Warning! Russia is aggressive!!

[dancing-loon]

UK warns over 'Russia aggression'

UK prime minister Gordon Brown has said NATO and the EU must reassess their relations with the Kremlin to prevent further "Russian aggression".

His comments came amid fears Russia could cut oil and gas flows in the row over Georgia.
Mr Brown, in the Observer, urged the EU to conduct a "root and branch" review of relations with the Kremlin.

Mr Brown wrote the article one day ahead of a summit of European heads of state to discuss the South Ossetia crisis.
.........
Mr Brown said: "When Russia has a grievance over an issue such as South Ossetia, it should act multilaterally by consent rather than unilaterally by force."

"We want Russia to be a good partner in the G8 and other organisations, but it cannot pick and choose which rules to adhere to.
........
"That is why I will argue tomorrow that Russia should accept Georgia's territorial integrity and international mechanisms for addressing these conflicts, and withdraw troops to their previous positions.
.....
He added: "We are also reflecting on the Nato response. We must re-evaluate the alliance's relationship with Russia, and intensify our support to Georgia and others who may face Russian aggression."

More here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7590320.stm
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If they insist Russia should adhere to the rules and act multilaterally, what about Georgia?? Why is Georgia not being condemned?

Georgia's attack came in the middle of the night, like a surprise attack. There was no time to go around and ask how it should react. The answer would have been clear to Russia anyway.... "don't do anything! Keep your hands off!"

To discuss the Georgian/South Ossetian crisis is definitely a good thing, but to reprimand and blame everything on Russia is wrong!

I find the tone of the Western allies rhetoric too bossy and reprimanding and threatening, which is very inappropriate towards big and powerful Russia. It certainly isn't helpful in smoothing out hurt feelings and relations.

 

[MHz]

Pot, kettle, black.
Some things I have read lately.
Any military activity by any NATO country in South Ossetian would be viewed direct attack on Russia. (comes from the Cuba missile crisis).
Seems there were American (and probably Israeli) advisers in Georgia that were promoting the ethnic cleansing that started this latest aspect of a long-standing conflict.

Some high-ranking Russian happened to ask the US how that search for WMD's in Iraq was going, I believe they are still waiting for a reply.

Warships do not usually bring humanitarian aid, they carry goods made for armed conflict.

 

[Zzarchov]

Ok, the only Ethnic cleansing that has gone on, and been confirmed by HRW, was against Ethnic Georgians in South Ossetia.

Georgia is free to act unilaterally on South Ossetia because South Ossetia is part of Georgia.

Other unilateral acts include Canada unilaterally dealing with the FLQ.

Which is pretty much the same situation, Most people in South Ossetia do not want to be ruled by thugs who call themselves an independance movement.

That was shown in an election.

That election is what kicked off the current round of violence when South Ossetian rebels decided they couldn't have anyone challenging their power and started trying to control all of South Ossetia and trying to displace ethnic georgians.

Leading to clashes with the Georgian government.

culiminating in an invasion

resulting in a Russian counter invasion.


I would like people to put yourselves in a South Ossetians shoes, say one of the ones not in an armed gang.

Your in your small town, maybe a tiny city. And a band of armed gunmen declare this region independant (no one asked you if you wanted to be independant) and then run the place into the ground for 15 years, preventing you from leaving.

Finally, sick of the squalid conditions you vote in an election to tell the "independance movement" to fark off, you want the government back.

They burn your house to the ground. The government steps in and then America charges in, bombs the crap out of the rest of the country and sits back as the "independance movement" burns your home, your neighbours homes, and kicks all the desenters out of their newly recognized "country" which by the way, the US is not going to annex.


Because if you don't think that would be ok, I don't see how you can think Russia was in the OK here.

 

[MHz]

Because if you don't think that would be ok, I don't see how you can think Russia was in the OK here.

Probably because I do more than watch FOXMSNBCCNNABC.

PROOF:Georgia started hostilities in South Ossetia

Have you read this?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis120.html

Or this?
(in part)
Another Side of the Coin

The major international media remain suspiciously silent about the illegitimacy of Georgia’s invasion, just a day before the start of the Olympic games in China! We weren’t told how Georgia’s artillery rained destruction on South Ossetia. It is this horrifying act that was the onset to the whole conflict.

Instead, the BBC shows us Mikheil Saakashvili asking the West for support and accusing Russia as the aggressor, while he is in fact responsible for the whole escalation of this conflict; it was under his command that Russian peacekeepers and two thousand South Ossetian citizens were shot while defending themselves. Based on the right of self-defense, the Russian military response in both South Ossetia and Georgia seems very natural. As PM Mr. Vladimir Putin announced earlier, Russia’s invasion is legal and can be justified.

The brutal invasion by Georgia, shooting of civilians and completely vanishing Tskhinvali (the capital of South Ossetia) from the map are barbaric acts and may be considered as genocide, that will probably have devastating consequences for peace in the Caucasus. These crimes are a violation of International Law and should be prosecuted in The Hague.

Nevertheless, thanks to all the speculations in the media regarding Russia, she remains the bête noire of the West, as she has always been before. Therefore, I do not believe, according to the media view, that by negotiations, South Ossetia will easily reach peace with Georgia. Nor do I believe that they can somehow bring humiliated Russia Justice. We get to see only one side of the coin.

Starting a war with the brutal invasion of Tskhinvali gains Mikheil Saakashvili publicity and moral support from the West. In the meantime, all major international media are being reticent about the Georgian’s atrocity against the country, which they claim to be their own. It is more than obvious, now, that there is no support at all for Russia in this matter - even if there ever was. Nevertheless, hypocrisy is particularly wicked for the South Ossetian and Russian people, killed by this war - in fact for all the victims of Sakaashvili’s War.

Andrei Fedorovski
http://www.unobserver.com/index.php?pagina=layout5.php&id=5057&blz=1

Shall I go on?

 

[dancing-loon]

Here is something with a touch of humor....
Bush to Putin, "Get out now!". Putin to Bush, "Nyet!"

When Vladimir Putin heard President Bush demand that Russian troops "leave Georgia territory immediately", he did what any sensible leader of a great nation would do; he yawned, scratched his belly and ambled over to the Kremlin frig to see if there were any left-overs from last night's imperial banquet with the French dignitaries. He may have even smiled wistfully to himself as he peered over the Chicken Kiev and the Siberian cutlets, thinking, "Nyet, George; South Ossetia's future is no longer negotiable".
:lol:

Now that the Russian army is in South Ossetia, Bush, Cheney, Rice have been getting madder and more frustrated by the day. "Get out now or face the consequences", they growl. But, Putin, with obvious disdain, just shrugs his shoulders and says, "Make me".

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9908
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Are they having fun getting into each other's hair just for the kick of it??

 

[Scott Free]

The hypocrisy of this situation is hardly believable.

 

[lone wolf]

Y'know ... with all the bluster and banter about Russia in Georgia - a break-away exerting its will over another part doing the same thing it did - how many times has Russia ordered Uncle Sam out of Afghanistan or Iran (places that were NEVER US states and can't even be considered in-house) or told them to stop propping up a belligerent Israel?

 

[Scott Free]

Y'know ... with all the bluster and banter about Russia in Georgia - a break-away exerting its will over another part doing the same thing it did - how many times has Russia ordered Uncle Sam out of Afghanistan or Iran (places that were NEVER US states and can't even be considered in-house) or told them to stop propping up a belligerent Israel?

One of the funniest things I've ever heard from the US media is that the problem in Iraq is too many "foreign" fighters!! I must have laughed for an hour at that. The delivery was so serious, completely deadpan, very funny stuff.

 

[Zzarchov]

Shall I go on?

Yes, start by looking at say the BBC, even al-jazeera and other international news sources, and reading back say over the last two years as stories started popping up on Georgia.

Do you think Georgia just flipped a switch and decided at random "You know what, tonight I'll invade"

Do you think Russia just "happened" to have an invasion forced sitting ready with well mapped out routes by sheer luck?

This conflict has been escalating to this point over a two year point and all parties knew ahead of time what was coming.

Seriously, you should do a little more research yourself on the conflict.

 

[MHz]

Yes, start by looking at say the BBC, even al-jazeera and other international news sources, and reading back say over the last two years as stories started popping up on Georgia.

LOL That link to utube was BBC on 06/08/08 you dolt, obviously you never watched it as it was in real big letters right at the beginning of the clip.

Do you think Georgia just flipped a switch and decided at random "You know what, tonight I'll invade"

Somebody thought it was the right time to start killing Russian troops, why would anybody think they would not respond to that? Oh, I forgot they had American and Israeli advisers.

Do you think Russia just "happened" to have an invasion forced sitting ready with well mapped out routes by sheer luck?

So the attack by Georgia was done knowing Russia had an 'invasion force' ready to go at a moments notice, how stupid of a move would that be?
They have been peace-keepers there for how many years, I'm quite sure they acquired some maps over that period of time. That they could find the enemy combatants might mean they have access to real-time data, just like the US would feed to those same culprits.

This conflict has been escalating to this point over a two year point and all parties knew ahead of time what was coming.

So the US was priming Georgia for that long, shame on them, join NATO so we can put you up against Russia.
The conflict was more than two years in the making. (again a previous link would have lead you to this link so you didn't look at that page either)
http://www.unobserver.com/index.php?pagina=layout5.php&id=5057&blz=1

Seriously, you should do a little more research yourself on the conflict.

Do you want 4 pages of links to articles, since you can't/won't follow a few already posted I'm quite sure it would be a waste of time, your attitude already shows you have bought the version the west wants you to believe. That is even against what the BBC video shows, where do you get your info, seriously what links lead you to have your current opinion, it could just be in your head for all anybody knows.

 

[darkbeaver]

Yes, start by looking at say the BBC, even al-jazeera and other international news sources, and reading back say over the last two years as stories started popping up on Georgia.

Do you think Georgia just flipped a switch and decided at random "You know what, tonight I'll invade"

Do you think Russia just "happened" to have an invasion forced sitting ready with well mapped out routes by sheer luck?

This conflict has been escalating to this point over a two year point and all parties knew ahead of time what was coming.

Seriously, you should do a little more research yourself on the conflict.

Georgia didn't flip any switchs that was done from scum headquarters in Tel-Aviv after a phonecall from London or Washingmachine DC.When are you going to get some vacation Zzarchov because you really need some. I'd let you stay at my place in the beautiful Southern Cobequids but it's occupied by friendly Americans this month. The rabbits there could help you understand polyticks and stuff if you'd only shut your pie hole long enough for them to get a chirp in. All you'd have to do is just sit there and let the freah air blow the farts out of your head, it would be good for you.:smile:

 

[dancing-loon]

It's not funny anymore!!!8O Something is going down in Ingushetia....

Kremlin critic shot in Ingushetia


The owner of an internet site critical of the Russian authorities in the volatile region of Ingushetia has been shot dead in police custody.
----
The Russian prosecutor's office said an investigation into the death had been launched, Russia media report. A post on Yevloyev's site says he was detained by police after landing at the airport of the main town, Nazran.

The website owner was taken to hospital but died from his injuries.
Yevloyev was a thorn in the side of Ingush President Murat Zyazikov, a former KGB general.

His website reported on alleged Russian security force brutality in Ingushetia, an impoverished province of some half a million people, mostly Muslims, which is now more turbulent than neighbouring Chechnya.

President Zyazikov had been on the same flight as Yevloyev.

Ingushetia borders Chechnya and has suffered from overflowing unrest.

In June 2008, the Human Rights Watch group accused Russian security forces there of carrying out widespread human rights abuses.
HRW said it had documented dozens of arbitrary detentions, disappearances, acts of torture and extra-judicial executions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7590719.stm
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This report comes from BBC, a big western media outlet. I don't think they would lie or embellish.
Does anyone remember a couple of years ago Anna Politskovaya was murdered because she criticized the handling of Chechnya.

According to The Moscow Times, investigative journalists are an endangered species in Russia and Anna Politskovaya was the twelfth high profile one to be assassinated.

It is still the old communist-style regime in some Hinterland parts of Mother Russia. The former KGB boys haven't changed with the system.

 

[dancing-loon]

Alright, back to the Caucasus!

A Unipolar World Dominated by the US is Unacceptable to Russia
Medvedev spells out five principles of Russian foreign policy

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has declared five principles of the Russian foreign policy following the recognition of independent South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

First of all, Russia recognizes the supremacy of international legal fundamentals, which define relations between civilized nations, Medvedev said.

“Secondly, the world must be multi-polar. Single polarity is unacceptable,” he said. “Russia cannot accept a world order, in which any decisions will be made by a sole nation, even such a serious one as the United States. Such a world order will be unstable and fraught with conflicts.”

Thirdly, Russia does not want a confrontation with any country, Medvedev said. “Russia does not want isolation. We will develop as much as possible friendly relations with Europe, the United States and other countries of the world,” he said.

The protection of life and dignity of Russian citizens “no matter where they live” is an absolute priority, Medvedev said. “We will also stand up for the interests of our business community abroad. Everyone must know that an aggression will be deterred,” he said.

The fifth principle is Russia’s interests in friendly regions, Medvedev said. “The same as other countries, Russia has areas of privileged interests. These areas house countries, to which we are linked with friendly ties,” he said, adding that he implied not only neighboring countries.

As for the future development of diplomatic relations, Medvedev said, that would depend not only on Russia but also “on our friends, partners and the international community at large.” “They have a choice,” the president remarked.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10020
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Take it or leave it! ;-)
He is right, no doubt about it. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander!
I guess this will calm everybody down.
He did the right thing by making Russia's position clear to everyone.

 

[lone wolf]

This will calm everyone down ... except for they who believe it is their destiny to control the world....

 

[dancing-loon]

This will calm everyone down ... except for they who believe it is their destiny to control the world....

I think you hit the famous nail on its head!;-)

I found an excellent pdf article about US policy for the Caucasus. Amust read to get an insight and understanding of what's being played right now. Here an excerpt to entice you to read the full file.

The Department of Defense had by 1994 singled out the South Caucasus as a strategically important region, not least given its potential to form an area of secular, independent and Western-friendly states between Russia and the Middle East.

And further...

The South Caucasus instead gained increasing awareness in the US in the mid-1990s mainly due to the emerging Caspian oil boom. With the discovery of significant oil reserves and the substantial presence of US oil companies in their exploration, the US came to lend significant support to the development of Caspian energy resources. This interest had three main drivers.
The first was the perceived role of energy production in strengthening the sovereignty of the regional states.
The second was support for US corporate interests; while
the third was the role of Caspian resources as an important source of non-Middle Eastern energy, and therefore in global energy security.

These factors explain the persistent and official US support for the concept of Multiple Pipelines, i.e. a policy to deny anyone regional power (implicitly Russia) a monopoly of the transportation of Caspian resources to international markets. In this policy, the main element has been the building of a Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline connecting Azerbaijan's Caspian coast to Turkey's Mediterranean coast via Georgia.

http://www.silkroadstudies.org/new/inside/publications/0506_Hmonitor.pdf
----------------------------------------------
As Linda McQuaig says, 'IT'S THE CRUDE, DUDE';-)
Of course, Russia has very similar interests.

P.S.
Besides the oil it is also strategically an important area in the fight against terrorism. (explained in the article)

 

[Lester]

Russia's starting to have almost as many wars on the go as the U.S. Russia doesn't like that Georgian pipeline, it prevents them having Western Europe by the short and curlies

 

[Scott Free]

Yes, start by looking at say the BBC, even al-jazeera and other international news sources, and reading back say over the last two years as stories started popping up on Georgia.

Do you think Georgia just flipped a switch and decided at random "You know what, tonight I'll invade"

Do you think Russia just "happened" to have an invasion forced sitting ready with well mapped out routes by sheer luck?

This conflict has been escalating to this point over a two year point and all parties knew ahead of time what was coming.

Seriously, you should do a little more research yourself on the conflict.

I think you've missed the point of hammering out a cease fire. Once in place your not supposed to cross into someone else's country and start slaughtering civilians. Once the deal is in place you can't bring up past grievances as justification. How far back are you going to go for excuses?

 

[china]

just a mistake - deleted .

 

[china]

US, Russia anchor military ships in Georgian ports

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](Agencies)
Updated: 2008-08-27 22:46[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] BATUMI - A US military ship docked at a southern Georgian port Wednesday, prompting Russia to send three naval ships to another Georgian port. The moves by both sides underscored an escalating standoff between Moscow and the West over this Caucasus nation devastated by war with Russia.

The US Coast Guard Cutter Dallas is seen docked at the Georgia's Black Sea port of Batumi August 27, 2008. [Agencies]​

The dockings came a day after Russian President Dmitry Medvedev recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states, prompting harsh criticism from Western nations.
Related readings:

Russia recognizes Georgia rebel regions

Georgia: Recognition of breakaway regions to isolate Russia

Russian MPs recognize Georgia rebel regions

Duma backs independence of Georgia's breakaway regions
The US Coast Guard cutter Dallas, carrying 34 tons of humanitarian aid, docked in the Black Sea port of Batumi, south of the zone of this month's fighting between Russia and Georgia. The arrival avoided Georgia's main cargo port of Poti, still controlled by Russian soldiers. The US Embassy in Georgia had earlier said the ship was headed to Poti, but then retracted the statement. Zaza Gogava, head of Georgia's joint forces command, said Poti could have been mined by Russian forces and still contained several sunken Georgian ships hit in the fighting.
Poti's port reportedly suffered heavy damage from the Russian military. In addition, Russian troops have established checkpoints on the northern approach to the city and a US ship docking there could be perceived as a direct challenge.
Meanwhile, Russia's missile cruiser, the Aurora, and two missile boats, anchored at the port of Sukhumi, the capital of Abkhazia, some 180 miles north of Batumi. The Russian navy says the ships will be involved in peacekeeping operations.
Although Western nations have called the Russian military presence in Poti a clear violation of an European Union-brokered cease-fire, a top Russian general has called using warships to deliver aid "devilish."
Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn warned that NATO has already exhausted the number of forces it can have in the Black Sea, according to international agreements, and warned Western nations against sending more ships.
[/FONT]

 

[dancing-loon]

just a mistake - deleted .

If you don't mind, China, I'll use the empty space!:lol:

EU suspends talks on Russia pact

European Union leaders have agreed to suspend talks on a new partnership agreement with Moscow until Russian troops have withdrawn from Georgia.

EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said it was clear it could not "continue as if nothing had happened", after an emergency summit in Brussels.

The EU also condemned Russia's move to recognise the independence of Georgia's regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Russia said the talks suspension had damaged the credibility of the bloc.
"It is more of a self-punishment for the European Union because this does not improve the EU's credibility as a negotiating partner," Russia's envoy to the EU, Vladimir Chizhov, said.

Earlier, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned the EU and the US that further support for Georgia would be a "historic" mistake.

Mr Lavrov also called for an embargo on arms supplies to Tbilisi until a different government was in place there.

The EU's foreign policy chief, Javier Solana, meanwhile said it was prepared to send hundreds of civilian monitors to Georgia to check if Russia was abiding by the EU-brokered ceasefire agreement.

Read further...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7592541.stm

also here:
EU's show of unity over Georgia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7592972.stm
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I cannot believe how stiff these EU leaders are! Perhaps for outer appearances they put on a tough show?
Where is good old diplomacy? Out of fashion these days? Threats and demands is all the West has come up with so far.
It is so obvious it's painful to see how Russia is villainized!
I'm sure Mr. Bush is happy to see how his European allies totally side with his politics