undemocratic Americans?

[John Hunt]

Is an undemocratic American even possible? Aren't Americans the most democratic nation, founding their nation on a democratic Revolution, fighting a bloody civil war to secure the democratic rights of slaves, and waging war to spread democratic ideals?

However it seems that the American masses only support democratic ideals, such as freedom of speech and the press and due process of law, as fuzzy feel good notions. These ideals draw far less support when applied to specific situations.

According to Herbert McClosky and Alida Brill, the mass public has much less support for academic freedom, freedom of speech, religious freedom and due process of law in actual circumstances than their leaders. For example, 2/3 of those polled agreed that a group that denounced the government should not be allowed to use a public building for a meeting. Among leaders, 2/3 said the group SHOULD be allowed to use a building.

This support for democratic values changes depending of social class and education levels among the public. According to a 2000 General Social Survey, tolerance levels incrementally increased with each higher education level.

Political sociologist Seymour Lipset found that the upper social class more consistently supported democratic values than the lower classes. He found the upper class was more supportive of civil liberties and internationalism for example than the lower classes.

Democracy and freedom are easy to endorse in undefined terms, but as soon as the example becomes concrete, the masses, especially poorer more uneducated people, are less favorable towards democratic freedoms.

 

[Toro]

They vote on frickin' everything down here. America makes Canada look like the USSR.

Too bad their not as high on civil liberties as the Americans like to portray.

 

[Curiosity]

John Hunt: You seem to be an authority on the U.S. - visited New York one weekend did you?

 

[MikeyDB]

It's not a democracy it's a republic.

Whether you get to vote on something or not, doesn't mean that the majority will get their way....

One state votes for gun-control, another state votes for different or significantly less gun-control does that mean that the majority rule?

"Democracy" is a cute idea, but an idea that can and is highjacked all the time.

 

[gopher]

The biggest problem in the USA is how a consensus can be readily manufactured. Note how the news media consistently portrays Muslims as evildoers from hell even though they have been victimized far more often by Western imperialism and terrorism than the West has suffered from Muslim extremists.

Violence and terrorism are evil. But this is so when committed by either side.

The news media needs to commit itself to a fair and objective exposure of all facts pertaining to violence from all sources, not just one. That will create a more honest and forthright consensus.

 

[MikeyDB]

gopher

Wonderful sentiment but how practical?

If you cultivate a sense of superiority to everyone else how can you afford to permit that sense of superiority to fall into question or doubt?

If you measure your existence by the metric of "individual freedom", how can you permit a notion of a "collective-good" to impinge on that notion?

I think it's perhaps more accurate to confront the idea that America and Americans have simply never grown up.

We have adults on CC suggesting that it's perfectly OK to ignore the rest of the world..... We have adults on CC promoting the virtue of selfishness......

We have adults on CC denying what's happening around them and trying to blame everyone and anyone else for the unfolding disaters that loom around us....

This is a childs view of life.

 

[thomaska]

Is an undemocratic American even possible? Aren't Americans the most democratic nation, founding their nation on a democratic Revolution, fighting a bloody civil war to secure the democratic rights of slaves, and waging war to spread democratic ideals?

However it seems that the American masses only support democratic ideals, such as freedom of speech and the press and due process of law, as fuzzy feel good notions. These ideals draw far less support when applied to specific situations.

According to Herbert McClosky and Alida Brill, the mass public has much less support for academic freedom, freedom of speech, religious freedom and due process of law in actual circumstances than their leaders. For example, 2/3 of those polled agreed that a group that denounced the government should not be allowed to use a public building for a meeting. Among leaders, 2/3 said the group SHOULD be allowed to use a building.

This support for democratic values changes depending of social class and education levels among the public. According to a 2000 General Social Survey, tolerance levels incrementally increased with each higher education level.

Political sociologist Seymour Lipset found that the upper social class more consistently supported democratic values than the lower classes. He found the upper class was more supportive of civil liberties and internationalism for example than the lower classes.

Democracy and freedom are easy to endorse in undefined terms, but as soon as the example becomes concrete, the masses, especially poorer more uneducated people, are less favorable towards democratic freedoms.

:bs:

Nice cut and paste article, very original.

I wonder where these vaunted researchers did there investigation, and how they worded their questions.

I'm not doubting that if you went to Jacksonville, North Carolina and polled the citizens on whether they would want an anti-american group to use the city hall for an "I hate America" rally, that the repsonse would be an overwhleming "No"

However, in San Francisco, No one would bat an eye.

 

[Blackleaf]

Remember that the USA, especially in the South, is the country in which blacks weren't allowed to sit at bars or at the counter in diners until the 1960s. They weren't allowed to sit in certain areas of buses. They weren't allowed to be treated in certain hospitals and were still used as slaves until the 1860s. The few blacks that were in Britain, the country that gave the world modern democracy, in the 1950s had all the rights as everyone else.

America being the "Land of the Free" is nothing but a myth.

 

[triedit]

fighting a bloody civil war to secure the democratic rights of slaves

Actually the Civil War was fought to try to give the states individual rights to make thier own laws. It did nothing to give the slaves any rights. At the end of the war, the government granted freedom to slaves based on a national law.

 

[triedit]

Canada's slaves were "officially" totally free when the British commanded it.

In 1793, under the administration of Lieutenant Governor John Graves Simcoe, legislation (the Act Against Slavery) was passed in Upper Canada that allowed for gradual abolition: slaves already in the province would remain enslaved until death, no new slaves could be brought into Upper Canada, and children born to female slaves would be freed at age 25. In 1803, William Osgoode, then Chief Justice of Lower Canada, ruled that slavery was not compatible with British law. This judgment of historic nature, while it did not abolish slavery, set free 300 slaves and resulted in the rapid decline of the practice of slavery. The Upper Canada Act remained in force until 1833 when the British Parliament's Slavery Abolition Act abolished slavery in all parts of the British Empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Canada

 

[Toro]

Remember that the USA, especially in the South, is the country in which blacks weren't allowed to sit at bars or at the counter in diners until the 1960s. They weren't allowed to sit in certain areas of buses. They weren't allowed to be treated in certain hospitals and were still used as slaves until the 1860s. The few blacks that were in Britain, the country that gave the world modern democracy, in the 1950s had all the rights as everyone else.

America being the "Land of the Free" is nothing but a myth.

I wonder if the Irish would have such a benign view of England.

 

[Curiosity]

Or some Scots

 

[Logic 7]

They vote on frickin' everything down here. America makes Canada look like the USSR.

Too bad their not as high on civil liberties as the Americans like to portray.

I admit you are right toro, however since usa are under patriot act, wiretapping and so on, civil liberties in usa is a joke.

 

[Phil B]

Or some Scots

Eh whats that all about then?

 

[Logic 7]

Remember that the USA, especially in the South, is the country in which blacks weren't allowed to sit at bars or at the counter in diners until the 1960s. They weren't allowed to sit in certain areas of buses. They weren't allowed to be treated in certain hospitals and were still used as slaves until the 1860s. The few blacks that were in Britain, the country that gave the world modern democracy, in the 1950s had all the rights as everyone else.

America being the "Land of the Free" is nothing but a myth.

Funny to read that from you blackleaf, especially when you know the south were loyalist to their teeth to your crappy monarchy, no wonder why.

Whatever peoples can say about USA(including myself), they still have the best consititution ever written in history, keep that in mind.

 

[gopher]

... or Argentinians who are native to the Malvinas ...

 

[gopher]

Wonderful sentiment but how practical?

Indeed, a most challenging question. I suggest that people continue to access the Internet and its many resources for the truth that the controlled reich wing media fails to report.

I mentioned previously that I frequently post on Guardian and read BBC news. There are a great many other sources that also reveal the truth which the Rupert Murdochs don't want you to know. Take that info, post letters to the editor on newspapers, and inform readers of the real truth. Eventually, when people see that truth as they now do with Iraq they will demand further exposure of it. This is what will enlighten others and eventually bring about needed changes.

 

[karrie]

going back to the OP, I wonder if Canadian statistics would be much different. Do the 'less educated' in Canada have a much broader understanding of the rights of free speech than the 'lower class' in the US do?

Is it really an american issue? Or a human one?

 

[Twila]

Whatever peoples can say about USA(including myself), they still have the best consititution ever written in history, keep that in mind.

I have to ask...what does keeping that in mind have to do with anything? I can write you an IOU for a million dollars. It's the best IOU ever written in history...means shyte though. Cause I ain't ever gonna pay ya. So, if the constitution isn't implemented or practiced what good is the writting?

 

[Phil B]

... or Argentinians who are native to the Malvinas ...

:laughing9::laughing9::laughing9::laughing9: :roll:

0/10 Accuracy - could do better.