Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,680 
April 8th, 2008, 10:18 PM
Palestinians are far from "trying to survive" , in the scheme of the world they do indeed live comfortabley.
I think a tall glass of perspective to the "suffering" of palestinians is needed.
The price of chocolate bars and cigarettes tripling due to sanctions from rocketfire is not suffering.
This being your life on a good day is suffering. The hyperbole of how bad Palestine is, does nothing but hurt there cause.
Palestinians are far from "trying to survive" , in the scheme of the world they do indeed live comfortabley.
I think a tall glass of perspective to the "suffering" of palestinians is needed.
The price of chocolate bars and cigarettes tripling due to sanctions from rocketfire is not suffering.
This being your life on a good day is suffering. The hyperbole of how bad Palestine is, does nothing but hurt there cause.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,416
April 8th, 2008, 10:53 PM
A,
About the author:
A,
Quote:
This isn't what you are looking for, but it is written by a Palestinian. Its a critical analysis of the effects of Zionism on Palestinian life during the 1890s-1930's. It describes Palestinians (Jew/Christian/Muslim/Secular...) coexisting peacefully and cooperating.
1. I often read articles/letters/remarks by an Israeli published in the international press/Israeli press favourable to the Palestinian cause. I have not yet seen something similiar published in the countries of the rest of the middle east by a Palestinian - I may have missed it, but the abscence of any article/letter acknowledging the Israeli's right to exist except in dhimmitude is rather striking.
Quote:
How things have changed!
Ishaq al-Shami and
the Predicament of
the Arab Jew
in Palestine
Salim Tamari
In his retrospective personal memoirs of the
1930s and 40s, Ta’ir 3ala Sindiyanah (Bird
on an Oak Tree), the Lebanese historian
Kamal Salibi discusses two groups of Jewish
companions he encountered during his
student days during the French Mandate in
Lebanon.1 The first group consisted primarily
of Arabic-speaking Jews from Syria and
Iraq, several of whom took a prominent
place in Arab nationalist, and anti-imperialist
intellectual circles in the 1930s and 40s; the
second he identifies as Yiddish-speaking
Jews from Palestine, who exhibited marked
Zionist sympathies.2 While the first group
blended smoothly with Arab social circles
(many of them being middle class and
secular in outlook), the second - recollects
Salibi - kept to their own, hardly spoke any
Arabic, and viewed their host environment
with suspicion.3 .....
[PHOTO}
When all were Ottomans Cornerstone ceremony for the Jerusalem Railway, 1890. Front row: The Ottoman
Mutasarrif of Jerusalem Rashid Beyk, with Mayor Salim Husseini and the members of the Jerusalem Council and
other city notables including Yusif Bey Navon - the grandfather of Elie Elyasher - and other members of the Elyachar
family. Source: Courtesy of Julia Elyachar.
http://www.jerusalemquarterly.org/pdfs/predicament.pdf
the Predicament of
the Arab Jew
in Palestine
Salim Tamari
In his retrospective personal memoirs of the
1930s and 40s, Ta’ir 3ala Sindiyanah (Bird
on an Oak Tree), the Lebanese historian
Kamal Salibi discusses two groups of Jewish
companions he encountered during his
student days during the French Mandate in
Lebanon.1 The first group consisted primarily
of Arabic-speaking Jews from Syria and
Iraq, several of whom took a prominent
place in Arab nationalist, and anti-imperialist
intellectual circles in the 1930s and 40s; the
second he identifies as Yiddish-speaking
Jews from Palestine, who exhibited marked
Zionist sympathies.2 While the first group
blended smoothly with Arab social circles
(many of them being middle class and
secular in outlook), the second - recollects
Salibi - kept to their own, hardly spoke any
Arabic, and viewed their host environment
with suspicion.3 .....
[PHOTO}
When all were Ottomans Cornerstone ceremony for the Jerusalem Railway, 1890. Front row: The Ottoman
Mutasarrif of Jerusalem Rashid Beyk, with Mayor Salim Husseini and the members of the Jerusalem Council and
other city notables including Yusif Bey Navon - the grandfather of Elie Elyasher - and other members of the Elyachar
family. Source: Courtesy of Julia Elyachar.
http://www.jerusalemquarterly.org/pdfs/predicament.pdf
About the author:
Quote:
Salim Tamari
Salim Tamari is Professor of Sociology at Bir Zeit University in Palestine and Visiting Professor at the University of California-Berkeley. A noted Palestinian scholar and leading sociologist, Tamari has produced numerous studies dealing with sociology, development, urban studies, and other issues relating to Palestinian society in the occupied territories. In September 1994, he was appointed director of the Institute for Jerusalem Studies, a branch of the Beirut-based Institute for Palestine Studies that publishes Jerusalem Quarterly File . He has also served on the refugee committee in the multilateral peace talks that began in the wake of the 1991 Madrid peace conference. He is the author of several publications, including The Mountain against the Sea: Studies in Palestinian Urban Culture (al Jabal didd al Bahar, 2005).
http://mershoncenter.osu.edu/events/...conference.htm
Salim Tamari is Professor of Sociology at Bir Zeit University in Palestine and Visiting Professor at the University of California-Berkeley. A noted Palestinian scholar and leading sociologist, Tamari has produced numerous studies dealing with sociology, development, urban studies, and other issues relating to Palestinian society in the occupied territories. In September 1994, he was appointed director of the Institute for Jerusalem Studies, a branch of the Beirut-based Institute for Palestine Studies that publishes Jerusalem Quarterly File . He has also served on the refugee committee in the multilateral peace talks that began in the wake of the 1991 Madrid peace conference. He is the author of several publications, including The Mountain against the Sea: Studies in Palestinian Urban Culture (al Jabal didd al Bahar, 2005).
http://mershoncenter.osu.edu/events/...conference.htm
Super Genius
Posts: 1,416
April 8th, 2008, 11:41 PM
Even back in 2002, Gaza was already on par with Nigeria and Chad:
http://www.globalhealthfacts.org/topic.jsp?i=86
Since 2002, the situation has not improved:
Los Angeles Times
UN Source:
I think Gaza is more like the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising:
Quoting Zzarchov
Would you care to back up your perceptions with actual facts? I researched Gaza child and infant malnutrition rates.
Palestinians are far from "trying to survive" , in the scheme of the world they do indeed live comfortabley.
I think a tall glass of perspective to the "suffering" of palestinians is needed.
The price of chocolate bars and cigarettes tripling due to sanctions from rocketfire is not suffering.
This being your life on a good day is suffering. The hyperbole of how bad Palestine is, does nothing but hurt there cause.
I think a tall glass of perspective to the "suffering" of palestinians is needed.
The price of chocolate bars and cigarettes tripling due to sanctions from rocketfire is not suffering.
This being your life on a good day is suffering. The hyperbole of how bad Palestine is, does nothing but hurt there cause.
Even back in 2002, Gaza was already on par with Nigeria and Chad:
Quote:
That puts them in the bottom 10 as far as malnutrition is concerned. Not only on par with Nigeria and Chad, but already far worse than Egypt:
CARE International, report, 5 August 2002
...Preliminary results of the first survey, a Nutritional Assessment, indicate an increase in the number of malnourished children with 22.5 percent of children under 5 suffering from acute (9.3 percent) or chronic (13.2 percent) malnutrition. The preliminary rates are particularly high in Gaza with the survey showing 13.2 percent of children suffering from acute malnutrition, putting them on par with children in countries such as Nigeria and Chad.
Other early findings show that the rate of anemia in Palestinian children under 5 has reached 19.7 percent (20.9 percent in the West Bank and 18.9 percent in Gaza), while anemia rates of non-pregnant Palestinian women of childbearing age are 10.8 percent (9.5 percent in the West Bank and 12 percent in Gaza).
A market survey reveals shortages of high protein foods such as fish, chicken, and dairy products amongst wholesalers and retailers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Fifty-two percent of wholesalers and 48.3 percent of retailers reported a shortage of infant formula. Survey respondents indicated that shortages in Gaza were primarily due to border closures that seal the Gaza Strip off from Egypt, Israel and the West Bank. In the West Bank, survey respondents said food shortages were caused by a combination of road closures, checkpoints, curfews and military conflict...
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article616.shtml
...Preliminary results of the first survey, a Nutritional Assessment, indicate an increase in the number of malnourished children with 22.5 percent of children under 5 suffering from acute (9.3 percent) or chronic (13.2 percent) malnutrition. The preliminary rates are particularly high in Gaza with the survey showing 13.2 percent of children suffering from acute malnutrition, putting them on par with children in countries such as Nigeria and Chad.
Other early findings show that the rate of anemia in Palestinian children under 5 has reached 19.7 percent (20.9 percent in the West Bank and 18.9 percent in Gaza), while anemia rates of non-pregnant Palestinian women of childbearing age are 10.8 percent (9.5 percent in the West Bank and 12 percent in Gaza).
A market survey reveals shortages of high protein foods such as fish, chicken, and dairy products amongst wholesalers and retailers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Fifty-two percent of wholesalers and 48.3 percent of retailers reported a shortage of infant formula. Survey respondents indicated that shortages in Gaza were primarily due to border closures that seal the Gaza Strip off from Egypt, Israel and the West Bank. In the West Bank, survey respondents said food shortages were caused by a combination of road closures, checkpoints, curfews and military conflict...
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article616.shtml
http://www.globalhealthfacts.org/topic.jsp?i=86
Since 2002, the situation has not improved:
Los Angeles Times
Quote:
Z, since you believe Gazans are so well off, perhaps you could try living on one small bowl of rice and lentils a day for just two weeks and tell us about your experience. If such a diet isn't suffering, then what is it? September 22, 2007
The War on Gaza’s Children
by Saree Makdisi
An entire generation of Palestinians in Gaza is growing up stunted: physically and nutritionally stunted because they are not getting enough to eat; emotionally stunted because of the pressures of living in a virtual prison and facing the constant threat of destruction and displacement; intellectually and academically stunted because they cannot concentrate — or, even if they can, because they are trying to study and learn in circumstances that no child should have to endure.
Even before Israel this week declared Gaza “hostile territory” — apparently in preparation for cutting off the last remaining supplies of fuel and electricity to 1.5 million men, women and children — the situation was dire.
As a result of Israel’s blockade on most imports and exports and other policies designed to punish the populace, about 70% of Gaza’s workforce is now unemployed or without pay, according to the United Nations, and about 80% of its residents live in grinding poverty. About 1.2 million of them are now dependent for their day-to-day survival on food handouts from U.N. or international agencies, without which, as the World Food Program’s Kirstie Campbell put it, “they are liable to starve.”
An increasing number of Palestinian families in Gaza are unable to offer their children more than one meager meal a day, often little more than rice and boiled lentils. Fresh fruit and vegetables are beyond the reach of many families. Meat and chicken are impossibly expensive. Gaza faces the rich waters of the Mediterranean, but fish is unavailable in its markets because the Israeli navy has curtailed the movements of Gaza’s fishermen...
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/22/4015/
The War on Gaza’s Children
by Saree Makdisi
An entire generation of Palestinians in Gaza is growing up stunted: physically and nutritionally stunted because they are not getting enough to eat; emotionally stunted because of the pressures of living in a virtual prison and facing the constant threat of destruction and displacement; intellectually and academically stunted because they cannot concentrate — or, even if they can, because they are trying to study and learn in circumstances that no child should have to endure.
Even before Israel this week declared Gaza “hostile territory” — apparently in preparation for cutting off the last remaining supplies of fuel and electricity to 1.5 million men, women and children — the situation was dire.
As a result of Israel’s blockade on most imports and exports and other policies designed to punish the populace, about 70% of Gaza’s workforce is now unemployed or without pay, according to the United Nations, and about 80% of its residents live in grinding poverty. About 1.2 million of them are now dependent for their day-to-day survival on food handouts from U.N. or international agencies, without which, as the World Food Program’s Kirstie Campbell put it, “they are liable to starve.”
An increasing number of Palestinian families in Gaza are unable to offer their children more than one meager meal a day, often little more than rice and boiled lentils. Fresh fruit and vegetables are beyond the reach of many families. Meat and chicken are impossibly expensive. Gaza faces the rich waters of the Mediterranean, but fish is unavailable in its markets because the Israeli navy has curtailed the movements of Gaza’s fishermen...
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/22/4015/
UN Source:
Quote:
which backs up this claim: UN officials warn of malnutrition threat as Gaza border crossings continue
29 January 2008 – Every border crossing into the Gaza Strip from Israel remains closed, except for the import of fuel supplies, United Nations officials said today, warning that Palestinians face the rising threat of malnutrition if the current lockdown continues.
Only 32 truckloads of goods have entered Gaza since 18 January, when the comprehensive Israeli closures were imposed, the Office of the UN Special Coordinator (UNSCO) reported. This compares to a daily average of 250 truckloads before June last year.
UNSCO said a backlog of 224 trucks, belonging to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), the World Health Organization (WHO) and the World Food Programme (WFP), has now accumulated.
WFP distribution programmes in some areas of Gaza – home to an estimated 1.4 million Palestinians – have already run out of sugar and salt, and UNSCO said the threat of malnutrition is increasing...
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/59c...c!OpenDocument
29 January 2008 – Every border crossing into the Gaza Strip from Israel remains closed, except for the import of fuel supplies, United Nations officials said today, warning that Palestinians face the rising threat of malnutrition if the current lockdown continues.
Only 32 truckloads of goods have entered Gaza since 18 January, when the comprehensive Israeli closures were imposed, the Office of the UN Special Coordinator (UNSCO) reported. This compares to a daily average of 250 truckloads before June last year.
UNSCO said a backlog of 224 trucks, belonging to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), the World Health Organization (WHO) and the World Food Programme (WFP), has now accumulated.
WFP distribution programmes in some areas of Gaza – home to an estimated 1.4 million Palestinians – have already run out of sugar and salt, and UNSCO said the threat of malnutrition is increasing...
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/59c...c!OpenDocument
Quote:
Which supports this comparison:
Hamas-run health ministry says 71 percent of children suffer malnutrition
http://www.imemc.org/article/53980
http://www.imemc.org/article/53980
Quote:
I disagree with the above. Israelis haven't descended to mass extermination... yet. But each day gets worse and worse. Maybe its just a matter of time.
Gaza: The Auschwitz of our Time
Largest detention camp in the World
by Khalid Amayreh
Global Research, August 11, 2007
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=6509
Largest detention camp in the World
by Khalid Amayreh
Global Research, August 11, 2007
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=6509
I think Gaza is more like the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising:
Quote:
Warsaw Ghetto Uprising
the first civilian, urban uprising in German-occupied Europe, the heroic revolt begun by the Jewish Fighting Organization was joined by the remaining ghetto population. It was the longest lasting Jewish uprising lasting from April 19 through May 16, 1943. Of negligible military value, the revolt became a symbol of the indomitableness of the human spirit.
In response to the July 1942 deportations from the Warsaw ghetto and to reports of mass murder in Lithuania the Zydowska Organizacja Bojowa (Jewish Fighting Organization, henceforth ZOB) was founded. When the first wave of deportations ended in September 300,000 Jews had been removed leaving a ghetto population of around 60,000, most of them young people. The survivors blamed themselves for not having offered armed resistance...
http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/da...lopedia&ke=118
the first civilian, urban uprising in German-occupied Europe, the heroic revolt begun by the Jewish Fighting Organization was joined by the remaining ghetto population. It was the longest lasting Jewish uprising lasting from April 19 through May 16, 1943. Of negligible military value, the revolt became a symbol of the indomitableness of the human spirit.
In response to the July 1942 deportations from the Warsaw ghetto and to reports of mass murder in Lithuania the Zydowska Organizacja Bojowa (Jewish Fighting Organization, henceforth ZOB) was founded. When the first wave of deportations ended in September 300,000 Jews had been removed leaving a ghetto population of around 60,000, most of them young people. The survivors blamed themselves for not having offered armed resistance...
http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/da...lopedia&ke=118
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,680
April 9th, 2008, 08:46 AM
1.) Hamas is not a credible source. Neither is global research (despite the name)
2.) Nigeria is a developing world, not that bad off in the grande scheme of things as its raking in huge sums of oil money.
3.) Gaza is not like the warsaw uprising.
If it were, then there would be no Gaza at this point. The warsaw uprising was against slaughter, and it ended the same way.
Tell me, how many people are left in Gaza after all these years? Is it more than trace amounts?
You know why? Because no matter how hard you try, you cannot compare Israel to Nazi's, nor to South Africa and be anything but a joke.
Oh you can find surface things "Nazi germany had a military, Aparatheid had a military..and SO DOES ISRAEL! DUN DUN DUN!!!" , but nothing of substance that holds up to scrutiny.
Gaza isn't some oppressed Ghetto, its people run by violent thugs who can't run themselves, Israel doesn't want to run and has 100% withdrawn from and whom Egypt doesn't want.
And they can't run themselves, or they wouldn't need Israel providing handouts. And they wouldn't suffer when they stopped.
What do you think it will do if it ever becomes independant and Israel doesn't give them handouts and their neighbours still put up blockades due to their actions?
Its not a viable state. If Its returned to Egypt, I can almost guarantee that Egypt will depopulate the area and resettle them elsewhere (and as its Egyptian territory and Egyptian citizens it can do that)
1.) Hamas is not a credible source. Neither is global research (despite the name)
2.) Nigeria is a developing world, not that bad off in the grande scheme of things as its raking in huge sums of oil money.
3.) Gaza is not like the warsaw uprising.
If it were, then there would be no Gaza at this point. The warsaw uprising was against slaughter, and it ended the same way.
Tell me, how many people are left in Gaza after all these years? Is it more than trace amounts?
You know why? Because no matter how hard you try, you cannot compare Israel to Nazi's, nor to South Africa and be anything but a joke.
Oh you can find surface things "Nazi germany had a military, Aparatheid had a military..and SO DOES ISRAEL! DUN DUN DUN!!!" , but nothing of substance that holds up to scrutiny.
Gaza isn't some oppressed Ghetto, its people run by violent thugs who can't run themselves, Israel doesn't want to run and has 100% withdrawn from and whom Egypt doesn't want.
And they can't run themselves, or they wouldn't need Israel providing handouts. And they wouldn't suffer when they stopped.
What do you think it will do if it ever becomes independant and Israel doesn't give them handouts and their neighbours still put up blockades due to their actions?
Its not a viable state. If Its returned to Egypt, I can almost guarantee that Egypt will depopulate the area and resettle them elsewhere (and as its Egyptian territory and Egyptian citizens it can do that)
Super Genius
Posts: 1,322
April 9th, 2008, 11:07 AM
You use source that has told us, that saddam had connection with alqueada, that saddam hussein had wmd, so get real.
The reason why, is because your brain doesnt allow you to comprehend, when we compare them to nazi, we know they are not identical like the nazi, and it is normal, israel are an upgraded of the nazi fascist party, they won't do the same mistake as them.
Of course, Egypt doesnt want them, israel will destroyed Egypte , that is how israel works, period.
And yes you can compare israel to the nazi, Albert Einstein( A jewish américan) Hannah arendt ( A survivor of the holocaust) did.
Quoting Zzarchov
who the hell are you to say that global reasearch isnt credible?
1.) Hamas is not a credible source. Neither is global research (despite the name)
You use source that has told us, that saddam had connection with alqueada, that saddam hussein had wmd, so get real.
Quoting Zzarchov
2.) Nigeria is a developing world, not that bad off in the grande scheme of things as its raking in huge sums of oil money.
3.) Gaza is not like the warsaw uprising.
If it were, then there would be no Gaza at this point. The warsaw uprising was against slaughter, and it ended the same way.
Tell me, how many people are left in Gaza after all these years? Is it more than trace amounts?
You know why? Because no matter how hard you try, you cannot compare Israel to Nazi's, nor to South Africa and be anything but a joke.
Oh you can find surface things "Nazi germany had a military, Aparatheid had a military..and SO DOES ISRAEL! DUN DUN DUN!!!" , but nothing of substance that holds up to scrutiny.
Gaza isn't some oppressed Ghetto, its people run by violent thugs who can't run themselves, Israel doesn't want to run and has 100% withdrawn from and whom Egypt doesn't want.
And they can't run themselves, or they wouldn't need Israel providing handouts. And they wouldn't suffer when they stopped.
What do you think it will do if it ever becomes independant and Israel doesn't give them handouts and their neighbours still put up blockades due to their actions?
Its not a viable state. If Its returned to Egypt, I can almost guarantee that Egypt will depopulate the area and resettle them elsewhere (and as its Egyptian territory and Egyptian citizens it can do that)
3.) Gaza is not like the warsaw uprising.
If it were, then there would be no Gaza at this point. The warsaw uprising was against slaughter, and it ended the same way.
Tell me, how many people are left in Gaza after all these years? Is it more than trace amounts?
You know why? Because no matter how hard you try, you cannot compare Israel to Nazi's, nor to South Africa and be anything but a joke.
Oh you can find surface things "Nazi germany had a military, Aparatheid had a military..and SO DOES ISRAEL! DUN DUN DUN!!!" , but nothing of substance that holds up to scrutiny.
Gaza isn't some oppressed Ghetto, its people run by violent thugs who can't run themselves, Israel doesn't want to run and has 100% withdrawn from and whom Egypt doesn't want.
And they can't run themselves, or they wouldn't need Israel providing handouts. And they wouldn't suffer when they stopped.
What do you think it will do if it ever becomes independant and Israel doesn't give them handouts and their neighbours still put up blockades due to their actions?
Its not a viable state. If Its returned to Egypt, I can almost guarantee that Egypt will depopulate the area and resettle them elsewhere (and as its Egyptian territory and Egyptian citizens it can do that)
The reason why, is because your brain doesnt allow you to comprehend, when we compare them to nazi, we know they are not identical like the nazi, and it is normal, israel are an upgraded of the nazi fascist party, they won't do the same mistake as them.
Of course, Egypt doesnt want them, israel will destroyed Egypte , that is how israel works, period.
And yes you can compare israel to the nazi, Albert Einstein( A jewish américan) Hannah arendt ( A survivor of the holocaust) did.
Quote:
http://zionofascism.wordpress.com/19...s-terrorstate/ Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the Freedom Party (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,422
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
April 9th, 2008, 01:52 PM
Isreal is a nation of thieves and extortionists , totally dependent on funds it blackmails and steals from others, it's done nothing for humanity except lay the guilt trip of the millenium on the world. The holocaust is a tired old story perenially used to excuse Isreali fascist brutality, they have no shame.
Isreal is a nation of thieves and extortionists , totally dependent on funds it blackmails and steals from others, it's done nothing for humanity except lay the guilt trip of the millenium on the world. The holocaust is a tired old story perenially used to excuse Isreali fascist brutality, they have no shame.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,680
April 9th, 2008, 03:50 PM
1.) Hello Logic7, Im glad to see they let you out
2.) I haven't used Global Research actually, and no, it isn't credible
3.) This isn't physics so Einstein isn't really adding anything to your cause. I also can't quote einstein when discussing fashion, as he didn't wear socks.
4.) How can you call a holocaust survivor some kind of authority, when you have previously denied the holocaust?
1.) Hello Logic7, Im glad to see they let you out
2.) I haven't used Global Research actually, and no, it isn't credible
3.) This isn't physics so Einstein isn't really adding anything to your cause. I also can't quote einstein when discussing fashion, as he didn't wear socks.
4.) How can you call a holocaust survivor some kind of authority, when you have previously denied the holocaust?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,416
April 9th, 2008, 06:23 PM
Z,
The Hamas and Global Research numbers match numbers I referenced in reports from the UN and CARE. That makes their numbers just as reliable.
Those links again:
The UN
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/59c...c!OpenDocument
CARE
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/22/4015/
I also found the original 2002 CARE report about Palestinian malnutrition referred to above:
http://www.care.org/newsroom/article...2003_study.pdf
Since 2002, conditions in GAZA have detoriated markedly. Here is a recent report submitted to the UN by the NGOs tasked with monitoring human rights in Gaza and the West Bank:
Source: Report Submitted to the UN
A humanitarian crisis (or "humanitarian disaster") is an event or series of events which represents a critical threat to the health, safety, security or wellbeing of a community or other large group of people, usually over a wide area.
Z, obviously you are in denial. Even the Jerusalem Post admits 10% of Gaza children have been so malnourished their growth has been permanently stunted.
Z,
The Hamas and Global Research numbers match numbers I referenced in reports from the UN and CARE. That makes their numbers just as reliable.
Those links again:
The UN
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/59c...c!OpenDocument
CARE
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/22/4015/
I also found the original 2002 CARE report about Palestinian malnutrition referred to above:
http://www.care.org/newsroom/article...2003_study.pdf
Since 2002, conditions in GAZA have detoriated markedly. Here is a recent report submitted to the UN by the NGOs tasked with monitoring human rights in Gaza and the West Bank:
Source: Report Submitted to the UN
Quote:
This recent news release by Oxfam also describes Gaza as an "Escalating Humanitarian Crisis": 25 February 2008
...As human rights organisations committed to the promotion and protection of international human rights and humanitarian law, the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) and the International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) remain gravely concerned about escalating Israeli violations of international law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). These include violations of the rights to life, the right to freedom of movement, including freedom of movement in order to work, the right to access medical treatment, and the right to adequate food. These human rights violations are seriously affecting every aspect of civilian life in the OPT...
...Ard El Insan is a Palestinian NGO that treats children under five years of age suffering from malnutrition. Last year Ard El Insan treated more than 8,400 malnourished children at its centre in Gaza city, plus another 8,000 children at its centre in the southern Gaza Strip. The Medical Director, Dr Adnan Al-Wahaidi, describes the consequences of the siege and closure of the Gaza Strip as "Very severe for babies and young children," especially with regard to child stunting due to prolonged exposure to malnutrition. According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, 10.2% of children in the Gaza Strip are now suffering stunted growth due to chronic malnutrition. However, the World Food Program (WFP) is currently unable to provide 84,000 of its poorest beneficiaries with their full aid rations due to the continued siege and closure of Gaza. Dr Al-Wahaidi describes the current food table in the Gaza Strip as "Severely deficient because of the siege and closure."...
...Israel has not only allowed a humanitarian crisis to emerge in the Gaza Strip: it has manufactured a chronic humanitarian crisis in Gaza in defiance of international law, as a tool of collective punishment against the citizens of Gaza. PCHR and FIDH have repeatedly called on the International Community to honour their legal and moral obligations as High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention, in order to ensure Israel's respect for the Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). In addition, PCHR and FIDH have reiterated that failure to act by the international community has encouraged Israel to act as if it is above the law, and encourages Israel to violate international human rights and humanitarian law...
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/f45...6!OpenDocument
...As human rights organisations committed to the promotion and protection of international human rights and humanitarian law, the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) and the International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) remain gravely concerned about escalating Israeli violations of international law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). These include violations of the rights to life, the right to freedom of movement, including freedom of movement in order to work, the right to access medical treatment, and the right to adequate food. These human rights violations are seriously affecting every aspect of civilian life in the OPT...
...Ard El Insan is a Palestinian NGO that treats children under five years of age suffering from malnutrition. Last year Ard El Insan treated more than 8,400 malnourished children at its centre in Gaza city, plus another 8,000 children at its centre in the southern Gaza Strip. The Medical Director, Dr Adnan Al-Wahaidi, describes the consequences of the siege and closure of the Gaza Strip as "Very severe for babies and young children," especially with regard to child stunting due to prolonged exposure to malnutrition. According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, 10.2% of children in the Gaza Strip are now suffering stunted growth due to chronic malnutrition. However, the World Food Program (WFP) is currently unable to provide 84,000 of its poorest beneficiaries with their full aid rations due to the continued siege and closure of Gaza. Dr Al-Wahaidi describes the current food table in the Gaza Strip as "Severely deficient because of the siege and closure."...
...Israel has not only allowed a humanitarian crisis to emerge in the Gaza Strip: it has manufactured a chronic humanitarian crisis in Gaza in defiance of international law, as a tool of collective punishment against the citizens of Gaza. PCHR and FIDH have repeatedly called on the International Community to honour their legal and moral obligations as High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention, in order to ensure Israel's respect for the Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). In addition, PCHR and FIDH have reiterated that failure to act by the international community has encouraged Israel to act as if it is above the law, and encourages Israel to violate international human rights and humanitarian law...
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/f45...6!OpenDocument
Quote:
The Israeli Human Right Group B'tselem describes an "existing humanitarian crisis" in Gaza Escalating Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza
11 March 2008
...Recent reports indicate there has been an increase in chronic disease and malnutrition among children under five in the Gaza Strip as well as an increase in children suffering from diarrhea, insomnia, and anxiety. United Nations emergency relief coordinator John Holmes reported, for example, that rates of anemia and diarrhea among children have skyrocketed by 40 percent and 20 percent respectively over the past year. Children’s education is also suffering. Almost 2,000 children have dropped out of school in the last five months because their parents cannot afford to send them. Due to the closures, schools are short of textbooks and other resources, and the exam failure rate has soared to 80-90% in a population known for its high levels of educational achievement...
http://www.oxfamamerica.org/newsandp...crisis-in-gaza
11 March 2008
...Recent reports indicate there has been an increase in chronic disease and malnutrition among children under five in the Gaza Strip as well as an increase in children suffering from diarrhea, insomnia, and anxiety. United Nations emergency relief coordinator John Holmes reported, for example, that rates of anemia and diarrhea among children have skyrocketed by 40 percent and 20 percent respectively over the past year. Children’s education is also suffering. Almost 2,000 children have dropped out of school in the last five months because their parents cannot afford to send them. Due to the closures, schools are short of textbooks and other resources, and the exam failure rate has soared to 80-90% in a population known for its high levels of educational achievement...
http://www.oxfamamerica.org/newsandp...crisis-in-gaza
Quote:
Definition:
20 Sept. 2007: Cabinet decision will impose collective punishment on a civilian population, lead to grave breach of International Law
Israeli rights groups condemn proposed state sanctions against Gaza civilians:
Seven Israeli human rights organizations jointly warn that yesterday's Cabinet decision to limit the electricity and fuel supply to the Gaza Strip and to further restrict movement in and out of Gaza will exacerbate the existing humanitarian crisis there. In addition, the sanctions constitute a grave breach of the foremost principle of international humanitarian law: the obligation to distinguish between combatants and civilians. In addition, the decision is liable to constitute a violation of one of the absolute prohibitions of international law: the ban on collective punishment...
http://www.btselem.org/english/press...s/20070920.asp
Israeli rights groups condemn proposed state sanctions against Gaza civilians:
Seven Israeli human rights organizations jointly warn that yesterday's Cabinet decision to limit the electricity and fuel supply to the Gaza Strip and to further restrict movement in and out of Gaza will exacerbate the existing humanitarian crisis there. In addition, the sanctions constitute a grave breach of the foremost principle of international humanitarian law: the obligation to distinguish between combatants and civilians. In addition, the decision is liable to constitute a violation of one of the absolute prohibitions of international law: the ban on collective punishment...
http://www.btselem.org/english/press...s/20070920.asp
A humanitarian crisis (or "humanitarian disaster") is an event or series of events which represents a critical threat to the health, safety, security or wellbeing of a community or other large group of people, usually over a wide area.
Z, obviously you are in denial. Even the Jerusalem Post admits 10% of Gaza children have been so malnourished their growth has been permanently stunted.
Quote:
'Malnutrition common for Gaza kids'
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1176152773887
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1176152773887
Super Genius
Posts: 1,416
April 9th, 2008, 09:54 PM
A majority of residents have been forcefully relocated, some more than once. Everyone is aware of and has experienced crimes committed by authorities. Most feel like they have no hope for a better future and nothing to loose.
In both the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza, desperate people do desperate things regardless of how severe the consequences.
Important differences exist of course. Events in the Warsaw Ghetto took months. Gaza has been going on for decades. Warsaw resulted in the ethnic cleansing and extermination of most of its inhabitants. Gaza is still in the ethnic cleansing stage. But ethnic cleansing is a slippery slope...
Quoting Zzarchov
I disagree. The parallels between the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and Gaza are more than superficial, but no they aren't the same.
1.)
3.) Gaza is not like the warsaw uprising.
If it were, then there would be no Gaza at this point. The warsaw uprising was against slaughter, and it ended the same way.
Tell me, how many people are left in Gaza after all these years? Is it more than trace amounts?
You know why? Because no matter how hard you try, you cannot compare Israel to Nazi's, nor to South Africa and be anything but a joke.
Oh you can find surface things "Nazi germany had a military, Aparatheid had a military..and SO DOES ISRAEL! DUN DUN DUN!!!" , but nothing of substance that holds up to scrutiny.
Gaza isn't some oppressed Ghetto, its people run by violent thugs who can't run themselves, Israel doesn't want to run and has 100% withdrawn from and whom Egypt doesn't want.
And they can't run themselves, or they wouldn't need Israel providing handouts. And they wouldn't suffer when they stopped.
What do you think it will do if it ever becomes independant and Israel doesn't give them handouts and their neighbours still put up blockades due to their actions?
Its not a viable state. If Its returned to Egypt, I can almost guarantee that Egypt will depopulate the area and resettle them elsewhere (and as its Egyptian territory and Egyptian citizens it can do that)
3.) Gaza is not like the warsaw uprising.
If it were, then there would be no Gaza at this point. The warsaw uprising was against slaughter, and it ended the same way.
Tell me, how many people are left in Gaza after all these years? Is it more than trace amounts?
You know why? Because no matter how hard you try, you cannot compare Israel to Nazi's, nor to South Africa and be anything but a joke.
Oh you can find surface things "Nazi germany had a military, Aparatheid had a military..and SO DOES ISRAEL! DUN DUN DUN!!!" , but nothing of substance that holds up to scrutiny.
Gaza isn't some oppressed Ghetto, its people run by violent thugs who can't run themselves, Israel doesn't want to run and has 100% withdrawn from and whom Egypt doesn't want.
And they can't run themselves, or they wouldn't need Israel providing handouts. And they wouldn't suffer when they stopped.
What do you think it will do if it ever becomes independant and Israel doesn't give them handouts and their neighbours still put up blockades due to their actions?
Its not a viable state. If Its returned to Egypt, I can almost guarantee that Egypt will depopulate the area and resettle them elsewhere (and as its Egyptian territory and Egyptian citizens it can do that)
A majority of residents have been forcefully relocated, some more than once. Everyone is aware of and has experienced crimes committed by authorities. Most feel like they have no hope for a better future and nothing to loose.
In both the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza, desperate people do desperate things regardless of how severe the consequences.
Important differences exist of course. Events in the Warsaw Ghetto took months. Gaza has been going on for decades. Warsaw resulted in the ethnic cleansing and extermination of most of its inhabitants. Gaza is still in the ethnic cleansing stage. But ethnic cleansing is a slippery slope...
Knows Too Much
Posts: 2,313
April 9th, 2008, 10:02 PM
Over a million Arabs live free in Israel.
Something wrong with the picture you're trying to paint for me.
Quoting earth_as_one
Gaza has been ethnically cleansed all right. Of Jews. So now Jordan is Jew free, Gaza is Jew free, and Jews in the west bank live in armed encampments where they face certain death if separated from body guards.
Gaza is still in the ethnic cleansing stage. But ethnic cleansing is a slippery slope...
Over a million Arabs live free in Israel.
Something wrong with the picture you're trying to paint for me.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,680
April 9th, 2008, 10:14 PM
In low income, rural and homeless shelters in the USA there is 10% child malnutrition, lets look at some malnutrition numbers.
Quoting earth_as_one
The UN is far more credible of a source. I'll have to look into that before I can form any type of coherent response.
Z,
The Hamas and Global Research numbers match numbers I referenced in reports from the UN and CARE. That makes their numbers just as reliable.
The Hamas and Global Research numbers match numbers I referenced in reports from the UN and CARE. That makes their numbers just as reliable.
Quoting earth_as_one
Obesity in the first world is also technially a humanitarian disaster, none-the-less I don't consider it worthy of sympathy.
Definition:
A humanitarian crisis (or "humanitarian disaster") is an event or series of events which represents a critical threat to the health, safety, security or wellbeing of a community or other large group of people, usually over a wide area.
A humanitarian crisis (or "humanitarian disaster") is an event or series of events which represents a critical threat to the health, safety, security or wellbeing of a community or other large group of people, usually over a wide area.
Quoting earth_as_one
Im not denying there is issues and poverty in Gaza, but this obviously isn't some hideous hellhole if only 10% of the population may suffer stunted growth from Malnutrition.
Z, obviously you are in denial. Even the Jerusalem Post admits 10% of Gaza children have been so malnourished their growth has been permanently stunted.
In low income, rural and homeless shelters in the USA there is 10% child malnutrition, lets look at some malnutrition numbers.
Quoting
10% is still well above the world average.
Donna G Grigsby, MD,Associate Professor, Department of Pediatrics, University of Kentucky College of Medicine][/b]
Frequency
United States
Fewer than 1% of all children in the United States have chronic malnutrition.
Incidence of malnutrition is less than 10%, even in the highest risk group (children in shelters for the homeless).
Some studies indicate that poor growth secondary to inadequate nutrition occurs in as many as 10% of children in rural areas.
Studies of hospitalized children suggest that as many as one fourth of patients had some form of acute PEM and 27% had chronic PEM.
[b]International
The World Health Organization estimates that by the year 2015, the prevalence of malnutrition will have decreased to 17.6% globally, with 113.4 million children younger than 5 years affected as measured by low weight for age. The overwhelming majority of these children, 112.8 million, will live in developing countries with 70% of these children in Asia, particularly the southcentral region, and 26% in Africa. An additional 165 million (29.0%) children will have stunted length/height secondary to poor nutrition.
Currently, more than half of young children in South Asia have PEM, which is 6.5 times the prevalence in the western hemisphere.
In sub-Saharan Africa, 30% of children have PEM.
Despite marked improvements globally in the prevalence of malnutrition, rates of undernutrition and stunting have continued to rise in Africa, where rates of undernutrition and stunting have risen from 24% to 26.8% and 47.3% to 48.%, respectively since 1990, with the worst increases occurring in the eastern region of Africa.
Frequency
United States
Fewer than 1% of all children in the United States have chronic malnutrition.
Incidence of malnutrition is less than 10%, even in the highest risk group (children in shelters for the homeless).
Some studies indicate that poor growth secondary to inadequate nutrition occurs in as many as 10% of children in rural areas.
Studies of hospitalized children suggest that as many as one fourth of patients had some form of acute PEM and 27% had chronic PEM.
[b]International
The World Health Organization estimates that by the year 2015, the prevalence of malnutrition will have decreased to 17.6% globally, with 113.4 million children younger than 5 years affected as measured by low weight for age. The overwhelming majority of these children, 112.8 million, will live in developing countries with 70% of these children in Asia, particularly the southcentral region, and 26% in Africa. An additional 165 million (29.0%) children will have stunted length/height secondary to poor nutrition.
Currently, more than half of young children in South Asia have PEM, which is 6.5 times the prevalence in the western hemisphere.
In sub-Saharan Africa, 30% of children have PEM.
Despite marked improvements globally in the prevalence of malnutrition, rates of undernutrition and stunting have continued to rise in Africa, where rates of undernutrition and stunting have risen from 24% to 26.8% and 47.3% to 48.%, respectively since 1990, with the worst increases occurring in the eastern region of Africa.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,416
April 9th, 2008, 10:24 PM
UN.org
Quoting Just the Facts
That's what the news said. But upon further research I found this:
And still the rockets fly every day. The children are starving and Hamas celebrates it's weapons shipments. Yeah, if my kids were starving, first thing I would do is loot greenhouses to raise money for crude rockets. Duh.
UN.org
Quote:
....
6. The Greenhouses in the Settlements
Despite some initial looting, most of the settlement greenhouse assets have been secured, work for some 3,000 Palestinian farmers has been assured, and a revenue stream estimated at over 50 million dollars per year can now be expected once the greenhouses are restored and functioning. Commercial success for the greenhouses and for Gazan agriculture in general will depend to a significant extent on adequate export arrangements at the border crossings (see above) as well as on stable supplies of water and energy. Israeli closure of the Karni crossing for two weeks has jeopardized the planting of the fall crop. Pesticides, fertilizers and two million strawberry seedlings were waiting to enter Gaza through Karni, the only cargo entry (and exit) crossing – but at last report, they had been delivered to the agricultural sites...
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/2ee...2!OpenDocument
alsoOFFICE OF THE SPECIAL ENVOY FOR DISENGAGEMENT
Periodic Report
17 October 2005
Periodic Report
17 October 2005
....
6. The Greenhouses in the Settlements
Despite some initial looting, most of the settlement greenhouse assets have been secured, work for some 3,000 Palestinian farmers has been assured, and a revenue stream estimated at over 50 million dollars per year can now be expected once the greenhouses are restored and functioning. Commercial success for the greenhouses and for Gazan agriculture in general will depend to a significant extent on adequate export arrangements at the border crossings (see above) as well as on stable supplies of water and energy. Israeli closure of the Karni crossing for two weeks has jeopardized the planting of the fall crop. Pesticides, fertilizers and two million strawberry seedlings were waiting to enter Gaza through Karni, the only cargo entry (and exit) crossing – but at last report, they had been delivered to the agricultural sites...
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/2ee...2!OpenDocument
Quote:
...• Palestinian security forces report a minimal amount of looting by Palestinians when entering the former settlements. All homes had been demolished prior to the handover of control to the PA and only rubble remained. In the case of public buildings, the contents had been removed prior to the Israeli departure so only the structures remain. There was no obvious signs of vandalism or wanton destruction of former settlement property.
• The Palestinian Economic Development Company (PEDC) entered into the settlement areas on the first day of PA control to assume responsibility for the greenhouses. PEDC reports that 700 persons are being trained to take over the running of the greenhouses in the former Ganei Tal settlement, including former Palestinian settlement workers. PEDC observed that they currently have no access to water or electricity for the greenhouses however once these networks are established the greenhouses could be operational between 7 – 10 days. PEDC stated that quite a number of greenhouses had fallen into disrepair and this was likely due to lower levels of maintenance by their former owners as the disengagement approached...
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/eed...8!OpenDocument
GAZA ACCESS & INFRASTRUCTURE
SITUATION REPORT
15 September 2005
SITUATION REPORT
15 September 2005
...• Palestinian security forces report a minimal amount of looting by Palestinians when entering the former settlements. All homes had been demolished prior to the handover of control to the PA and only rubble remained. In the case of public buildings, the contents had been removed prior to the Israeli departure so only the structures remain. There was no obvious signs of vandalism or wanton destruction of former settlement property.
• The Palestinian Economic Development Company (PEDC) entered into the settlement areas on the first day of PA control to assume responsibility for the greenhouses. PEDC reports that 700 persons are being trained to take over the running of the greenhouses in the former Ganei Tal settlement, including former Palestinian settlement workers. PEDC observed that they currently have no access to water or electricity for the greenhouses however once these networks are established the greenhouses could be operational between 7 – 10 days. PEDC stated that quite a number of greenhouses had fallen into disrepair and this was likely due to lower levels of maintenance by their former owners as the disengagement approached...
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/eed...8!OpenDocument
Super Genius
Posts: 1,416
April 9th, 2008, 10:30 PM
Quoting Zzarchov
Re-examine the numbers. There's malnutrition and malnutrition to the point where it measurable stunts growth.
The UN is far more credible of a source. I'll have to look into that before I can form any type of coherent response.
Obesity in the first world is also technially a humanitarian disaster, none-the-less I don't consider it worthy of sympathy.
Im not denying there is issues and poverty in Gaza, but this obviously isn't some hideous hellhole if only 10% of the population may suffer stunted growth from Malnutrition.
In low income, rural and homeless shelters in the USA there is 10% child malnutrition, lets look at some malnutrition numbers.
10% is still well above the world average.
Obesity in the first world is also technially a humanitarian disaster, none-the-less I don't consider it worthy of sympathy.
Im not denying there is issues and poverty in Gaza, but this obviously isn't some hideous hellhole if only 10% of the population may suffer stunted growth from Malnutrition.
In low income, rural and homeless shelters in the USA there is 10% child malnutrition, lets look at some malnutrition numbers.
10% is still well above the world average.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,486
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
April 9th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Woof!
Quoting Zzarchov
Obesity in the first world is also technially a humanitarian disaster, none-the-less I don't consider it worthy of sympathy.
Not all obesity is the result of "pigging out". A steady diet of breads and KD isn't much in nutrition, is big in starches and the staple of too many low-income familiesObesity in the first world is also technially a humanitarian disaster, none-the-less I don't consider it worthy of sympathy.
Woof!
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,323
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
April 9th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Arendt was an anti-Zionist who equated that ideology with fascism {op cit}.
Quoting Colpy
I would advise that people here that like to deny the Holocaust read Hannah Arendt's book Eichmann in Jerusalem
Arendt was an anti-Zionist who equated that ideology with fascism {op cit}.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,680
April 9th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Stunting growth is about 40% of the world population
If we go look at it (same source)
In addition to PEM, children may be affected by micronutrient deficiencies, which also have a detrimental effect on growth and development. The most common and clinically significant micronutrient deficiencies in children and childbearing women throughout the world include deficiencies of iron, iodine, zinc, and vitamin A and are estimated to affect as many as two billion people. Although fortification programs have helped diminish deficiencies of iodine and vitamin A in individuals in the United States, these deficiencies remain a significant cause of morbidity in developing countries, while deficiencies of vitamin C, B, and D have improved in recent years. Micronutrient deficiencies and protein and calorie deficiencies must be addressed for optimal growth and development to be attained in these individuals.
Stunting growth is about 40% of the world population
If we go look at it (same source)
In addition to PEM, children may be affected by micronutrient deficiencies, which also have a detrimental effect on growth and development. The most common and clinically significant micronutrient deficiencies in children and childbearing women throughout the world include deficiencies of iron, iodine, zinc, and vitamin A and are estimated to affect as many as two billion people. Although fortification programs have helped diminish deficiencies of iodine and vitamin A in individuals in the United States, these deficiencies remain a significant cause of morbidity in developing countries, while deficiencies of vitamin C, B, and D have improved in recent years. Micronutrient deficiencies and protein and calorie deficiencies must be addressed for optimal growth and development to be attained in these individuals.
