Iraqi Women

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Taking advantage of a brief lull in the action while some of my male colleagues were out on a military embed, I tried to follow up on a promise I'd made to myself when I arrived on this latest assignment to Iraq – to try to find out who is the Iraqi woman circa 2007?

Unable to stray too far, I started by chatting with some of the Iraqi women in the compound where our hotel is located. On another occasion, when it was just too dangerous for me as a Westerner to venture out, I asked our female translator, Rose, to do some of the leg work for me. I also persuaded her to make some pretty embarrassing phone calls.

What I found, while perhaps not exactly the in-depth take on female society I’d hoped for, offers a small taste of the everyday lives of some Iraqi women. The headline, should you choose to stop reading now, is no sex, too much food and no future.

Girl talk
Shams, the 24-year-old woman at the security desk in the lobby of our hotel, made it adamantly clear that she believes she has no future in Iraq.

"The only way I have a future is if I come back with you to England," Shams said. "There is no hope for the women of Iraq. And with all these killings, we'll be left with no men. The only way to secure a husband is to leave the country."

And it’s not just the future – it’s the now. Shams’ youth has been severely compromised by the security situation. It’s too dangerous for trips out, so there is no way to meet boys on dates and the only recourse for friendship and intimacy is via a cell phone or the Internet. The highlight of the week for her is a visit to a girlfriend who lives next door.

"I miss everything we used to have in the old days [under Saddam]," Shams said. "The going out to restaurants or hanging out with friends eating ice cream till 3 a.m. These days, with the curfew, I have to be home by 7 p.m. max."

And then there is the shopping. "We all go clothes shopping in one safe area, which means everyone ends up buying the same things, so it looks like a uniform," she complained. Although she admitted that like so many of her Western contemporaries, she still manages to spend most of her salary on clothes.

Or what's left of it after she’s paid $200 of her $500 monthly salary to the taxi driver who brings her safely to work. Other friends who earn less simply cannot afford to get to work. "So they stay at home, unable to practice the professions they've studied for," she said.

Working 9 to 5
But at the bank, I did manage to meet a lively group of ladies who still manage to practice their profession. While the male manager hovered around nervously trying to inject his presence into our conversation, we ignored him and chatted away.

We hit the usual topics of the dangers of simply getting to work, frustrations of infrequent shopping trips, the nightmare of juggling home-work-cooking with power and electricity being scarce and money always being incredibly tight. Again, I was hit by a wall of hopelessness.

"The situation is worse than ever. It’s spiraling right down," said Aseel, the 26-year-old single woman of the group and office siren who had regrettably just started wearing a headscarf because of the deteriorating situation. "Only God can help us," she said.

That was exactly why her married colleague, Hoda, 28, started wearing a headscarf three years ago. "I thought, I better play it right by God," she explained. "I’ve given up on the future."

"It's the worst possible thing, not having anything to look forward too," Hoda said. "Most people spend all their money on food. They just sit inside, in front of the TV, during curfew and eat. It’s the only pleasure we have left," she said, reminiscing about the days when they could walk in the park, go to a club, have a swim.

And on that note, I waited until the male boss left the room and broached the subject of sex. Was the situation taking its toll there, too? I'd read that the birthrate in Iraq had dropped by six percent since 2003, so something must be up.

Menal, a 24-year-old newlywed blushed and conceded that, yes, like everything else, her sex life wassuffering.

Hoda was more forthcoming. "Because we are both so stressed – the desire for sex, as for so many other things in life, has diminished."

Looking on the bright side, Hoda added, "The only good thing is where I was once worried about my husband cheating on me, now I don’t think he'd be up to it. And even if were, there would be few willing partners!"

Home alone
Meantime, Suha, a 32-year-old housewife, told us over the phone that she and her husband quarrel all the time because of the situation and that the depression it brings is impacting their sex life – big time.

"I just don't go out. I spend all my day eating and sleeping," she explained. "I can no longer afford a hairdresser, and even if I could, it would be too dangerous to go there. Some people were kidnapped at the pharmacy round the corner the other day, so that's now a no-go, too. There are no social visits, and it’s so bad that I couldn't attend my uncle’s funeral. It's got to the stage where I change my clothes three times a day just to pretend I'm going out."

Suha also shared a total mistrust of Iraq’s newly elected politicians, even the women. "These women don’t take the needs of the normal Iraq women into consideration," she complained.


Ladies who lunch
I asked Rose, our translator, if she'd mind asking a few questions at the up-market Alwiya Social Club, a middle-class bastion in downtown Baghdad. There the tempo was a little more upbeat.
Zainab, a 36-year-old professional who was lunching with her friend, Hyam, believed the role of women was actually improving. "Now at least we have women in parliament, ministers and ambassadors. Unlike under Saddam when we didn’t even have a parliament," she pointed out.
Hyam, 43, and the mother of three, was also more optimistic.'

"We hope that the role of women in politics will improve the lot of Iraqi women. I have to hope, otherwise I couldn’t live," she admitted

And her life at home seemed not too bad either. "I manage to get out to some social events and the hairdresser is right next to my home, so I go whenever I want. I work out at home on my exercise bike and when things get too much, we go to Kurdistan for a break."

What about sex? Well even for Hyam it’s a no-go. Now that's a real leveler.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Sounds to me like Iraqis are worse off as a result of an invasion, occupation and civil war. So why did the US invade Iraq again? I still don't see any signs of WMDs. Terrorism was non-existent in Iraq and now its rampant. Iraqis may be free to vote, but effectively they like prisoners. American taxpayers are on the hook for hundreds of billions of dollars. The world is more dangerous as a result and we aren't any safer.

But on the plus side Halliburton stock is worth about triple what it was before the invasion. American VP Dick Cheney former Halliburton CEO and many other wealthy people are much wealthier now than before the war.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Sounds to me like Iraqis are worse off as a result of an invasion, occupation and civil war. So why did the US invade Iraq again? I still don't see any signs of WMDs. Terrorism was non-existent in Iraq and now its rampant. Iraqis may be free to vote, but effectively they like prisoners. American taxpayers are on the hook for hundreds of billions of dollars. The world is more dangerous as a result and we aren't any safer.

But on the plus side Halliburton stock is worth about triple what it was before the invasion. American VP Dick Cheney former Halliburton CEO and many other wealthy people are much wealthier now than before the war.


Kind of how like France was worse off after being liberated from the Nazi's, or how all that violence happened for over a decade in the civil rights movement.

I guess your saying that its better to live in suffering and oppression if it would cause instability to fix.

Much like how you should never get someone out of an abusive relationship, since it will be hard and painful for the first while.

God, it bothers me most that while people are finally understanding the suffering in a war, they don't understand the time frame in a war and why its something that should be avoided except in desperate situations.

In this case , Iraq is still better than the days of Saddam for all but 20% of the population (the Sunni's) the Kurds aren't having the corpses of their women and children bulldozed into mass graves, and Uday isn't shooting Shia for sport and having massive numbers of them hung from street lights by their ankles as a message.

But yes, for that 20% of the population, many of whom worked as the interrogators, secret police and occupying military of the other 80% (or profited from them) Im sure this new found loss of aparathied must be very troubling.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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Aren't the Shia getting blown up fairly regularly? Doesn't seem like a walk in the park for them right now either.
 

JoeSchmoe

Time Out
May 28, 2007
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Uday isn't shooting Shia for sport and having massive numbers of them hung from street lights by their ankles as a message.

At least there were relatively few torturers in Iraq... Sadam and Sons... Now there's 200,000 American Udays running around the country...

Yes, those lucky Iraqis have it so good now!! hehehe.... feeble.... very feeble attempt to justify 10's of thousands dead Iraqis.... The Yanks make Sadam's murderous tendencies look like child's play!!
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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Aren't the Shia getting blown up fairly regularly? Doesn't seem like a walk in the park for them right now either.

Ask them what they would prefer.

Being attacked and having their say in government, or being strung up from lightposts with no hope of improvement.

It may not be better, but it aint worse.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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The worst suffering in Iraq during the decade before the US led invasion was a result of economic sanctions, not Hussein's rule. The economic sanctions were supposed to be lifted when Iraq no longer posed a WMD threat. That never happened and as a result millions of people suffered because of a non-existant threat. If you review the record, it's clear the US and the UK were responsible for maintaining the sanctions long after they served their purpose.

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1084

Also:
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0311c.asp
and
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2002/11/0079384

The worst of Hussein's atrocities were back in the 1980's while Iraq was simulataneously fighting a war with Iran and suppressing a Kurdish revolt. Hussein's record of ruthless violence during war is about the same what Iraqis have experienced under the American occupation.

Read what the US secreatary of state claims about Iraq under Hussein's rule before the invasion:

http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/19675.htm

Eliminate the deaths atributed to economic sanctions and the atrocities left attributed to Hussein during the last three years of his rule were:

122 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in February/March 2000;
23 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in October 2001; and
At least 130 Iraqi women were beheaded between June 2000 and April 2001.

Not much between April 2001 and the March 2003 invasion. Sounds peaceful even compared to today. Only 275 people executed because they were convicted of capital crimes. No car bombs, collateral damage, death squads, kidnappings... I imagine Iraqis must look back to the days of just starving as a result of the economic sanctions as the good old days.


March 19, 2007 Iraqi opinion poll
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/1033aIraqpoll.pdf
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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They suffered because they supported a genocidal maniac.

He didn't gas those kurds and plow them into a ditch himself. His army, his military police, they came from 20% of the population who ruled at the expense of the other 80, killing them all not feeling bad when their neighbour just up and disappears.

You know what ends the sanctions? Not supporting a tinpot dictator.


He made the sanctions bad.

Kurdistan, which got 13% of the oil for food revenue, had their dinars worth 100 times as much, the only difference being they weren't run by Saddam.



Here is an old record of this from the Kurdish Government. Notice how nice the UN was in supporting a Genocidal Dictator.

http://old.krg.org/docs/articles/hirst-kurds-reap-sanctions.asp

And they were the most backward represed area of the country before they shrugged him off their backs.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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```"I miss everything we used to have in the old days [under Saddam]```


The right wing Bush loving America haters on this forum, however, continue to insist they are better off today than under Saddam.

If Iraq is such a paradise thanks to Bush as they stupidly insist, why don't they move there???
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Well if you look at the American revolutionary war for independence you could have said the same thing, Gopher, that people here were better under British rule than during the war years.

The other issue is we will never know what evil we avoided were we to allow another 10 more years of Saddam rule. Perhaps that one evil was Saddam's public statement that he should have had the nuclear bomb before he invaded Kuwait.

Most people thought Douglas McArthur was crazy to propose attacking China during the Korean War. Now 50 years later by leaving a divided peninsula we have a nightmare Orwellian state living in darkness and barely in the headlines for liberals to care about.

Patton wanted to go to Moscow. Maybe we might have avoided an Iron Curtain ?


Who knows what narrative the parallel universe writes ?

But then it is weird to use these American imperialistic examples, eh ?
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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I have posted proof on this forum that it was the unpatriotic Republicans under Hoover that gave money and war materiel to Lenin thereby entrenching the Soviets into power in Russia. If they had not done so we would not have had the Iron Curtain.

I have also posted proof that it was those same Republicans (with some Democrats) who gave support to Hitler's war machine.

Had you troubled yourself to read those earlier posts (some of which were created by conservatives) you would not have posed these questions.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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I know that bit history every bit as well as you do. The difference being that Patton and MacArthur's words and deeds resulted because of Republican financing and entrenching of America's enemies.

If the Republicans hadn't done that, there wars would not have taken place. Therefore, it proves that it is the Pukes who are unpatriotic.
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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So Gopher.

Are you saying Kurds and Shia, 80% of the population, should live worse off under Saddam, so that 20% can live better?

Are you aware White plantation owners did not live as well once slavery ended too?