Did the Shoe Thrower Hate America for Its Freedom and Values?

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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by Jacob G. Hornberger

Notice an important aspect of the shoe-throwing incident in Iraq: No one is suggesting that the reason that the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at
President Bush did so because of his hatred for America’s “freedom and values.”

That was the line that Bush, Vice President Cheney, and other U.S. officials immediately issued and repeated ad infinitum, ad nauseam immediately after the 9/11 attacks. They said that the terrorists hated America for its freedom and values, not because of the bad things that U.S. government officials had been doing to people in the Middle East for years.

The shoe-throwing journalist, Muntadar al-Zaidi, eloquently summed up the reason for his pent-up anger and rage by what he yelled as he threw his second shoe at Bush: “This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq!”
Nothing about America’s First Amendment. Nothing about Christianity. Nothing about rock and roll. Instead, one succinct point about the Iraqi people killed by Bush’s army.

It’s that point that all too many Americans have just never permitted themselves to understand or appreciate. It’s always about “the troops” — thanking them, glorifying them, honoring them. It’s never about the Iraqi people who have been killed, maimed, exiled, or made homeless by the massive death and destruction that Bush’s invasion and occupation have wrought on the people of Iraq.

There is also the callous indifference among U.S. officials to the Iraqi dead.

Despite all their highfalutin rhetoric about wanting to help the Iraqi people, U.S. government officials have never given one whit for the Iraqi people, and the Iraqi people know it. Why, since the inception of the invasion and continuing through the seven years of occupation, Pentagon officials have steadfastly refused to even keep count of the Iraqi dead.

The fact is that any number of Iraqi deaths was acceptable to achieve regime change in Iraq. In the minds of U.S. officials, no sacrifice of Iraqi life was too great. Never mind, of course, that the dead were never asked whether they were willing to die for the sake of regime change. Never mind that their children, spouses, parents, and friends might not have considered the sacrifice to have been worth it. All that matters is that U.S. officials believed that sacrificing an unlimited number of Iraqis was worth it.

Of course, that was the same callous mindset that guided U.S. officials during the 1990s. That was the period of time when U.S. officials, after intentionally destroying Iraq’s water and sewage facilities with the aim of spreading illness and disease among the Iraqi populace, imposed one of the most brutal sanctions regime in history on Iraq. When U.S. Ambassador to the UN Madeleine Albright was asked whether the deaths of half-a-million Iraqi children from the sanctions had been “worth it,” her response went to the core of U.S. policy toward the Iraqi people: “I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it.”

That statement, not surprisingly, reverberated throughout the Middle East, raising people’s blood to a boiling point. It had nothing to do with America’s “freedom and values.” Instead, it had to do with a U.S. government policy that caused massive death among Iraqi children, year after year for 11 years, and the callous indifference among U.S. officials to such deaths.

Today, it is not surprising that those who got placed into power in Iraq are happy with Bush’s invasion. It’s also not surprising that the multitudes who have lost loved ones in Bush’s invasion are none too happy about the sacrifices that Bush involuntarily imposed upon them in his war of aggression upon their country. In reflecting on the Iraqi dead and injured and the massive destruction wrought upon their country, we must never forget that neither the Iraqi people nor their government played any role in the 9/11 attacks on America. Maybe the anger and rage manifested by Iraqi journalist Muntadar al-Zaidi will cause more Americans to finally confront not only the horror of U.S. policy toward Iraq but also U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and the rest of the world.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
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BC
I hate the Americans freedom to invade, rape and pillage other peoples countries too. I don't see anything wrong with saying that's what people hate about the USA. It seems reasonable.

Germany had too much freedom of that sort too once. It was reasonable to hate it.

American freedoms and values are deplorable.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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USA
by Jacob G. Hornberger

Maybe the anger and rage manifested by Iraqi journalist Muntadar al-Zaidi will cause more Americans to finally confront not only the horror of U.S. policy toward Iraq but also U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and the rest of the world.

Oh yes...he has changed our country by throwing his shoes!

What a clown
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Regina, Saskatchewan
I'm not a fan of George Bush, but here's a different way to look at things. Due to the
War in Iraq, this reporter was able to throw his shoes at George Bush, and I'm going
to assume that he'll live to be a National Hero to the people in that chunk of the Globe.

If Bush didn't lead the Americans to invade Iraq, and this reporter threw his shoes at,
lets say, Sadam Hussain, would he live to be a Hero? I'm not justifying this War, but
offering an alternate perspective.

If this guy threw his shoes at, let say, Vladimir Putin, what do you think the outcome
would be? Sadam Hussain (I'm assuming) would have shot this guy in seconds.
Vladimir Putin (I'm assuming) would have personally beat the living snot out's this
reporter before passing him onto the KGB. Bush laughed, and told the other reporters
that, at that point, all he could say was that the shoes where a size ten. Doesn't that
say something about America's Freedom and Values?
 
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Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
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Doesn't that
say something about America's Freedom and Values?

No it doesn't. There are plenty of leaders that wouldn't have killed the man (he was severely beaten).

Harper, for example, wouldn't have beaten him or killed him nor would Brown.

I'll grant that Trudeau and Chretien might have taken a swing at him. :lol:
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Notice an important aspect of the shoe-throwing incident in Iraq: No one is suggesting that the reason that the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at President Bush did so because of his hatred for America’s “freedom and values.”

Well I guess one would have to experience those freedoms and values before they could judge if they hate them..... and if those freedoms and values were what the Iraqis are going through right now, even I sure as hell wouldn't like or want them.

That was the line that Bush, Vice President Cheney, and other U.S. officials immediately issued and repeated ad infinitum, ad nauseam immediately after the 9/11 attacks. They said that the terrorists hated America for its freedom and values, not because of the bad things that U.S. government officials had been doing to people in the Middle East for years.

The shoe-throwing journalist, Muntadar al-Zaidi, eloquently summed up the reason for his pent-up anger and rage by what he yelled as he threw his second shoe at Bush: “This is from the widows, the orphans, and those who were killed in Iraq!” Nothing about America’s First Amendment. Nothing about Christianity. Nothing about rock and roll. Instead, one succinct point about the Iraqi people killed by Bush’s army.

It’s that point that all too many Americans have just never permitted themselves to understand or appreciate. It’s always about “the troops” — thanking them, glorifying them, honoring them. It’s never about the Iraqi people who have been killed, maimed, exiled, or made homeless by the massive death and destruction that Bush’s invasion and occupation have wrought on the people of Iraq.

There is also the callous indifference among U.S. officials to the Iraqi dead.

Despite all their highfalutin rhetoric about wanting to help the Iraqi people, U.S. government officials have never given one whit for the Iraqi people, and the Iraqi people know it. Why, since the inception of the invasion and continuing through the seven years of occupation, Pentagon officials have steadfastly refused to even keep count of the Iraqi dead.

The fact is that any number of Iraqi deaths was acceptable to achieve regime change in Iraq. In the minds of U.S. officials, no sacrifice of Iraqi life was too great. Never mind, of course, that the dead were never asked whether they were willing to die for the sake of regime change. Never mind that their children, spouses, parents, and friends might not have considered the sacrifice to have been worth it. All that matters is that U.S. officials believed that sacrificing an unlimited number of Iraqis was worth it.

Of course, that was the same callous mindset that guided U.S. officials during the 1990s. That was the period of time when U.S. officials, after intentionally destroying Iraq’s water and sewage facilities with the aim of spreading illness and disease among the Iraqi populace, imposed one of the most brutal sanctions regime in history on Iraq. When U.S. Ambassador to the UN Madeleine Albright was asked whether the deaths of half-a-million Iraqi children from the sanctions had been “worth it,” her response went to the core of U.S. policy toward the Iraqi people: “I think that is a very hard choice, but the price, we think, the price is worth it.”

Well that sums it up for you.... it's not about protecting the lives and freedoms of innocent people, it's all about meeting someone's selfish agendas at whatever cost, just to flex some muscle to the world to prove they have the capabilities of carrying such actions through.

When the leaders of a nation act like this, then it's time their regime changes as well, because they're sure as hell ain't any better, if not worse then those they point their fingers at.

That statement, not surprisingly, reverberated throughout the Middle East, raising people’s blood to a boiling point. It had nothing to do with America’s “freedom and values.” Instead, it had to do with a U.S. government policy that caused massive death among Iraqi children, year after year for 11 years, and the callous indifference among U.S. officials to such deaths.

Today, it is not surprising that those who got placed into power in Iraq are happy with Bush’s invasion. It’s also not surprising that the multitudes who have lost loved ones in Bush’s invasion are none too happy about the sacrifices that Bush involuntarily imposed upon them in his war of aggression upon their country. In reflecting on the Iraqi dead and injured and the massive destruction wrought upon their country, we must never forget that neither the Iraqi people nor their government played any role in the 9/11 attacks on America. Maybe the anger and rage manifested by Iraqi journalist Muntadar al-Zaidi will cause more Americans to finally confront not only the horror of U.S. policy toward Iraq but also U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and the rest of the world.

Probably not.... they won't see anything until the rest of the Middle East unites against the US and the rest of the Western nations to make it very apparent that what they did was wrong.

And we'll all go down with them.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
I'm not a fan of George Bush, but here's a different way to look at things. Due to the
War in Iraq, this reporter was able to throw his shoes at George Bush, and I'm going
to assume that he'll live to be a National Hero to the people in that chunk of the Globe.

If Bush didn't lead the Americans to invade Iraq, and this reporter threw his shoes at,
lets say, Sadam Hussain, would he live to be a Hero? I'm not justifying this War, but
offering an alternate perspective.

If this guy threw his shoes at, let say, Vladimir Putin, what do you think the outcome
would be? Sadam Hussain (I'm assuming) would have shot this guy in seconds.
Vladimir Putin (I'm assuming) would have personally beat the living snot out's this
reporter before passing him onto the KGB. Bush laughed, and told the other reporters
that, at that point, all he could say was that the shoes where a size ten. Doesn't that
say something about America's Freedom and Values?

You should be aware that Bush often says/claims one thing, only to do the total opposite when our backs are turned, so based on his normal trend of the last 8 years, I'd say no, that doesn't say much about America's Freedom and Values.

If he had any sense of his country's own freedoms and values, he would have understood the guy was pretty pissed off over what has occured in his country and perhaps personally pardoned the guy and asked for him to be let go.

Then none of this would be occuring today with the guy being locked up and claims of him being beaten which could be the only reason why the judge met him in jail, rather then court.

Chances are the guy's been sent off to Syria already to be tortured and beaten some more in order for him to claim he's some kind of terrorist.

I mean, you got a Canadian Citizen just waiting for a flight in the US and posing no harm or threat to anyone, and he's sent off to be tortured for months...... this guy chucked shoes at Bush..... I'll be suprised if the guy is ever shown on TV anytime soon.... certainly not before he get's out of a wheelchair and casts.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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Bush also said yesterday that the Iraqi officials shouldn't overreact to this. I doubt Saddam would've felt the same way.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
Bush also said yesterday that the Iraqi officials shouldn't overreact to this. I doubt Saddam would've felt the same way.

I agree, I can't take it seriously at all, just funny to me.
The shoe thrower will now take over Bin Laden's popularity all over the
muslim world.;-)
 

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
1,826
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RinR..."If Bush didn't lead the Americans to invade Iraq, and this reporter threw his shoes at,
lets say, _Sadam Hussain_, would he live to be a Hero? I'm not justifying this War, but
offering an alternate perspective.

If this guy threw his shoes at, let say, _Vladimir Putin....."

`IF` my aunt had nuts, she`d be my uncle.
We must now all thank the Americans for this notion??

Again, the journalist should have did the world a favor and had that building flattened taking out every cowardly politition, but most importantly, the devil himself, Bush.
 
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Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Praxius..."If Bush didn't lead the Americans to invade Iraq, and this reporter threw his shoes at,
lets say, _Sadam Hussain_, would he live to be a Hero? I'm not justifying this War, but
offering an alternate perspective.

If this guy threw his shoes at, let say, _Vladimir Putin....."

`IF` my aunt had nuts, she`d be my uncle.
We must now all thank the Americans for this notion??

Again, the journalist should have did the world a favor and had that building flattened taking out every cowardly politition, but most importantly, the devil himself, Bush.

You mis quoted me, as I didn't say any of the above.

Added:

And in reference to your comment about all of the cowardly politicians, not all of them are, and it's generalized mentalities like yours that creates people like Bush in the first place, where the innocent caught in the crossfire are just mere collateral.

They are much more then collateral, and the anger, hatred and frustration that keeps all of this going, will keep on going until their families get justice on those who killed the innocent in which they loved and cared for.

Why didn't he do what you suggested? Probably for the same reason why nobody bothered to nuke the green zone to make sure nobody missed Bush..... because some people still has a bit of respect for themselves not to put that many innocent people in harms way to suit their own personal agendas.

Some might not have a problem with it, but many others do.

Bush will get his, I am sure of that...... but I wouldn't want him to get it in any method that would cause more deaths of the innocent in the process.
 
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