Whales, seals, and oxen: what's the difference?

[Machjo]

We all want bans on the seal hunt and whaling, yet we see nothing wrong with eating beef.

Personally, I eat vegan (though will eat non-vegan when necessary such as to not offend a host for example). However, I don't understand the logic in people who oppose whaling and sealing but who are not equally vocal about eating beef, chicken, etc.

Am I the ony one who sees a double-standard here or is there something I'm missing?

 

[Cliffy]

We grow beef and chicken for consumption. We don't grow whales and seals. We can control the population of domestic animals but we can extinct wild species. I cannot see how you fail to recognize the obvious.

 

[AnnaG]

We all want bans on the seal hunt and whaling, yet we see nothing wrong with eating beef.

Personally, I eat vegan (though will eat non-vegan when necessary such as to not offend a host for example). However, I don't understand the logic in people who oppose whaling and sealing but who are not equally vocal about eating beef, chicken, etc.

Am I the ony one who sees a double-standard here or is there something I'm missing?

There's a huge difference. We can grow as much beef as we want. How could you farm whales? Most need hundreds of square miles of range.
Um, yeah, basically I am dittoing Cliffy.

 

[Spade]

Well put, Cliff.

 

[Liberalman]

There's a huge difference. We can grow as much beef as we want. How could you farm whales? Most need hundreds of square miles of range.
Um, yeah, basically I am dittoing Cliffy.

You could say the same about fish where they need a lots of square miles to feed but it's not true and fish farming has proven that.

Look at all the seals and whales in captivity the whales are in pens and fed on a daily bases so needing hundreds of square miles just isn't true and seals are the same.

The seal hunt would be better if they harvested the whole animal, fur for fashion and meat for food.

The aboriginals have existed on whale and seal meat for thousands of years.

Since there is demand for whale and seal meat, Canada should help businesses develop that industry.

 

[lone wolf]

Can they refine gasoline from whale oil?

 

[Machjo]

We grow beef and chicken for consumption. We don't grow whales and seals. We can control the population of domestic animals but we can extinct wild species. I cannot see how you fail to recognize the obvious.

Fair enough. I'd assume then that you'd see nothing wrong with a company setting up a seal farm? A whale farm might be tricky owing to the sheer size that such a farm would take. It would cost lots of money to buy the water space needed for such a farm. But I take it that, in principle at least, you'd have no issue with seal farms and whale farms if one wanted to set one up?

 

[Johnnny]

If a species is completely extripated to just farms in the end, did we do that species a favour?

 

[Machjo]

There's a huge difference. We can grow as much beef as we want. How could you farm whales? Most need hundreds of square miles of range.
Um, yeah, basically I am dittoing Cliffy.

Fair enough, and I agree on that front. I guess I was thinking more not so much of conservation, but the idea of eating the animal.

Then let's take another example: fishing. I know fish farms exist, but much commercial fishing goes on too. So do we ban the consumption of all meat not raised on farms? that would certainly bring the price of fish up at least in the short term as more fish farms work to catch up with the demand.

 

[Cliffy]

Fair enough. I'd assume then that you'd see nothing wrong with a company setting up a seal farm? A whale farm might be tricky owing to the sheer size that such a farm would take. It would cost lots of money to buy the water space needed for such a farm. But I take it that, in principle at least, you'd have no issue with seal farms and whale farms if one wanted to set one up?

You would be incorrect. Farming wild animals and fish should be illegal. They produce inferior meat and are inefficient, not to mention hot beds of disease. It is bad enough how we treat our domestic stock, doing the same to wild animals would just prove how inhumane we are.

 

[Machjo]

You could say the same about fish where they need a lots of square miles to feed but it's not true and fish farming has proven that.

Look at all the seals and whales in captivity the whales are in pens and fed on a daily bases so needing hundreds of square miles just isn't true and seals are the same.

The seal hunt would be better if they harvested the whole animal, fur for fashion and meat for food.

The aboriginals have existed on whale and seal meat for thousands of years.

Since there is demand for whale and seal meat, Canada should help businesses develop that industry.

I should have read this post first I suppose, as you've obviously brought up the question of fishing already. And you also brought up another good point which is the use of the whole animal. Is that the issue?

If that's the issue, then instead of banning the killing of this or that animal, why not just legislate what parts of the animal must be used?

Of if the issue is farming, then what about fishing? Essentially, my isue is with ensuring a common standard for all animals. Instead of passing a law relating to this or that animal, the government should just pas one detailed law defining the rules one must follow in killing any animal, with the rule applying universally to all animals. That way it would eliminate what I call Bambi politics (in reference to the cuteness factor in deciding that animal can be killed and what animal can't).

 

[Machjo]

You would be incorrect. Farming wild animals and fish should be illegal. They produce inferior meat and are inefficient, not to mention hot beds of disease. It is bad enough how we treat our domestic stock, doing the same to wild animals would just prove how inhumane we are.

So, if you were to word a law that would apply equally to all animals (i.e. no Bambi politics), then what would it be? Would it be:

1. All animals must be killed according to the following procedure: a, b, c, etc.

2. Only domesticated animals can be killed?

3. Only animals not on some official endangered species list can be killed?

Or is it something else?

So far, we've mentioned cruelty. So if it's about cruelty, then the issue is not about sealing but about HOW the seal is killed. So in that case, we should not ban sealing, but rather regulate it just like we regulate the slaughter of oxen?

The issue here is to avoid the double standards that come along with Bambi politics.

 

[AnnaG]

You could say the same about fish where they need a lots of square miles to feed but it's not true and fish farming has proven that.

Fish aren't whales, kid. The bigger the fish, the more area it needs. Why aren't there 30 pound trout in creeks?

Look at all the seals and whales in captivity the whales are in pens and fed on a daily bases so needing hundreds of square miles just isn't true and seals are the same.

Try housing and feeding entire pods of orca or humpbacks.

 

[Liberalman]

You would be incorrect. Farming wild animals and fish should be illegal. They produce inferior meat and are inefficient, not to mention hot beds of disease. It is bad enough how we treat our domestic stock, doing the same to wild animals would just prove how inhumane we are.

The point is that the wild animals cease to be that when raised as livestock.

When you look at wild cows, chickens and pigs they taste diferent because they eat different foods.

The farm elk, bison, ,moose are are fed food that is available at he feed mill

 

[Machjo]

So Anna G, I take it that what you're saying is that we should be allowed to sell only meat we farm, with hunting being reserved for personal sufficiency only?

If so, then commercial fishing's out.

 

[Liberalman]

Fish aren't whales, kid. The bigger the fish, the more area it needs. Why aren't there 30 pound trout in creeks?

Try housing and feeding entire pods of orca or humpbacks.

You don't need pods because they are not searching for food.

The big tanks will be on farmers land and they will be raised for food

 

[AnnaG]

Fair enough, and I agree on that front. I guess I was thinking more not so much of conservation, but the idea of eating the animal.

Then let's take another example: fishing. I know fish farms exist, but much commercial fishing goes on too. So do we ban the consumption of all meat not raised on farms? that would certainly bring the price of fish up at least in the short term as more fish farms work to catch up with the demand.

You could say that banning any fishing of cod would probably bring the population back, yes.



The point is, is that if we had fished responsibly in the first place we'd be better off and so would the cod stocks.

 

[lone wolf]

You don't need pods because they are not searching for food.

The big tanks will be on farmers land and they will be raised for food

Big tanks? Land? That creates a lot of overhead. Fence the ocean

 

[Machjo]

You could say that banning any fishing of cod would probably bring the population back, yes.



The point is, is that if we had fished responsibly in the first place we'd be better off and so would the cod stocks.

So then isn't it hypocritical of a politician to introduce a law banning sealing as opposed to a more general law banning the commercial sale of any non-farmed meat, with hunting and fishing being reserved for self and family and friends? Isn't that a sign of Bambi politics?

And yes, I would be in favour of a more general law banning the sale of any kind of non-farmed meat. However, I can't find myself supporting a ban on the sale of seal specifically, as it seems to opportunistic, a sign of Bambi politics.

 

[Machjo]

So in the name of consistency, who here among those who support a ban on commercial whaling and sealing would also support a ban on commercial fishing?