America Is Not Yet Lost

china
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#1
----By -- Published: February 7, 2010
We’ve always known that America’s reign as the world’s greatest nation would eventually end. But most of us imagined that our downfall, when it came, would be something grand and tragic.
-- Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times



What we’re getting instead is less a tragedy than a deadly farce. Instead of fraying under the strain of imperial overstretch, we’re paralyzed by procedure. Instead of re-enacting the decline and fall of Rome, we’re re-enacting the dissolution of 18th-century Poland.
A brief history lesson: In the 17th and 18th centuries, the Polish legislature, the Sejm, operated on the unanimity principle: any member could nullify legislation by shouting “I do not allow!” This made the nation largely ungovernable, and neighboring regimes began hacking off pieces of its territory. By 1795 Poland had disappeared, not to re-emerge for more than a century.
Today, the U.S. Senate seems determined to make the Sejm look good by comparison.
Last week, after nine months, the Senate finally approved Martha Johnson to head the General Services Administration, which runs government buildings and purchases supplies. It’s an essentially nonpolitical position, and nobody questioned Ms. Johnson’s qualifications: she was approved by a vote of 94 to 2. But Senator Christopher Bond, Republican of Missouri, had put a “hold” on her appointment to pressure the government into approving a building project in Kansas City.
This dubious achievement may have inspired Senator Richard Shelby, Republican of Alabama. In any case, Mr. Shelby has now placed a hold on all outstanding Obama administration nominations — about 70 high-level government positions — until his state gets a tanker contract and a counterterrorism center.
What gives individual senators this kind of power? Much of the Senate’s business relies on unanimous consent: it’s difficult to get anything done unless everyone agrees on procedure. And a tradition has grown up under which senators, in return for not gumming up everything, get the right to block nominees they don’t like.
In the past, holds were used sparingly. That’s because, as a Congressional Research Service report on the practice says, the Senate used to be ruled by “traditions of comity, courtesy, reciprocity, and accommodation.” But that was then. Rules that used to be workable have become crippling now that one of the nation’s major political parties has descended into nihilism, seeing no harm — in fact, political dividends — in making the nation ungovernable.
How bad is it? It’s so bad that I miss Newt Gingrich.
Readers may recall that in 1995 Mr. Gingrich, then speaker of the House, cut off the federal government’s funding and forced a temporary government shutdown. It was ugly and extreme, but at least Mr. Gingrich had specific demands: he wanted Bill Clinton to agree to sharp cuts in Medicare.
Today, by contrast, the Republican leaders refuse to offer any specific proposals. They inveigh against the deficit — and last month their senators voted in lockstep against any increase in the federal debt limit, a move that would have precipitated another government shutdown if Democrats hadn’t had 60 votes. But they also denounce anything that might actually reduce the deficit, including, ironically, any effort to spend Medicare funds more wisely.
And with the national G.O.P. having abdicated any responsibility for making things work, it’s only natural that individual senators should feel free to take the nation hostage until they get their pet projects funded.
The truth is that given the state of American politics, the way the Senate works is no longer consistent with a functioning government. Senators themselves should recognize this fact and push through changes in those rules, including eliminating or at least limiting the filibuster. This is something they could and should do, by majority vote, on the first day of the next Senate session.
Don’t hold your breath. As it is, Democrats don’t even seem able to score political points by highlighting their opponents’ obstructionism.
It should be a simple message (and it should have been the central message in Massachusetts): a vote for a Republican, no matter what you think of him as a person, is a vote for paralysis. But by now, we know how the Obama administration deals with those who would destroy it: it goes straight for the capillaries. Sure enough, Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, accused Mr. Shelby of “silliness.” Yep, that will really resonate with voters.
After the dissolution of Poland, a Polish officer serving under Napoleon penned a song that eventually — after the country’s post-World War I resurrection — became the country’s national anthem. It begins, “Poland is not yet lost.”
Well, America is not yet lost. But the Senate is working on it.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________

LIBERUM VETO
 
selin
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#2
everyone dreams the fall of America but the only fall which happens is dreams they have... so nevermind , wait and see , the nature and fate are more powerful , fair...
 
Mowich
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#3
What a shame that this great country is held hostage by people who, instead of having their nation's best interests at heart, are steadfastly working against its progress.

Politics in the US is so polarized and so bitter that one wonders what the future holds for the country.

Obama may have been all about change but so far the status quo seems in no trouble of being ousted.
 
Mowich
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#4
Quote: Originally Posted by selinView Post

everyone dreams the fall of America but the only fall which happens is dreams they have... so nevermind , wait and see , the nature and fate are more powerful , fair...

Not all of us dream of the fall of America, Selin. Some of us here in Canada realize that our close ties to the US mean that if they fail we will surely suffer. The economic impact of the implosion of the US would be catastrophic and would reach far beyond our borders and theirs.
 
selin
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#5
Quote: Originally Posted by MowichView Post

Not all of us dream of the fall of America, Selin. Some of us here in Canada realize that our close ties to the US mean that if they fail we will surely suffer. The economic impact of the implosion of the US would be catastrophic and would reach far beyond our borders and theirs.


you are right and this is what a good citizen should think for his country but there is other side of the medal ,think in opposite side, i mean, for the countries suffering from the issues and attacks of America ,so they are also right to think like this
 
china
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#6
America needs one more home war ;cleans itself from the malignant liberals .The sooner the better .
 
SirJosephPorter
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#7
I don’t know what is meant by ‘America is not yet lost’, why would America be lost? USA will lose its status as the only superpower, that is undoubtedly true. European Union is coming on strong, not to mention India and China.

But USA will connote to be a strong nation, an international player. It is just that it won’t have ea monopoly on it any longer.
 
SirJosephPorter
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#8
The problem with USA is that the country is too fractured; there is plenty of hatred in its political atmosphere. Currently Republicans are out of power, it can be said without any exaggeration that Republicans wouldn’t mind USA harmed in a serious manner (terrorist attack, financial collapse etc.) if that means that they will get back into power.

They voted against raising the debt limit. If they had been successful in keeping the debt limit same, there would have been financial collapse in USA, USA economy would have been ruined for decades to come. Then there really was a potential for USA to being reduced to a third world power. But that would have meant Democrats losing power, Republicans winning the power back and Republicans were OK with that.

Democrats are probably no different; they opposed Bush continuously for eight years. Republicans are doing the same now. They don’t have a single proposal as to how to fix the problems USA is in (except to cut taxes for the rich), they can simply oppose each and every initiative proposed by democrats and win the power back. Then democrats will perpetually oppose anything Republicans want to do and the whole madness countinues.

When a country comes to the stage that a political party would want to win power at the cost of ruining the country, that country is finished. There is no sense of togetherness, trying to solve the problems of the country together, no sense that we are in this together. It is Democrats vs. Republicans, nothing else matters. When that is the reality, the country faces a bleak future.
Last edited by SirJosephPorter; Feb 8th, 2010 at 06:10 PM..
 
SirJosephPorter
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#9
Quote: Originally Posted by MowichView Post

Not all of us dream of the fall of America, Selin. Some of us here in Canada realize that our close ties to the US mean that if they fail we will surely suffer. The economic impact of the implosion of the US would be catastrophic and would reach far beyond our borders and theirs.

At the rate the Democrats and Republicans are going Mowich, very likely it may happen. I think Canada should be prepared. We should try to increase our trade with EU, with India, china etc. and try to reduce our dependence upon US trade.

Even then if US collapses we would still be hit, but perhaps the impact may be lessened.
 
ironsides
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#10
This bickering between the Democrats and Republicans, is just that bickering. When one party or another gets to much. or thinks they can do anything they want, the people (so called silent majority) wake up and spank what ever party is doing it. Obama and the Democrats thought they had the blessing of the people, they didn't. They only had a majority of those who voted at that time. With the Republicans, it was the same thing. I agree that when the dust settles, there will be another world super power, but so what. The Chinese people have a right to have what we have, just have to pay their dues. Conditions in the U.S. may not be the same as it was, but still better than most. As to the future, anyone really have a crystal ball?


By the way, the so called silent majority are not diehard Republican or Democrat. but independent voters who usually do not get involved. They just wake up now and then.
 
DaSleeper
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#11
Spending and Taxing your way out of a recession is not the way....The administration should follow the teachings of Arthur Laffer......
 
ironsides
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#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

At the rate the Democrats and Republicans are going Mowich, very likely it may happen. I think Canada should be prepared. We should try to increase our trade with EU, with India, china etc. and try to reduce our dependence upon US trade.

Even then if US collapses we would still be hit, but perhaps the impact may be lessened.

If the U.S. collapses, all of N. America will collapse. We are tied to closely together, especially with Canada.
 
SirJosephPorter
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#13
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

If the U.S. collapses, all of N. America will collapse. We are tied to closely together, especially with Canada.

I agree, ironsides. That is why i think Canada should try to increase the trade with other countries, especially the EU and Far East.
 
AnnaG
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#14
"America Is Not Yet Lost"

I agree. I know exactly where it is from here.
 
SirJosephPorter
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#15
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

This bickering between the Democrats and Republicans, is just that bickering. When one party or another gets to much. or thinks they can do anything they want, the people (so called silent majority) wake up and spank what ever party is doing it. Obama and the Democrats thought they had the blessing of the people, they didn't. They only had a majority of those who voted at that time. With the Republicans, it was the same thing. I agree that when the dust settles, there will be another world super power, but so what.

There will be another superpower, but USA will still remain a very rich and powerful country.

The real threat to USA is not from outside, but from inside. Consider the next election. Whether Democrats retain control of the Senate or not, it is clear that they will end up far short of 60 seats.

Then what happens when they try to raise the debt ceiling yet again? Republicans oppose it (interestingly, when Republicans were in power they voted to raise the debt ceiling every year, for 12 years), and it does not get raised, because Democrats don’t have the 60 votes necessary. Do you really think that USA can continue to function as a might economic power if it has to default on its debt, it has to cut everything seriously, including defense, social security, spending for infrastructure etc.?

The shenanigans between Republicans ad Democrats may well drive your country into a depression.
 
ironsides
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#16
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

I agree, ironsides. That is why i think Canada should try to increase the trade with other countries, especially the EU and Far East.

To late now, what's done is done. We either survive together or sink, but I do not think sinking is a option or possibility in the foreseeable future.
 
SirJosephPorter
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#17
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

To late now, what's done is done. We either survive together or sink, but I do not think sinking is a option or possibility in the foreseeable future.

Not necessarily. We don't when when the economic Armageddon will come, if ever. If Canada starts increasing her trade with non US countries, she will progressively be better prepared as time goes on.

I think there will always continue to be strong trade between Canada and USA, but the impact of economic Armageddon could at least be mitigated, if Canada increase trade with other countries.
 
Bar Sinister
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#18
The problem with the US government is that it was designed around the idea of a weak central government. As a result it was structured to allow one section of the government to impede the other sections of government. The idea was that this would force all parts of government to work together on legislation. Unfortunately, the way the government has evolved promotes political deadlock, so much so that it is almost impossible to get any really meaningful legislation passed. The current health care bill is a perfect example of this. In spite of the fact that it is predicted that US health care costs (already the highest per capita in the world) are expected to double in a few years, the health care reform proposed by the Democrats has still not passed. It is an example of obstructionism pushed to an extreme. Given the number of problems the US must deal with political reform is desperately needed, however, this is very unlikely to happen given the current political climate in the US.

The US is a great nation, blessed with many intelligent people and huge resources, but it is paralyzed by its outmoded political system.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#19
America Is Not Yet Lost

Too bad.
 
SirJosephPorter
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#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar SinisterView Post

The problem with the US government is that it was designed around the idea of a weak central government. As a result it was structured to allow one section of the government to impede the other sections of government. The idea was that this would force all parts of government to work together on legislation. Unfortunately, the way the government has evolved promotes political deadlock, so much so that it is almost impossible to get any really meaningful legislation passed. The current health care bill is a perfect example of this. In spite of the fact that it is predicted that US health care costs (already the highest per capita in the world) are expected to double in a few years, the health care reform proposed by the Democrats has still not passed. It is an example of obstructionism pushed to an extreme. Given the number of problems the US must deal with political reform is desperately needed, however, this is very unlikely to happen given the current political climate in the US.

The US is a great nation, blessed with many intelligent people and huge resources, but it is paralyzed by its outmoded political system.

Among all the democracies, it is most important in USA, that the two parties work together, otherwise nothing gets done.

That is not the case in Canada or Britain. In our system, if one party has the majority, they don’t need to consult the opposition parties, they can set the agenda and implement it (and people will pass judgment on them at the next election). Even in a minority situation, there need not be much consultation (as Harper is demonstrating).

So in places like Canada, it is not essential that different parties work together. However, it is absolutely essential in the US system. That is not happening any more, and so the system has broken down.

In short, US political parties are behaving like Canadian or British political parties. Now, in Canada or Britain, it doesn’t matter, the system is designed in such a way that the parties don’t have to work together. But in USA it is absolutely essential, and that is why US polity is a sick, broken down system.
 
ironsides
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#21
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

Not necessarily. We don't when when the economic Armageddon will come, if ever. If Canada starts increasing her trade with non US countries, she will progressively be better prepared as time goes on.

I think there will always continue to be strong trade between Canada and USA, but the impact of economic Armageddon could at least be mitigated, if Canada increase trade with other countries.

Possibly, but I think that the EU will go before the U.S. Thus giving us (both of us) customers as we pull them out of their depression again. Asia I think is in a much better position than we are to ride this out.
 
ironsides
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#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar SinisterView Post

The problem with the US government is that it was designed around the idea of a weak central government. As a result it was structured to allow one section of the government to impede the other sections of government. The idea was that this would force all parts of government to work together on legislation. Unfortunately, the way the government has evolved promotes political deadlock, so much so that it is almost impossible to get any really meaningful legislation passed. The current health care bill is a perfect example of this. In spite of the fact that it is predicted that US health care costs (already the highest per capita in the world) are expected to double in a few years, the health care reform proposed by the Democrats has still not passed. It is an example of obstructionism pushed to an extreme. Given the number of problems the US must deal with political reform is desperately needed, however, this is very unlikely to happen given the current political climate in the US.

The US is a great nation, blessed with many intelligent people and huge resources, but it is paralyzed by its outmoded political system.

One big thing you left out when you mentioned the Health bill, and that is the majority of Americans do not want it in the format Obama is trying to force down our throats. Big brother does not know best. There are some out there trying to be like Don Quixote de la Mancha, well intentioned but their ideals are not everybody's. If the Senate would give up their "Cadillac" health plan for a public option they may have better luck. The U.S. goverment usually works pretty smoothly and things do get done somehow. Were not ready for a absolute leader just yet, not many countries are.
 
Bar Sinister
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#23
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

One big thing you left out when you mentioned the Health bill, and that is the majority of Americans do not want it in the format Obama is trying to force down our throats. Big brother does not know best. There are some out there trying to be like Don Quixote de la Mancha, well intentioned but their ideals are not everybody's. If the Senate would give up their "Cadillac" health plan for a public option they may have better luck. The U.S. goverment usually works pretty smoothly and things do get done somehow. Were not ready for a absolute leader just yet, not many countries are.

It is unfortunate that you think a bill to lower US health care costs and extend services to those who do not have health care is forcing something down your throat. The US system is incredibly expensive, inequitable, and inefficient. The Obama health care bill was a first step in bringing the US into line with what people in other modern nations take for granted. Even simply copying the flawed Canadian health care system would have been an improvement. Sadly, corporate interests and the reactionary right wing media have created a sense of hysteria over what should have been a simple restructuring of a seriously flawed system.
Good luck enjoying paying your continually increasing health care premiums.
 
ironsides
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#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar SinisterView Post

It is unfortunate that you think a bill to lower US health care costs and extend services to those who do not have health care is forcing something down your throat. The US system is incredibly expensive, inequitable, and inefficient. The Obama health care bill was a first step in bringing the US into line with what people in other modern nations take for granted. Even simply copying the flawed Canadian health care system would have been an improvement. Sadly, corporate interests and the reactionary right wing media have created a sense of hysteria over what should have been a simple restructuring of a seriously flawed system.
Good luck enjoying paying your continually increasing health care premiums.

The system I admit has to be repaired, but to destroy the best medical system money can buy to give everyone something is like taking away their Cadillac's and giving them clunkers. The system can and must be fixed, make affordable health insurance available to everyone, but do not destroy what we already have that works. By the way, I never personally paid anything for my health plan, except what I paid into Medicare that the goverment squandered away paying for things having nothing to do with Medicare.
 
Johnnny
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#25
America isnt done yet they have a reserve fleet at the Puget Sound, the airforce reserve in Georgia and who knows how many else reserves they have for the army. Lots of fightin left
 
SirJosephPorter
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#26
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

The system I admit has to be repaired, but to destroy the best medical system money can buy to give everyone something is like taking away their Cadillac's and giving them clunkers. The system can and must be fixed, make affordable health insurance available to everyone, but do not destroy what we already have that works.

System must be fixed? Don't hold your breath. After two failed attempts, Democrats wouldn't touch health care with a ten meter pole. Republicans of course don't want to fix the system, they like the system just fine.

The recent election in Massachusetts has made sure that there won't be another attempt at health care reform for at least a generation.
 
eh1eh
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#27
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaGView Post

"America Is Not Yet Lost"

I agree. I know exactly where it is from here.


So does the Illuminati, so were good here not to mention all the Uranium we have, oh ya all that &ucking oil, not to mention half the periodical table in our possession in copious quantities, 'sigh' Why is everything so complected?
We are the 51st state with full autonomy.
I'm Mc liking it.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

System must be fixed? Don't hold your breath. After two failed attempts, Democrats wouldn't touch health care with a ten meter pole. Republicans of course don't want to fix the system, they like the system just fine.

The recent election in Massachusetts has made sure that there won't be another attempt at health care reform for at least a generation.

It will be fixed and sooner than you think.
 
ironsides
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#29
The United States has always been polarized politically, this is not the first time this has happened and will not be the last. These different ideas is what makes us great, when push comes to shove we usually do the right thing. We do not have to do what the world or other countries may like or think, as long as were satisfied with the result. We still are a united country.
 
countryboy
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#30
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

The United States has always been polarized politically, this is not the first time this has happened and will not be the last. These different ideas is what makes us great, when push comes to shove we usually do the right thing. We do not have to do what the world or other countries may like or think, as long as were satisfied with the result. We still are a united country.

Two things surprised me when I joined this Canadian Content forum not long ago.

1. How many opinions there were about the U.S.
2. How many negative opinions there were about the U.S.

I guess a lot of people must feel the U.S. is important or they wouldn't take so much time to comment on it.

By the way, I agree with everything you said in your post, and most especially with your last sentence..."We are still a united country." Very true, in my opinion too.

I think we are still struggling with that issue in Canada, but it doesn't make the headlines as often as it used to. It wasn't that long ago when "Canadian Unity" was a big election issue. Other problems have since risen higher on the list of things to worry about here.

One thing is certain - every country has problems to deal with, no exceptions.
 

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