Israel...

dancing-loon
#1
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/wo...hp&oref=slogin

sorry, the thread ran ahead of me!!! Anyway, tooo late to fix now. Just read the link, please and comment.
 
dancing-loon
#2
[quote=dancing-loon;949178]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/wo...hp&oref=slogin


Israelís Tactics Thwart Attacks, With Trade-Off


Quote:

It is a classic military-political dilemma. The progress in stopping suicide bombers, the vast majority of whom cross into Israel from the West Bank, has brought enough quiet for Israel to resume peace talks with the Palestinian leadership there.
But the current calm is fragile, and to maintain it Israeli security officials say they must continue their nightly arrests and sometimes deadly raids in the heart of the West Bank ó tactics at odds with a peace effort that envisions a separate Palestinian state, an eventual Israeli withdrawal from much of the West Bank and, in the meantime, a gradual transfer of authority to the Palestinian police.

That is a totally phony tactic!!! I think the military is so used to doing these nightly raids, they don't want to stop!
 
MHz
#3
Oh, you must mean these terrorists.
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/200...an-terrorists/
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#4
So, what was the trade off?
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Oh, you must mean these terrorists.
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/200...an-terrorists/

What is the purported point of that hoax? Are we to believe there are no Palestinian Arab terrorists? It's been Jews pretending all along?
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#6
Maybe Palestinian terrorists are an Arab diversionary tactic to keep Israel on her toes and breaking for cover on promised turf so she doesn't cross international borders to find a fight?

Woof!

EDIT: Okay ... the "legitimate" terrorists....
Last edited by lone wolf; Jul 19th, 2008 at 09:03 PM..
 
MHz
#7
Yes, just why would Israel pull that type of hoax?
Lets deal with a much bigger fish, who did the Palestinians elect as their 'valid representatives in a vote by the people who had the right to vote' and where are those same elected representatives at this very moment?
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

What is the purported point of that hoax? Are we to believe there are no Palestinian Arab terrorists? It's been Jews pretending all along?

It's not about Jews is it? I believe it's about Israelis. Are we to believe there are no Israeli terrorists? I think the question is more correctly framed as which of the two main factions can afford the best and biggest and most sophisticated terrorist organ. It's all about the economics of such organizations really. I think if we examine the business fundementals we'll safely arrive at a sound conclusion about who has the better organ able to deliver a better product on time at the best price.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#9
The problem with the picture (aside from the jewelry) is terrorists do not wear uniforms. That sorta defeats the whole underground thing.

Woof!
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#10
So, an Israeli Jew dressed up as an Arab terrorist to prompt us to think about business fundamentals. Got it.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#11
The successful upwardly mobile terrorist wears expensive suits and nice shoes has a driver and works in a bank or somewhere in the speculative financial market, the ruffians at the street level are not even in the main part of the game. You can easily do a village with a stroke of the pen or a phone call, why get dirty that's for the underclass who can be persuaded to engage even tanks with the right motivation.
 
MHz
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

The successful upwardly mobile terrorist wears expensive suits and nice shoes has a driver and works in a bank or somewhere in the speculative financial market, the ruffians at the street level are not even in the main part of the game. You can easily do a village with a stroke of the pen or a phone call, why get dirty that's for the underclass who can be persuaded to engage even tanks with the right motivation.

Maybe they should switch who the 'bad guys' are on the show '24' then.

Rather than hate the puppies,bunnys,hamsters that are tied up with string shouldn't you hate the ones who are tying them up in the 1st place?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#13
[quote=dancing-loon;949185]
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/wo...hp&oref=slogin


Israelís Tactics Thwart Attacks, With Trade-Off


That is a totally phony tactic!!! I think the military is so used to doing these nightly raids, they don't want to stop!

That is just silly!

Did you miss the part that said suicide bombings had dropped from 59 in a year to ONE in a year?

Israel has the right to defend itself. Obviously, they are doing a good job.
 
MHz
#14
[quote=Colpy;949203]
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post


That is just silly!

Did you miss the part that said suicide bombings had dropped from 59 in a year to ONE in a year?

Israel has the right to defend itself. Obviously, they are doing a good job.

Ever notice how often in the last 60 years that the 'defending' was actually taking place outside their own borders. It is not as serene over there as the article would have the reader believe.

Casualties

The Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs for the occupied Palestinian territory (OCHoPT) was established in late 2000 by the United Nations as a response to the deteriorating humanitarian situation in the West Bank and Gaza caused by military incursions and closures[110] (See also: Second Intifada). The office monitors the conflict and presents figures relating to both internal-violence and direct conflict clashes.
Casualty figures for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from the OCHAoPt[111]
(numbers in brackets represent casualties under the age of 1 Year Deaths Injuries Palestinians Israelis Palestinians Israelis 2005 216 (52) 48 (6) 1260 (129) 484 (4) 2006 678 (127) 25 (2) 3194 (470) 377 (7) 2007 396 (43) 13 (0) 1843 (265) 322 (3) Total 1290 (222) 86 ( 6297 (864) 1183 (14) All numbers refer to casualties of direct conflict between Israelis and Palestinians including in IDF military operations, artillery shelling, search and arrest campaigns, Barrier demonstrations, targeted killings, settler violence etc. The figures do not include events indirectly related to the conflict such as casualties from unexploded ordnance, etc. or events when the circumstances remain unclear or are in dispute. The figures include all reported casualties of all ages and both genders.[111]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...ict#Casualties
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#15
[quote=Colpy;949203]
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post


That is just silly!

Did you miss the part that said suicide bombings had dropped from 59 in a year to ONE in a year?

Israel has the right to defend itself. Obviously, they are doing a good job.

Have you ever been driven to that point of despondency where putting on the dymamite vest to take as many of the bas*ards out with you as you can seems like a justifiable action? Perhaps suicide bombings have dropped because some of the candidates are getting breaths of hope....

Woof!
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#16
[quote=lone wolf;949211]
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post


Have you ever been driven to that point of despondency where putting on the dymamite vest to take as many of the bas*ards out with you as you can seems like a justifiable action? Perhaps suicide bombings have dropped because some of the candidates are getting breaths of hope....

Woof!

Wouldst that it were so.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#17
[quote=Just the Facts;949218]
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post


Wouldst that it were so.

Clarify? Are they seeing hope or being "strategically eliminated" ... or are they not being driven to despondency or out?

Woof!
 
dancing-loon
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Oh, you must mean these terrorists.
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/200...an-terrorists/

That is quite the link, MHz!!! I'm interested reading Irvin's book, "Churchill's War". As you may know I grew up during the war, and that period still occupies my memory.

As to Israelis posing as Palestinian terrorists... I have read about that some time ago. One has to be careful with such accusations... who knows the truth?
 
MHz
#19
I would agree that full faith on just one article is dangerous. Even if you had a dozen articles that were from both POV's the full truth of the matter could still be not totally known.

The old saying of 'who benefits' is not something to be forgotten in almost any story about acts of violence on the international stage. Conflict, in any area of the world, usually is a financial gain for just a very few people, as long as that is a factor those same few people will do everything they can to see that it keeps happening, even though the actual players may change.
 
dancing-loon
#20
[quote=Colpy;949203]
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post


That is just silly!

Did you miss the part that said suicide bombings had dropped from 59 in a year to ONE in a year?
Israel has the right to defend itself. Obviously, they are doing a good job.

But Colpy, Israel wants peace!!! So they should be happy the Palestinians are holding themselves back, because they also want peace.

It seems stupid to me that the Israelis say they have to keep up the nightly raids to make sure, the Palestinians keep quiet. They already have them on the ground and they said "uncle", but no, not enough... their faces have to be rubbed in the mud again and again!!

Let's do some role playing.... you are a Pal and I'm an Isra. You have made peace attempts numerous times with me, but I am afraid of you, I don't trust you, therefore I come every night with heavy armor, and I destroy your kids, your teenagers, your mother-law, your cat and dog, any chickens or livestock you may have. I also destroy your house and your neighbor's, too! I will keep this up indefinitely until I have devastated your habitat, perhaps even killed you and your family.
Do you now think you will love me and offer me your submission? Hell no, you wouldn't!!! So, why does Israel think the Palis will hold still until doomsday? Hate will increase, revenge feelings mount.

IF peace were really Israels aim, then they wouldn't continue these raids at night into the lives of the Palestinians. It is so typical of the Zionists to find the dumbest excuse to justify their crimes against humanity. Anyone to criticize them is right away labeled an anti-semitic, anti-Jew, anti-Israel. As I posted the other day about Jimmy carter... he gets dragged into the dirt by them.

Israel is very much like the US, both operate from an absolute power position. Instead of being kind and benevolent and lend a hand, they prefer to use their club and beat their opponents into submission. They cling to materialism as if their life depended on it.

(If I get thrown out for this post, so be it!!)
 
einmensch
#21
Interesting reading materials
-sites are new to me thanks

Decades ago I saw a Chinese film>> two cages attached with a sparrow in each one, one being well fed the other starved, the adjoining door is opened and the starved bird attacks the well fed and is killed.

Fata<>Hamas Israelis <> Palestinians---
If the USA were to give Palestinians $10,000,000,000 as they do to Israel, would there be peace?
birdfeeder wellfed<>starved
Used all the time
native tribes to our politians, media and you and I -done to us and we do to them
Not many Louis Riels around,
 
dancing-loon
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by einmenschView Post

Interesting reading materials
-sites are new to me thanks

Decades ago I saw a Chinese film>> two cages attached with a sparrow in each one, one being well fed the other starved, the adjoining door is opened and the starved bird attacks the well fed and is killed.

Fata<>Hamas Israelis <> Palestinians---
If the USA were to give Palestinians $10,000,000,000 as they do to Israel, would there be peace?
birdfeeder wellfed<>starved
Used all the time
native tribes to our politians, media and you and I -done to us and we do to them
Not many Louis Riels around,

I never heard of Louis Riel. You mean he fits into your equations because he opposed the then Federal Government?
Well, yes, our present Natives do stand up for their rights, but it is so limited. We all holler, but don't actively and openly do anything against the present Government. I for instance oppose us fighting in Afghanistan, but besides venting my frust I do nothing else.
Apathy!!! A widespread disease! Except in Italy!!! There they change their governments like their underpants.
 
einmensch
#23
Reply to Loon-please ignore I'm off topic Thank you

Louis Riel educated by Jesuits since age 14, asked to leave the seminary (too many questions not a good yesman) almost finishes law school, knew a great deal about international law, returns to Red River (Winnipeg), finds the Metis being thrown off their land, forms a legal government, since no one owned the land--he has a choice to remain an English colony, join the USA, join Canada--he could have been rich --instead Manitoba became a province, French language rights, Catholic Schools, a price was put on his head, the Church saved him by placing him in an Insane asylum, released became a teacher in the USA on a metis? Indian? reserve, married,2 children, was approached and returned with the Metis ( Gabriel Dumont) who had migrated from Red River to Batoch, Saskachewan,-Metis were given nothing and asked for the same treatment as Indians, tools, seed as the Buffalo were all gone--The government refused --a huge amount of money was spent (excuse) to complete the railway as soldiers had to be sent to stop the Metis uprising--at his trial ALL Louis needed to say was that he was insane--he refused and --stated RECORDED in court minutes in English a language that he was less familiar with, -"when a people have bee mistreated---"-he was excecuted in Regina November 1886. Gabriel Dumon his General escaped to the USA, was pardoned 5 years later, returned to Batoch and died in old age in his cabin--heart attack, stroke. Riel could have claimed insanity for 5 years---Quebec was outraged with Riel's fate---
I would rather be Wandering Spirit than Gen. Custer
If you get a chance go look at German prisoners of war in Canada Gravenhurst,
it is about 20 Km from where I live
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#24
[quote=lone wolf;949222]
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post


Clarify? Are they seeing hope or being "strategically eliminated" ... or are they not being driven to despondency or out?

Woof!

I meant that I wish they were holding back on account of seeing hope. That would indicate that there is hope.

I really don't think suicide bombing is borne of desperation as much as it is of religious zealotry and faith in martyrdom being a guaranteed ticket to paradise for oneself and 72 picks.
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#25
[quote=dancing-loon;949261]
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

But Colpy, Israel wants peace!!! So they should be happy the Palestinians are holding themselves back, because they also want peace.

Holding themselves back?

Use in a sentence : "I held myself back when I came upon an impregnable wall"
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#26
[quote=dancing-loon;949261]
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

It is so typical of the Zionists to find the dumbest excuse

Yeah, like trying to curb the firing of rockets and mortars at their people every day. What a lame excuse.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Maybe they should switch who the 'bad guys' are on the show '24' then.

Rather than hate the puppies,bunnys,hamsters that are tied up with string shouldn't you hate the ones who are tying them up in the 1st place?

Getting tied up by TV isn't nice either. I'v never seen "the show 24" is it fun to watch? You've misread my miswriteing.
 
MHz
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post

Apathy!!! A widespread disease!

Apathy can only come from someone who knows all the facts and then purposely chooses to ignore those facts either through in-action or through silence.

The very day the Gospel was taken to the Gentiles the special relationship God had with Israel came to a screeching halt. The whole purpose of having a "His people" was finished for the moment, that moment has not passed it is still very much in effect. Now that the God part is covered you still need to know the dynamics of why such a small actual number of people can and do have such an influential voice in matters over and above much larger numbers of people. Canada can be used as an example, a very small example. Taking only the immigration aspect into account Canada is more or less a collection of people from many Nations. The members of those Nations did not disperse throughout Canada when they arrived, they tended to settle in groups, more or less. Since time is a factor that cannot be ignored those that arrived first and in the greatest numbers more or less set the tone for the way things would be run, usually based on the very model of the way things were run back in their respective nations.
Today there has been a small integration so those various different Nationalities operate with an increased co-operation, but only to a certain extent. If a new immigrant hated a certain Nation back in the 'old country' that very same attitude is with them when they settle in Canada. Time is the only way that attitude changes, and quite frankly that may take several generations before it becomes apparent, if that change ever does occur. If the older traditions are taught endlessly, things stay the same, endlessly.

Now getting specifically to non-Christian believing Jews, how do they actually operate. They never integrate into their host Nation, there is a very intentional effort to remain apart yet gain as much power and influence as possible.

Since the first article is short i will post it, the 2nd is much longer but it is also much more informative.
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/ar...no2/index.html

http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/ar...itnote3-2.html
Editor's Note

The Question of Jewish Influence


One special, unique aspect of the relation of the West with other civilizations remains to be noted. Through all the intellectual and technical development that has been barely sketched here, through all the turmoil of politics, one alien group lived physically in the midst of the Western peoples but almost aloof from their life, almost untouched by the strains and intellectual problems that beset the West: the Western Jews.
—Lawrence Brown, The Might of the West
The lead article in this issue, “Understanding Jewish Influence” by Dr. Kevin MacDonald, professor of psychology at California State University-Long Beach, is the first of a three-part series that analyzes Jewish political, cultural, social, and economic influence and the factors that contribute to the extraordinary Jewish impact on American life. As with Professor MacDonald’s other published work, particularly his trilogy on Judaism as an evolutionary group-based survival strategy, the treatment of the subject is meticulously thorough and systematic in its careful study of what is by any honest assessment the most untouchable of current taboos.
The first installment outlines the core traits of Jewish activism and why this combination of group-based characteristics is such a formidable ethnocentric force. Subsequent articles will assess the role of Zionism and neo-conservatism—both subjects of immense topicality in view of their role in forming America’s current policy throughout the Middle East—as political movements that consolidate Jewish influence over elite institutions in Western societies.
To thoroughly understand the dynamic of competition and interaction among societal elites one must accurately diagnose the causal relationships that often generate friction and group-based conflict. Despite the shallow rhetoric of his critics—conservatives who claim to be confused about the role of groups in evolutionary psychology—Professor MacDonald advances a compelling assessment of Jewish influence that updates and expands upon his other published work on this provocative area of scholarly research.


http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/ar...rstanding.html


While it might appear that I am anti-jewish that isn't the case, if I am anti anything it is how does 1% have a more influential voice than 10%. That would cover bankers much more than any people of any certain ethnic origin
Last edited by MHz; May 3rd, 2008 at 09:47 PM..
 
Colpy
Conservative
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Apathy can only come from someone who knows all the facts and then purposely chooses to ignore those facts either through in-action or through silence.
The very day the Gospel was taken to the Gentiles the special relationship God had with Israel came to a screeching halt. The whole purpose of having a "His people" was finished for the moment, that moment has not passed it is still very much in effect. Now that the God part is covered you still need to know the dynamics of why such a small actual number of people can and do have such an influential voice in matters over and above much larger numbers of people. Canada can be used as an example, a very small example. Taking only the immigration aspect into account Canada is more or less a collection of people from many Nations. The members of those Nations did not disperse throughout Canada when they arrived, they tended to settle in groups, more or less. Since time is a factor that cannot be ignored those that arrived first and in the greatest numbers more or less set the tone for the way things would be run, usually based on the very model of the way things were run back in their respective nations.
Today there has been a small integration so those various different Nationalities operate with an increased co-operation, but only to a certain extent. If a new immigrant hated a certain Nation back in the 'old country' that very same attitude is with them when they settle in Canada. Time is the only way...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Exactly.

I do not argue that Jewish influence far outpaces their numbers........only 13 million Jews on earth.

and yes, in Europe before the Holocaust, Jews were by far disproportionally represented in the intellectual class, professors, teachers doctors, and as entrepreneurs.

It is, as your source says , a survival strategy among the most persecuted people on the face of the earth........

So what?

Are we envious of their ability to focus on education? On achievement?

What is the point?

if jews have influence, they EARNED it!
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Exactly.

I do not argue that Jewish influence far outpaces their numbers........only 13 million Jews on earth.

and yes, in Europe before the Holocaust, Jews were by far disproportionally represented in the intellectual class, professors, teachers doctors, and as entrepreneurs.

It is, as your source says , a survival strategy among the most persecuted people on the face of the earth........

So what?

Are we envious of their ability to focus on education? On achievement?

What is the point?

if jews have influence, they EARNED it!

Earned it? Maybe so. Lord it over they who they deem as beneath them? Too often. Perhaps a bit of humility might soften the harsh edges that invite persecution. Arrogance - in anyone - invites contempt.

Woof!
 

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