English Defence League clash with police over new mosque

Blackleaf

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Members of the English Defence League have clashed with police today during a protest over the building of a mosque.

About 2,000 members of the EDL descended on Dudley in the West Midlands

Some of the protesters broke out of a pen in a car park, breaking down metal fences and throwing the metal brackets at officers, who were armed with riot shields and batons.

Many of the protesters also waved placards saying 'Muslim bombers off our streets', 'Say no to the mosque' and 'This is England, not Englastan."

The riots are similar to those that occurred in Bolton a few weeks ago when the EDL clashed with members of Unite Against Fascism (UAF). Other scenes of unrest have occurred throughout England.

The mosque is planned for Hall Street with details on the design and positioning of the building due for submission by July 2011.

Dudley Council have subsequently said that they do not want the EDL in their town (the English are not allowed to be patriotic towards England - as it is considered "racist" - but officialdom does nothing when Muslims wave placards to British troops on homecoming parades that say that they should be beheaded).

But the English are starting to fight back against the fact that their culture and traditions are being trampled upon, despite what the PC Brigade say (and "the mob" has worked successfully over the centuries).

Before the march, West Midlands Police issued a statement to the EDL saying they were powerless to stop the march as everyone in England has a right to free speech and to protest, but that the protest must be peaceful.

Unite Against Fascism (UAF), a group of left wingers, trade unionists and Muslims who wrongly believe that the EDL are fascists despite the fact the EDL only protest against Islamic terrorism, held a peaceful protest in the town earlier today in an area which could not be seen from the rival demonstration.

Police clash with right-wing demonstrators during protest against plans for new mosque

By Daily Mail Reporter
03rd April 2010



Violent clashes broke out between riot police and right-wing protesters today during a demonstration against plans for a new mosque.

About 2,000 members of the English Defence League descended on Dudley town centre in the West Midlands to demonstrate at plans for a new mosque.

Some of the protesters broke out of a pen in a car park, breaking down metal fences and throwing the metal brackets at officers, who were armed with riot shields and batons.


Clashes: English Defence League protesters break through barriers during a demonstration through the streets of Dudley


Members of the demonstration started fighting their own stewards who were trying to calm them down as they attacked the fences penning them in.

The EDL had put signs up which read 'Labour forcing mosques on Britain' and 'No one wants this mosque'.

Some demonstrators held placards reading 'Muslim bombers off our streets' and 'Say no to the mosque'.

The national anthem was played on a speaker system while demonstrators waved the flag of St George.

Dudley Council said in a statement on its website: 'We didn't invite the EDL to our town and we don't want them here.'


Police officers control the group of 2,000 EDL members as they protest against plans for a new mosque


A demonstrator runs through a barrier erected by police during today's march


But the council said it did not have the power to ban the event.

It said: 'The council has worked closely with the police to do all it can to protect and support local people, traders, businesses and the town centre.

'The EDL is proposing a static protest (rather than a march) and there is no legal requirement for an organiser of such a protest to notify the police or the council of their definite plans.

'West Midlands Police is committed to upholding the right to lawful and peaceful protests, while supporting and protecting all communities.'

The mosque is planned for Hall Street with details on the design and positioning of the building due for submission by July 2011.

In July last year the council lost a high court challenge to prevent the planning application being given the go ahead.


A police dog handler orders demonstrators to stand back. The group held placards which read 'Labour forcing mosques on Britain'

The EDL protesters managed to break out of the car park by pulling down fences and barging their way past riot police officers.

About half the group then ran off through the town.

Lines of riot police officers fought running battles with protesters as they tried to contain the mob who pulled down barriers blocking off roads.

Nick Mainwood, 42, from Oldbury, West Midlands, said he tried to help an elderly woman who suffered a panic attack during the protest.

He said: 'I came down here for a peaceful protest but it was horrible, absolutely horrible.'

Patricia Taylor, 61, said she was trying to get home after a day out shopping with her 19-month old grandson, Ashley.

'We've been trying to get home since dinner time and the police have told us to go one way and then another but it is all blocked. It's terrifying with the little one and we just want to get home.'

Unite Against Fascism (UAF) held a peaceful protest in the town earlier today in an area which could not be seen from the rival demonstration.

Who are the EDL? Here's what they say...

We, the English Defence League, are a grass roots social movement who represent every walk of life, every race, every creed and every colour; from the working class to middle England. Our unity and diversity is our strength.

We have members that represent our culturally rich, “patriotic” and nation-loving populace. People who can see the threat of “Islamism” for what it is: a vile and virulent ideology based on 7th century barbarity, intolerance, hatred, subjugation and war.

English Defence League members recognise that this threat is one that must be stopped at all costs. Our Christian, Jewish, Sikh, and Hindu friends all have tales to tell with regard to Islamic Imperialism and “Orthodox Teachings”, in particular the Wahhabi/Salafi doctrine of “killing unbelievers if they refuse to be subdued by Islam”.

As the Quran points out in Surah 5 verse 33.......

“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter”

Of course this all depends on the context of what “waging war” entails, and of course what constitutes “mischief in the land”. Well, to Islamists, the very notion of not believing in Allah means that you should be punished, as that is considered an act of war, an act of mischief that should be duly punished as Allah ordains clearly here in this verse.

As a movement we don’t hate all Muslims, we respect their right to practice their religion peacefully as long as it does not infringe on our culture, our way of life, our rule of law and our customs. If any non-Muslim was to visit a Muslim country then that person would be expected to respect their rule of law, their culture and their way of life. Who could disagree with that? What we don’t agree with are Muslims trying to import a doctrine of hate, intolerance and murder into this country, and trying to promote it and institutionalise it through unregulated Mosques, funded by Wahhabist petro dollars.

We also don't agree with the stealthy introduction of Sharia into our legal system.

This Islamic legal system persecutes women to the mere status of a man's “property”.

It does not recognise marital rape, it does not recognise gay rights, it does not recognise many factors contained in the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights. We have had enough, why should anyone tolerate intolerance?

Again we must re-iterate that we do not have any problem with law-abiding, respectful, peaceful Muslims who integrate and contribute positively to society.

Muslims who love and respect our country are welcome. The EDL was never set up to discriminate against all Muslims.

The EDL are wrongly painted as racists, Nazis and Muslim-haters. This simply isn’t true. We do know that some groups have tried to cause trouble, and that some “agent provocateurs” have instigated trouble, groups such as Combat 18, Blood And Honour, Antifa, UAF, their Communist sympathisers and anarchists. As a movement we have been attacked by the far left and the far right, we have had to endure a state sponsored smear campaign used against us from the onset by the state controlled political elite media machine. Apparently we are Nazis because we love our country, because we have the backbone to stand firm in the face of Islamic adversity rather than ignore it, hoping it will go away.

We set out our stall very early on, we are not racist, we don’t like Nazis, we don’t want Nazis joining our demos. We embrace patriotism as something that transcends race, religion, creed and colour. A love for our country is not a crime, a love for freedom is not a crime, but a need for security and the removal of those who pose a threat is just common sense.......

The EDL are a multi-ethnic, multi-religious movement and we are proud of that. We laugh at all those who attack us for being “race traitors”, we mock those who call us “Nazis and racists” we are the EDL, we are neither of those things, we never will be. In fact our main speaker at demonstrations, Guramit Singh is a Sikh of Indian origin. The far left dismissed him as an "uncle Tom", a phrase which I would find quite offensive.

This is a tone they have adopted when referring to any of our members who are not "white" in order for them to continue with their campaign against us.

dailymail.co.uk
www.englishdefenceleague.org
 
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Machjo

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The Qur'an states: No compulsion is there in religion.

That quote is essentially taken as referring to freedom of worship. Unfortunately some Muslims conveniently ignore that verse. And now it would seem the EDL has chosen to join the ranks of those who likewise oppose freedom of religion and worship.
 

AnnaG

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Using violence to combat perceived violence while claiming to be righteous and peace-loving seems to be a bit oxymoronic.
 

coldstream

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Cardinal Pell, a prelate of the Roman Catholic Church and a close advisor of Pope Benedict, a couple of years ago, tried to take an objective and dispassionate appraisal of the Qur'an, as basis for dialogue.

As i remember it, he gave up after about 70 pages.. page after page of vendettas, blood feuds, whippings, banishments, mutilations, amputations, stranglings, beheadings, stonings.. all in the name of and for the smallest slight against Islam. Christians who resort to bloodshed do so in defiance of their Scripture, Muslims do so in obedience to it.

And if you think this is violence is bad, wait until Islam takes over Europe with its Sharia Law. With average Muslim family comprising 6 children, and the birthrate amongst the rest of Europe at about 1.3 per couple, well below replacement levels, that is a possibility in the not too distant future.
 
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Machjo

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Coldstream, have you ever read the Qur'an within its own historical context? At the time, Muslims were severely persecuted, and Muhammad himself had to exile himself from Mecca. I've read the Qur'an numerous times, and it's clear that its comments on the use of force are defensive in nature. The Qur'an itself states clearly that Muslims must not strike first and, if attacked, must cease attacking as soon as the enemy surrender or retreat. Muhammad himself tried to establish alliances with those who refused to accept his Faith and never tried to impose the Faith.

You've obviously either never read the Qur'an or have chosen a particular interpretation before even opening its pages.
 

coldstream

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You've obviously either never read the Qur'an or have chosen a particular interpretation before even opening its pages.
No i've never read the Qur'an.. and have no intention of doing so. But it's hard to see what kind of 'context' would make all this wanton violence acceptable... especially for the 'Messenger of God'..

As I remember it Christ lived in turbulent times as well, as a member of a subjugated people in outer regions of a ruthless empire. And unlike Muhammed was persecuted, scourged and crucified for beliefs unto death.. and didn't resort to any of the 'defensive' or 'justified' bloodshed the 'Prophet' preached. Nor did his apostles.

You seem to have accepted the interpretation of the Qur'an expurgated for Western consumption.. which has little resemblance to the blood curdling rants of Imams calling for jihad and death to infidels at Friday prayers.

Chose your prophets carefully, Machjo.. for you will reap what you sew in faith.
 
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Downhome_Woman

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No i've never read the Qur'an.. and have no intention of doing so. But it's hard to see what kind of 'context' would make all this wanton violence acceptable... especially for the 'Messenger of God'..

As I remember it Christ lived in turbulent times as well, as a member of a subjugated people in outer regions of a ruthless empire. And unlike Muhammed was persecuted, scourged and crucified for beliefs unto death.. and didn't resort to any of the 'defensive' or 'justified' bloodshed the 'Prophet' preached. Nor did his apostles.

You seem to have accepted the interpretation of the Qur'an expurgated for Western consumption.. which has little resemblance to the blood curdling rants of Imams calling for jihad and death to infidels at Friday prayers.

Chose your prophets carefully, Machjo.. for you will reap what you sew in faith.
Excuse me, but anyone in the military - and I use that because you seem to be a person who wants to 'fight' the enemy, would actually read what the 'enemy' think!
And then I read your comments, : ]
No i've never read all of the Qur'an. How can you 'fight' an enemy if you don't understand them? Thats just basic military Junior NCO course knowledge. You never go into battle unless you understand where he enemy is coming from. Your enemy are fundamentalist Islamists? Well then look at who they are and where they came from! That's basic INT work! You don't like these people? Big deal. If you want to affect them, and the rest of the Canadian population? You'll have to actually know what you are complaining about. And you'll actually have to be able to EXPLAIN it.
 

coldstream

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Excuse me, but anyone in the military - and I use that because you seem to be a person who wants to 'fight' the enemy, would actually read what the 'enemy' think!
And then I read your comments, : ]
No i've never read all of the Qur'an. How can you 'fight' an enemy if you don't understand them? Thats just basic military Junior NCO course knowledge. You never go into battle unless you understand where he enemy is coming from. Your enemy are fundamentalist Islamists? Well then look at who they are and where they came from! That's basic INT work! You don't like these people? Big deal. If you want to affect them, and the rest of the Canadian population? You'll have to actually know what you are complaining about. And you'll actually have to be able to EXPLAIN it.

I wouldn't have had to read Mein Kampf to know Hitler and the Nazis had to be rooted out and destroyed.

I also know there are only 2 religions in the world today, and for centuries past, with a Global Messianic Mission.. Christianity and Islam. Other religions exist as solitudes, complete within themselves, without an evangelical and societal imperative.

There is no middle ground with this. They are irreconcilable visions of the relationship of God and Man, one will not tolerate the other.

Civilizations are founded on faiths. Christianity provides the unacknowledged origin, archetype and structure of the West, even in the current muddle of 'multiculturalism'.. and it will always be in conflict with Islam where and when ever it tries to impose itself in the West's sphere.


Both proclaim a monopoly on truth, and only one will prevail.. the war will not be decided on battlefields.. but there will be battles.. the outcome will be a matter of destiny.. and Truth.
 
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CDNBear

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Yes, that must be it, they're all racist, no justification, they just want to hate someone and the nasty Muslims are it today.

It doesn't matter that they feel alienated in their own country. That their rights are being infringed on. It doesn't matter that Police can not enforce the smallest of aspects of the law without threats of violence, being dragged before tribunals and otherwise being branded.

No, none of this matters, they're all just racists...oh wait.

Muslim isn't a race, it's a religion morons.

And before anyone asks, I've read the Quran, and for the very reason as has been stated in this thread, know thy enemy.

Something wicked this way comes.
 

mamorab

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No i've never read the Qur'an.. and have no intention of doing so. But it's hard to see what kind of 'context' would make all this wanton violence acceptable... especially for the 'Messenger of God'..

As I remember it Christ lived in turbulent times as well, as a member of a subjugated people in outer regions of a ruthless empire. And unlike Muhammed was persecuted, scourged and crucified for beliefs unto death.. and didn't resort to any of the 'defensive' or 'justified' bloodshed the 'Prophet' preached. Nor did his apostles.

You seem to have accepted the interpretation of the Qur'an expurgated for Western consumption.. which has little resemblance to the blood curdling rants of Imams calling for jihad and death to infidels at Friday prayers.

Chose your prophets carefully, Machjo.. for you will reap what you sew in faith.

Jesus is a descendent of Isaac , Jacob and Ibrahim. also Mohammad is a descendent of Ibrahim , i believe that makes them related by blood. not also that , Jesus was called the Nazarian because he was born in a village called Nazareth in Palestine , close to journalism, which makes Jesus a son of the middle east, the land of Muslim majority . Muslims love and respect Jesus, they believe in him , just as they believe in Mohammad , i also know that Muslim never say Jesus and not say Peace Be Upon him afterward as a sign of respect and believe. Muslims also believe that Jesus was not crucified , neither tortured , he was lifted to heaven. They also believe that Jesus was unable to complete his message to humanity and the Christianity was not delivered properly for a various obstacle he faced during his mission. that is why you find many differences between Christians, every tripe has different believes even in major issues. some believe Jesus is son of God , some believe he is God , some believe he is a profit.
on the other hand , Mohammad was sent 1000 years later to deliver another message and he was able to complete his mission with success , and was able to cover all aspect of life perfectly as guided by his god and written in the Qur'an. that is why you find only one Qur'an not many of Bible versions , one profit ( mohammad) , one God and one principle for all Muslims. if those are bad in any way to the humanity they would not last 1400 years and be able to grow enough to reach the hearts of 1.5 billion people.

Freedom of religion is a statement in every constitution, and that has to be respected by law if not by religious manners



As you mentioned Hitler in one of your comments, I reply ,If we want to measure how bad Hitler was by the number of people he murdered or the lands he concurred , were do you put The Bush family on that scale? Or 50 % of Europ presidents who approved most of their invasions to Afghanistan , Sudan , Somalia , Iraq , not forgetting Vietnam . don’t you think Canada has a hand in that as well by sending troops to Afghanistan to show some political support? Were is the Israeli government from that scale of death and concur . you think any of them is better than Hitler , all are in the same basket I believe .
 

CDNBear

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Jesus is a descendent of Isaac , Jacob and Ibrahim. also Mohammad is a descendent of Ibrahim , i believe that makes them related by blood.
Before I continue, I feel compelled to ask, are you by chance a Muslim mamorab?


 

Machjo

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Yes, that must be it, they're all racist, no justification, they just want to hate someone and the nasty Muslims are it today.

It doesn't matter that they feel alienated in their own country. That their rights are being infringed on. It doesn't matter that Police can not enforce the smallest of aspects of the law without threats of violence, being dragged before tribunals and otherwise being branded.

No, none of this matters, they're all just racists...oh wait.

Muslim isn't a race, it's a religion morons.

And before anyone asks, I've read the Quran, and for the very reason as has been stated in this thread, know thy enemy.

Something wicked this way comes.

Interesting. I'd read the Qur'an and got something totally different from it. I actually admire its teachings within the context of my understanding of the verses.
 

CDNBear

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Interesting. I'd read the Qur'an and got something totally different from it. I actually admire its teachings within the context of my understanding of the verses.
I think you read something in my post, that I did not say, nor imply.

I stated, I have read the Quran, I made no mention of what I took from it. I merely stated, that one must know their enemy.
 

Machjo

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Actually. Mamorab, what you just described about Jesus being lifted to heaven, that is majority popular Muslim belief. Among Muslim scholars, there is more varied discussion on that topic. I remember one stating that the Qur'an and Bible don't actually contradict each other here. The Qur'an states that they'd crucified a likeness of Jesus, but that Jesus was lifted unto heaven. I forget this scholar's name, but he'd explained that the Qur'an was making a distinction between the physical temple of Jesus and his spirit. The Jews believed that by killing his body, they were killing Jesus himself. The Qur'an was referring to this when it said they'd never killed Jesus. His spirit lived on and was raised unto heaven. The Bible confirms this too.

It's all a mater of interpretation and understanding. In the end, it's best to read the Qur'an for yourself rather than just follow a Mullah, since even the Mullah's will disagree with one another even more than the general Muslim population does, who tend to just accept the majority or popular interpretation without further questioning.
 

CDNBear

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what difference does it make if you are debating a freedom of religion.
It makes a monumental difference, esepcially when you speak of Jesus, Mohammed and so on. You have to understand time lines. At what point in history did each of these religions spawn.

By reading your post, you would think that Islam was first. That couldn't be any more further from the truth if you launched it into space.

just shoot your question
I didn't have one. I just wanted to be sure I was about to poke a huge hole in the religious beliefs of someone who may or may not be a Muslim.

If you are, I find it humourous and of course not surprising, you haven't a clue about the history of your chosen faith. It is a common issue with many of the devout, be they whatever faith.

Jesus was not, as you put it "a son of the middle east, the land of Muslim majority". That is a misleading statement. Jesus was Jewish. His followers were Christian. It wasn't until some 570 {Approx) years later, that Mo brought Islam out from under it's rock.

As Christianity encompassed Pagan rituals and rights, Mo thought stealing some of the history from Christians and Jews was a good way to win converts, as did the Christians.
 

CDNBear

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Sorry about that.
No problem, just want to make sure we're on the same page.

To be honest, I took from it, the same as you. There are passages though, as there are in the Bible, that can be mutated into violent behaviour, and have been.
 

mamorab

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Actually. Mamorab, what you just described about Jesus being lifted to heaven, that is majority popular Muslim belief. Among Muslim scholars, there is more varied discussion on that topic. I remember one stating that the Qur'an and Bible don't actually contradict each other here. The Qur'an states that they'd crucified a likeness of Jesus, but that Jesus was lifted unto heaven. I forget this scholar's name, but he'd explained that the Qur'an was making a distinction between the physical temple of Jesus and his spirit. The Jews believed that by killing his body, they were killing Jesus himself. The Qur'an was referring to this when it said they'd never killed Jesus. His spirit lived on and was raised unto heaven. The Bible confirms this too.

It's all a mater of interpretation and understanding. In the end, it's best to read the Qur'an for yourself rather than just follow a Mullah, since even the Mullah's will disagree with one another even more than the general Muslim population does, who tend to just accept the majority or popular interpretation without further questioning.

True that , the Qur'an States that the jews think they killed Jesus , but they did not , it was some one alike.
thanks for your advice buddy ,but i guess Qur'an is very hard to interpretate and at some point you need some one or some book to understand. and that is that reason we are here :) .