Best solution for defending Arctic sovereignty?
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
Mine isn't a popular view.
People have been living in the Arctic for eons. They ought to be sovereign people. They ought to be able to go to the UN and declare not only their hunting grounds, but also their nationality, be it Canadian or an independent nation, or hedge their bets on another country like the US or Russia.
People have been living in the Arctic for eons. They ought to be sovereign people. They ought to be able to go to the UN and declare not only their hunting grounds, but also their nationality, be it Canadian or an independent nation, or hedge their bets on another country like the US or Russia.
I could be open to that as long as they do it in conformity with international laws.
I gues I'd support militarization if the other nations disputing our borders refused binding arbitration at the UN or accepted it but then chose to ignore the ruling.
But I see militarization prior to at least offering binding arbitration to be irrisponsible at best.
But I see militarization prior to at least offering binding arbitration to be irrisponsible at best.
Re: Development of Canada’s North
I would suggest that we need to use several approaches together as one strategy.
Keep a strong Canadian Forces presence in Canada’s North
The Canadian Forces should have a strong presence in Canada’s North as a deterrence to those nations who would seek to lay claim to our sovereign areas due solely to us not being able to defend those areas. I think that having a strong presence there—just through that one act—would deter the United States of America, and other nations that have northern interests, from making such claims without very articulate arguments. It might even be adviseable for us to create several northern Canadian Forces Bases, perhaps one per each of the territories.
Populate Canada’s North
Having an Arctic presence is useless to us unless we plan to use the territories that we’re holding onto, and for that reason, I think it’s time that Her Majesty’s Government for Canada, particularly the Ministry of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, begin a massive campaign to promote residence in the Arctic and northern regions of the nation. There is much to be said for the culture and traditions of Canada’s northern peoples, and this would be a way to bring attention and awareness to what remains a relatively-secluded, unknown society to non-northern, mainstream Canada. I’m sure there are Canadians, or even new immigrants, who would greatly value the quieter nature of Canada’s North.
Strengthen Government services in Canada’s North
With the above two recommendations, this one would be essential. The Government needs to work together with the Governments of the Territories to ensure that Government services are up to par with the rest of Canada, and that other institutions—educational and health institutions, for example—are up to the task of supporting a larger, more urban population. As we populate Canada’s North, the task of developing existing townships and cities into urban centres is going to be a monumental task that should require a good deal of federal and territorial coordination—it would make sense for each of the territories to create a Ministry of Urban Development to work parallel to the federal Northern Development department.
Addendum: Explanation of Votes
I voted for all of the options that you presented, because I think that any successful strategy to strengthen Canada’s Arctic presence, and to ensure our northern sovereignty, is going to require a certain amount of each of those options. We’re going to need a stronger Canadian Forces presence (because no nation can defend its sovereignty where there are no able defenders), we’re going to need to negotiate and seek the assistance of third parties, we’re going to need to be strong and forceful with our defense of our territories, and we’re going to need to be gentle and diplomatic, depending on the circumstances. This is a very complex issue.
I would suggest that we need to use several approaches together as one strategy.
Keep a strong Canadian Forces presence in Canada’s North
The Canadian Forces should have a strong presence in Canada’s North as a deterrence to those nations who would seek to lay claim to our sovereign areas due solely to us not being able to defend those areas. I think that having a strong presence there—just through that one act—would deter the United States of America, and other nations that have northern interests, from making such claims without very articulate arguments. It might even be adviseable for us to create several northern Canadian Forces Bases, perhaps one per each of the territories.
Populate Canada’s North
Having an Arctic presence is useless to us unless we plan to use the territories that we’re holding onto, and for that reason, I think it’s time that Her Majesty’s Government for Canada, particularly the Ministry of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, begin a massive campaign to promote residence in the Arctic and northern regions of the nation. There is much to be said for the culture and traditions of Canada’s northern peoples, and this would be a way to bring attention and awareness to what remains a relatively-secluded, unknown society to non-northern, mainstream Canada. I’m sure there are Canadians, or even new immigrants, who would greatly value the quieter nature of Canada’s North.
Strengthen Government services in Canada’s North
With the above two recommendations, this one would be essential. The Government needs to work together with the Governments of the Territories to ensure that Government services are up to par with the rest of Canada, and that other institutions—educational and health institutions, for example—are up to the task of supporting a larger, more urban population. As we populate Canada’s North, the task of developing existing townships and cities into urban centres is going to be a monumental task that should require a good deal of federal and territorial coordination—it would make sense for each of the territories to create a Ministry of Urban Development to work parallel to the federal Northern Development department.
Addendum: Explanation of Votes
I voted for all of the options that you presented, because I think that any successful strategy to strengthen Canada’s Arctic presence, and to ensure our northern sovereignty, is going to require a certain amount of each of those options. We’re going to need a stronger Canadian Forces presence (because no nation can defend its sovereignty where there are no able defenders), we’re going to need to negotiate and seek the assistance of third parties, we’re going to need to be strong and forceful with our defense of our territories, and we’re going to need to be gentle and diplomatic, depending on the circumstances. This is a very complex issue.
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Sure, if it's combined with level-headed diplomacy.
Now this comes across like Israel's settlers in the Westbank encouraged by government incentives, or Chinese Han moving to Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, etc. attracted by government incentives.
A massive inflow into the Arctic would likely threaten the local population. I think a better option could be to give people financial insentives to move to the North while at the same time requiring their children to attend the normal Inuktitut-medium and other Aboriginal public schools that the locals attend, or at least have to learn one of Nunavut's official languages as a second-language in school. The migrants should integrate to the local community and not the other way around like it is in the south.
How far do we go with this? Do we tax people and then use their own money to pressure them to go North?
Indeed, snowballs and a fart will do it!!!
You run, and I'll vote for ya, oh lone one. Wolfie for PM
Throw snowballs at the Ruskies and the US Marines, then fart'n'run.
Sic the Canadian Polar Bears on em.
Or the Inuit Artic Rangers.......That'll really scare em.
Snowmobiles at 20 paces.
The only part of the Canada's arctic border that's in dispute is the offshore border between the Yukon and Alaska. I would be willing to concede that to the US.
The Russians aren't claiming anything closer to us than the North Pole.
The Danes seem willing to settle their differences amicably regarding our border with Greenland. One island is in dispute and recent surveys support Denmark's claim.
The part of the arctic which concerns me are US claims that the NW passage is an international waterway. I disagree. Someone has to regulate it and clean up spills. They probably just want the right to send warships through the passage. I don't see a problem with that either as long as they clean up after themselves and respect the environment.
Canada should develop a capability to monitor and destroy if necessary anything which moves in the our region of the arctic. The means planes, ships and submarines. That's best done from the air.
The Russians aren't claiming anything closer to us than the North Pole.
The Danes seem willing to settle their differences amicably regarding our border with Greenland. One island is in dispute and recent surveys support Denmark's claim.
The part of the arctic which concerns me are US claims that the NW passage is an international waterway. I disagree. Someone has to regulate it and clean up spills. They probably just want the right to send warships through the passage. I don't see a problem with that either as long as they clean up after themselves and respect the environment.
Canada should develop a capability to monitor and destroy if necessary anything which moves in the our region of the arctic. The means planes, ships and submarines. That's best done from the air.
Earth_as_one: I would not concede the Arctic shelf to the US as it is one of the most oil rich regions there. Following the Yukon -Alaska border to the pole is the most logical.
I agree with you on the NWP as it is Canadian territory all around it. Of course all this only makes sense if you buy into the global warming myth.
I agree with you on the NWP as it is Canadian territory all around it. Of course all this only makes sense if you buy into the global warming myth.
No, it's not very popular with me either Karrie.
If the Inuit can declare whatever sovereignty they wish what about the Dene?
So now we are talking about the Provinces and not just the Territories.
And if the Dene can take whatever part of a Province out of Canada and join whatever other country they wish( Russia?) what about the Mohawks?
And how about the Metis?
Who picks?
You?
Me?
The Indigenous peoples?
Yours is a recipe for disaster I fear.
To each his own.
Trex
You're completely wrong.
Every single northern border we have is under dispute.
The Americans dispute their boundaries with Canada.
The Russians dispute Canada's boundaries.
The EU says the high arctic should be under their administration and so they dispute Canada's northern boundaries.
The Danish dispute Canada's northern boundaries.
The Norwegians dispute our borders.
Iceland and Greenland are negotiating independence from Denmark and have indicated that they too will dispute Canada's boundaries if they become independent.
And most seagoing countries dispute Canada's control(as an internal passage) of any potential northern waterways.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
Use it or lose it.
Trex
Spot on and well said.
Use it or lose it is the bottom line.
If Canada fails to show and interest in the far north others will.
And once others are on the ground and in place it becomes very difficult for Canada to snivel and whine about infringements on its territorial borders.
Land, money, and resources like oil and gas are potentially up for grabs.
Countries like Russia and China unfortunately do tend respect power and strength over all.
Thus Canada taking the flower child approach of mutual love and fairness may not wash with some other nations.
We need a military presence and increasing development in the far north if we care about its future.
Trex
Arctic Council - any questions about our arctic sovereignty ? ask the arctic council..It will be groups and commitees like these that will make the rules in the arctic around their interests.."We the people" have no say in the direction the arctic will take..Especially if there's resources rich, greedy, business/politicians can stake claims to ..make $$$ on, right NOW, for the future.. !...They'll sell our futures to the highest bidder.When all hell breaks loose..they'll use the money they made to build they're own biosphere's to live in..:?:;-):smile:..So got no money..Got no say!..Unfortunately that's the world we tend to live in...
Canada’s Northern Strategy
Arctic strategy documents
peopleandplanet.net > biodiversity > newsfile > new russian arctic park to protect key polar bear habitat
Campaigning to protect America
WWF - The Arctic - Protecting Arctic Environments
WWF - New Russian Arctic Park to Protect Key Polar Bear Habitat -
Hunted near extinction, blue whales returning to Alaska | KIDK CBS 3 - News, Weather and Sports - Idaho Falls - Pocatello - Blackfoot, ID - Idaho Falls, Pocatello, Blackfoot - Idaho | National & World News
Europe takes first step towards minerals Arctic policy to protect energy security | Environment | guardian.co.uk
anwr.org - Wildlife Protection
When it comes to resources /wildlife and the Arctic...There are many concerns to discuss ...Here are a few links to get an idea of the issues at hand...
My fear/greatest concern is the Arctic will be torn apart and used for resources with little care for anything else...Seems to be the way big business and governments work..Break up all the ice ..tear the arctic into little pieces ,split it amongst the hord till there's nothing left ..Blame the effects/consequences on global warming..."natural causes..
Hope leaders of Arctic council and others who have interest in the Arctic, will do what is best for ALL who live,respect and are involved/evolving in the arctic environment...
The Arctic has been called "the final frontier" ..I sure hope not! ...lets respect it ..OR ELSE!..MAMA NATURE WILL GET P.O'D!..:icon_smile:
Canada’s Northern Strategy
Arctic strategy documents
peopleandplanet.net > biodiversity > newsfile > new russian arctic park to protect key polar bear habitat
Campaigning to protect America
WWF - The Arctic - Protecting Arctic Environments
WWF - New Russian Arctic Park to Protect Key Polar Bear Habitat -
Hunted near extinction, blue whales returning to Alaska | KIDK CBS 3 - News, Weather and Sports - Idaho Falls - Pocatello - Blackfoot, ID - Idaho Falls, Pocatello, Blackfoot - Idaho | National & World News
Europe takes first step towards minerals Arctic policy to protect energy security | Environment | guardian.co.uk
anwr.org - Wildlife Protection
When it comes to resources /wildlife and the Arctic...There are many concerns to discuss ...Here are a few links to get an idea of the issues at hand...
My fear/greatest concern is the Arctic will be torn apart and used for resources with little care for anything else...Seems to be the way big business and governments work..Break up all the ice ..tear the arctic into little pieces ,split it amongst the hord till there's nothing left ..Blame the effects/consequences on global warming..."natural causes..
Hope leaders of Arctic council and others who have interest in the Arctic, will do what is best for ALL who live,respect and are involved/evolving in the arctic environment...
The Arctic has been called "the final frontier" ..I sure hope not! ...lets respect it ..OR ELSE!..MAMA NATURE WILL GET P.O'D!..:icon_smile:
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Um, Iceland already is a sovereign state. Grab a coffee and catch up to the rest of the planet.
(just ribbing you)Um, Iceland already is a sovereign state. Grab a coffee and catch up to the rest of the planet.
Right you are Anna.
My humble apologies to any Icelanders.
A slip of the old neurons.
And best of luck with that complete fiscal meltdown and the EU membership thing.
And they will dispute our northern boundaries and they will strip mine our seas with draggers for available fish first chance they get.
Trex