 'New Economy'... since it is not creating anywhere near enough high competency jobs to absorb the number of degrees being minted.. you might never find yourself in a position where you CAN pay off these loans. If you are one of the increasingly few who are actually able to fully apply an advanced education, you will be burdened with staggering debts that will inhibit your ability to start a family and buy a house.

To me this is a cynical acknowledgement on the part of the British government that its economic policies in fact are incapable of producing high calibre and high payed industrial careers, and are producing low payed transient service sector jobs in their place. A miniscule few will go into trading or investment banking careers, and will live extravagantly on the largesse of the exploitive and parasitic global investment paradigm, to misery of the rest.

It is a completely unsustainable situation. Britain, and the rest of Europe and North America, will not be able to cut spending quickly enough to compensate for a collapsing industrial economic infrastructure. I'm afraid what you saw on the streets of Britain is but the first of a long period of increasingly arbitrary government action, completely subservient to the dictates of Free Trade/ Monetarist global establishment, and an increasingly belligerent populace who see they are being scammed and cheated for enrichment of a few oligarchs.

The consequences be damned,
we should have fought the Yanks back in '56!


Anthony Eden should have called their bluff! It was a huge bluff, as no way public opinion in the United States would had tolerated an alliance with the Soviet Union and war against Britain and France.

Back on topic, still having protectionism and an Empire would have meant this "world recession" (which is really only affecting the free trade Anglo sphere) would just be limited to the incompetent United States.
 
Last edited:

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
The real question is just exactly who do the students expect to pay for their education? There is no such thing as a free lunch. Perhaps they should be protesting the exornanant salaries that educators get since this is where the main cost of running a university or any school come in. Perhaps a good look at what courses are offered and what the job prospects are at the end of them is also in order. I can see public financing of medicine and engineering fields but not for a degree in medieval history.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
917
31
28
Hither and yon
Financing tuition rates through the tax system produces benefits for not only the students, but for larger society as well. They include lower unemployment rates, higher income, productivity gain, improvements in population health, and increased civic participation.

In Nova Scotia, we paid very high tuition fees, in fact tuition fees generate more operating revenue in NS universities and colleges than grants from the government do.

Tuition at Dalhousie for a BSc is $6500 per year.
That, of course, excludes books, lab fees, S.U. fees, gym fees, health surcharges and so on.
The U of A in Alberta charges $4600/year for Engineering.
Lets round them both up to around $8,000 or $9,000 a year all in.
That in my opinion is dirt cheap and does not come vaguely close to actually covering the cost of the education.
Average Canadian tuition is lower than American ,Australian or UK tuition.
And the U.K. is debating tripling tuition?

Harvard, one of the top Ivy league schools is private.
It costs the tax payers exactly zero.
Harvards privately raised and resourced endowment is 27 billion dollars.
Yes thats with a B.
Tuition runs around $30,000 to $40,000 a year.

I have no problem at all in jacking up tuition fees in Canada to at least help in covering the costs of an individuals education.

As I have already stated most Canadian Uni's are now running well into the red.
Cuts in future funding are the general expectation.

Raise taxes dramatically.
Cut faculties and lay off staff.
Seriously raise tuition.

Pick two.
Trex
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
Harvard, one of the top Ivy league schools is private.
It costs the tax payers exactly zero.
Harvards privately raised and resourced endowment is 27 billion dollars.
Yes thats with a B.
Tuition runs around $30,000 to $40,000 a year.

Harvard in fact sets its fees by the capability of the student's family to pay. Hence any family earning below a certain threshold, i think its something like $50K, will not have to pay anything, it will all be covered by the Endowment. Hence graduates from Harvard, who can expect amongst the most lucrative of entry jobs, will almost all enter the workforce with no debt.

That is the reverse of what the British are trying to do, in loading up students with crippling debt in an economy with little expectations most of them will be able to support themselves, much less service their student loans. Hence the real reduction of government expenditures are likely to be almost nil... it will be bookkeeping reclassification from grants to non-performing loans at best. It's all ass backwards and the British PM Cameron seems to be a little bit retarded, certainly imcompetent and disingenuous.
 
Last edited: