20,000 Pakistan troops go to India border

Liberalman

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CBC,ca has just reported that 20,000 Pakistan troops are being sent to the India order. http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/12/26/pakistan border.html

India plans to launch missiles against militant bases in Pakistan in retaliation to the Mumbai terrorist attacks

All Pakistan soldier leave have been cancelled and they being deployed immediately.

Since Pakistan is refusing to hunt down the terrorist that reside in their country India will do it.

Pakistan must be taught that terrorism will not be tolerated.
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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The last essay of Bertrand Russell - mathematician, philosopher, and peace activist- written at the age of 95 and simply referenced as "1967" outlined the flawed nature of man, his governments, and their response in times of crises. The essay also presents hope and alternatives to the ineffable horror of modern warfare. It's worth a read. Click here.
 

Scott Free

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The last essay of Bertrand Russell - mathematician, philosopher, and peace activist- written at the age of 95 and simply referenced as "1967" outlined the flawed nature of man, his governments, and their response in times of crises. The essay also presents hope and alternatives to the ineffable horror of modern warfare. It's worth a read. Click here.

"Consider for a moment what our planet is and what it might be. At present, for most, there is toil and hunger, constant danger, more hatred than love. There could be a happy world, where co-operation was more in evidence than competition, and monotonous work is done by machines, where what is lovely in nature is not destroyed to make room for hideous machines whose sole business is to kill, and where to promote joy is more respected than to produce mountains of corpses. Do not say this is impossible: it is not. It waits only for men to desire it more than the infliction of torture. "

This is quite an assumption on his part. I don't know of any community in nature that doesn't have pain and suffering (unless they lack nerves). It seems very reasonable to think that life without it is impossible when we look at nature and its organization. If you remove pain and suffering then extinction is made certain; at least that is the case in every model I know of.

Life is a horror and the Utopian dreams of religion and poets is nonsensical. It is only possible in a disassociated mind outside of the obvious realities that compose nature.

All things come to an end and mankind will too - no exceptions.
 

Scott Free

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Russell is presenting choice. You declare what that choice will be.

He isn't though. He is presenting a pipe dream - the consolation of an old man near his end: that a solution is possible. Where he failed he hopes future men will be different. Somehow just "change" and be what he was not; what he couldn't be; what it is impossible for any of us to be.

I understand why people like this kind of drivel but it isn't very practical.
 

Spade

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If our star blinks out, the universe will be indifferent. But, for six billion of us, many of whom are not indifferent, "this kind of drivel' is the only viable alternative!
 

Scott Free

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Alternative?

To "just be different" is no alternative. It is dreaming and wish thinking. We need to find sustainable systems within the physical realities that compose us. We need death and famine or every square inch of the planet would have a human in it. War also serves this function.

If you wish there was no war, no famine, no disease then you must come up with an equally viable solution.
 

Spade

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Scott Free malthused:''We need death and famine or every square inch of the planet would have a human in it. War also serves this function."

And a view from the South Asia Times. Click here.
 
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Scott Free

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It isn't just population that the macabre regulates. Our economies need it too as does our health and our societies.

There is no way around it: death and misery, while nasty and unfair, is required. They are simply a part of life. The price that must be paid for the few good times.

There are a number of villages in Africa where they have found one solution. A rather good one IMO. They kill anyone over the age of 40 for being a witch. This means they have gotten rid of most debilitating and terminal illness. The problem though is that their cultures are immature and lack history. Everything is a trade off.
 

Spade

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Whenever I tuck myself in with a good read such as "A Canticle for Leibowitz" or "The Road." I muse that the Scott Frees are right; and, damn it, the planet would be better off after uncountable millenia of healing. But, then again, I have children...
 

Scott Free

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I think you miss understood. I don't want mankind wiped out. I just don't think wishing things were different is going to make them so. Any solutions we find for the issues of war, famine and disease are going to be just as horrific looking. We don't like those things which makes them horrific. They have no innate horror factor - a substantive thing called "horror." We don't like them, that is all, and any alternatives are likely to be just as unpopular. But unpopular and disliked does not mean they aren't important and necessary; clearly they are. We would not be here today without them and if not for them. We are the strong survivors of a long system. If we mean to get rid of them then we will need to replace them. That is all I meant.
 

Praxius

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Ok, just skimming through here for a second, this thread started off about India and Pakistan about to start sh*t with one another, and now everybody is talking about Orcas?

WTF?

In fact, nobody really even responded to the original topic in the first place and went off on some philosophical trip about human existence.


Pakistani protesters burn an Indian flag during a rally in Karachi, Pakistan on Friday, Dec. 26, 2008.

Pakistan moving troops from Afghan to Indian border
CTV.ca | Pakistan moving troops from Afghan to Indian border

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- Pakistan has started to redeploy thousands of troops to the Indian border from the tribal areas near Afghanistan, intelligence officials said Friday, raising tensions in the aftermath of the Mumbai terror attacks.

The move was expected to frustrate the United States, which has been pushing Pakistan to step up its fight against al-Qaida and Taliban militants near the Afghan border.

India has blamed Pakistani-based militants for last month's siege on its financial capital, which killed 164 people and has provoked an increasingly bitter war of words between nuclear-armed neighbours that have fought three wars in 60 years.

The troops headed to the Indian border were being diverted away from tribal areas near Afghanistan, the two officials said. They said elements of the army's 14th Infantry Division were being redeployed to the towns of Kasur and Sialkot, close to the Indian border.

The military began the troop movement Thursday and plans to shift a total of 20,000 soldiers, they said without providing a timeframe.

Earlier Friday, a security official said all troop leave had been cancelled.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation.

India and Pakistan have said they want to avoid military conflict over the attacks. But India has not ruled out the use of force as it presses its neighbour to crack down on the Pakistani-based terrorist group it blames for the attack.

Pakistani Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has promised to respond aggressively if attacked but reassured India Friday that Pakistan would not strike first.

"We will not take any action on our own," Gilani told reporters. "There will be no aggression from our side."

Meanwhile, Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee accused Pakistan of trying to divert attention away from its struggle to rein in homegrown terror groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba, which Delhi accuses of masterminding the Mumbai attacks.

"They should concentrate on the real issue: how to fight against terrorists and how to fight against and bring to book the perpetrators of (the) Bombay terrorist attack," he said.

Pakistan has arrested several senior members of the banned group and cracked down on a charity the United States and UN say was a front for Lashkar. India has demanded greater action, but Pakistan says it needs to share evidence backing up its claims.

Mukherjee responded Friday by saying India had provided more than enough evidence about the militants, who infiltrated Mumbai by sea.

"We have indicated to them that there are ample evidences from the log book of the captured ship, from the information available from satellite telephones and various others that elements from Pakistan were responsible for this attack," Mukherjee told reporters.

Earlier, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh met Friday with the chiefs of the army, navy and air force to discuss "the prevailing security situation," according to an official statement.

An Associated Press reporter in Dera Ismail Khan, a district that borders Pakistan's militant-infested South Waziristan tribal area, said he saw around 25 trucks loaded with soldiers and equipment heading away from the Afghan border Friday.

A senior security official confirmed that soldiers were being moved out of the border area, but said it was "a limited number from areas where they were not engaged in any operation."

He declined further comment and asked his name not be used, citing the sensitivity of the situation.

The White House said it was discussing the reported troop movements with U.S. embassies in the region and was urging both countries to co-operate in investigating the attacks and fighting terrorism.

"We hope that both sides will avoid taking steps that will unnecessarily raise tensions during these already tense times," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe.

Analysts said the redeployment was likely meant as a warning to India not to launch missile strikes against militant targets on its territory, a response that some have speculated is possible.

"It is a message to India that if you think you can get away with strikes, you are sadly mistaken," said Talat Masood, a retired general and military analyst based in Islamabad.

Wait one damn second here..... how can the US tell India not to strike into Pakistan, all the while the US continues to do this exact thing whenever they so please?

Hypocracy.

Pakistan and India have fought three wars since their independence from Britain in 1947, two over Kashmir, a Muslim majority region in the Himalayas claimed by both countries.

They came close to a fourth after suspected Pakistani militants attacked India's parliament in 2001. Both countries massed hundreds of thousands of troops to the disputed Kashmir region, but tensions cooled after intensive international diplomacy.

News of the buildup comes as Indian officials say militant activity in Indian Kashmir has fallen to its lowest levels since an anti-India militant movement began there in 1989.

The number of militant attacks fell 40 per cent from 2007-2008, reaching 709 this year from roughly 1,100 last year, Kuldeep Khoda, a senior police official, said in a statement.

Police say there are 850 militants fighting in the region, including followers of Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is widely believed to be a creation of Pakistani intelligence in the 1980s and used to fight Indian-rule in Kashmir.

Indian authorities say the decrease in attacks is the result of an experienced security apparatus that has struck at the heart of many militant groups -- Khoda said Indian forces have killed about 350 militants this year, including some top-ranking commanders. But they also say that the militants have scaled back their attacks as a large public protest movement gained momentum since last summer.

Pakistan has deployed more than 100,000 soldiers in Waziristan and other northwestern regions to fight Islamic militants blamed for surging violence against western troops in Afghanistan as well as suicide attacks in Pakistan.

Security officials have previously said the country would be forced to withdraw troops from the Afghan border if tensions with India -- whose army is twice as large -- escalated.

"This is a serious blow to the war on terror in the sense that the whole focus is now shifting toward the eastern border," said Masood. "It will give more leeway to the militants and increased space to operate."

The United States wants Pakistan to stay focused on the fight against militants in the border region, where Osama bin Laden and other top al-Qaida leaders are believed to be hiding.

There, maybe with a bit more information, some can stay on track with the topic perhaps?
 

earth_as_one

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Canada's mission in Afghanistan is affected by this event. The Pakistani military was cracking down on the militants in their northern frontier who cross into Afghanistan to attack Canadian soldiers.

The purpose of the militants who attacked Mumbai in a suicide mission last month was to increase tensions between Pakistan and India and force Pakistan to withdraw their troops from the frontier with Afghanistan. I guess their mission was successful.
 

Praxius

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Canada's mission in Afghanistan is affected by this event. The Pakistani military was cracking down on the militants in their northern frontier who cross into Afghanistan to attack Canadian soldiers.

Yes, however, if the above information is true, and that the amount they have sent towards India are not troops who have been involved in previous counter-terrorist activities and will not disrupt their current missions.

If this is true, then good, if not, then they're lying arse puckers and should have all of their nuclear missile locations located, targeted, stratigically taken out by nuclear strikes, which might trigger a chain nuclear reaction with the targets, thereby crippling not only their nuclear capabilities, but their surrounding populations..... then treat them like afghanistan if you want, since they want to act that way.

Will that do any good?

Meh, who knows?

But this isn't anyting new apparently. While they both may want to strike each other and finish this once and for all, the current surrounding situations happening around them and in their own countries will prevent them from risking further stability by attacking one another in any serious form.

So if you're a gambling man, put your money on that there's no serious threat at this time and both are just puffing up their chests at present.

The purpose of the militants who attacked Mumbai in a suicide mission last month was to increase tensions between Pakistan and India and force Pakistan to withdraw their troops from the frontier with Afghanistan. I guess their mission was successful.

Makes sense, but once again, as stated (And if true)

An Associated Press reporter in Dera Ismail Khan, a district that borders Pakistan's militant-infested South Waziristan tribal area, said he saw around 25 trucks loaded with soldiers and equipment heading away from the Afghan border Friday.

A senior security official confirmed that soldiers were being moved out of the border area, but said it was
"a limited number from areas where they were not engaged in any operation."

^ If this is true, then their attempt makes sense, although it failed..... but then again it did get India to get all pissy, India didn't take any forces from the other missions in progress, therefore it still failed. They may have thined their reserves a little, but they didn't thin their lines.