As this makes our news, most likely we hear the second verion rather than the first version.
Do (1) and (2) mean the same thing?
Are they both the truth?
Do (1) and (2) mean the same thing?
Are they both the truth?
Violence on Israel/Lebanon border
- Thread starter earth_as_one
- Start date
Both stories are plausable, but it comes down to which side you are on. We will never get the full details and at this point I don't think we can say one side outweighs the other. Neither side is lilly white and neither side is evil incarnate. A lot of history had come down since this all started and they only way there will be peace is if both sides decide to choose peace no matter what the other has done. Maybe this is too much to ask and I am dreaming but dreaming never hurts.
Did the War of 1812 start because:
1) America saw a chance at a landgrab while England was involved in the Napoleonic Wars under the excuse of provocation by England in stopping American ships trying to run a legal blockade of French ports in time of war.
or
2) America was justfiably outraged at the Royal Navy pressing American sailors in to service and retaliated in the only way it could by attacking the closest English colony?
1) America saw a chance at a landgrab while England was involved in the Napoleonic Wars under the excuse of provocation by England in stopping American ships trying to run a legal blockade of French ports in time of war.
or
2) America was justfiably outraged at the Royal Navy pressing American sailors in to service and retaliated in the only way it could by attacking the closest English colony?
Both statements in that news article I posted are true, but they don't have the same meaning.
Israel did cross into Lebanon, maybe unintentionally or maybe by design who knows. But I thought this story is a good example of how the truth can be used to deceive.
Another deception is the impression people have that Israel has respected the agreement which ending the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah last summer.
Israel's regular violations of the ceasefire agreement hasn't been making our news. But that doesn't mean they aren't happening and aren't newsworthy. They don't make our news because they might cause people to think.
Oops we didn't mean to shoot at your clearly marked ship.
Also Israel is probably right about this:
Likely all kinds of weapons are being smuggled into southern Lebanon, including man portable air defense systems.
Sooner or later this war will heat up again.
Israel did cross into Lebanon, maybe unintentionally or maybe by design who knows. But I thought this story is a good example of how the truth can be used to deceive.
Another deception is the impression people have that Israel has respected the agreement which ending the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah last summer.
Israel's regular violations of the ceasefire agreement hasn't been making our news. But that doesn't mean they aren't happening and aren't newsworthy. They don't make our news because they might cause people to think.
List of major Israeli ceasefire violations
Despite the very minimal demands laid upon Israel under UN resolution 1701, Israel has been constantly violating the terms of the ceasefire agreement.Some of the more important violations:
Saturday January 27 2007
Eight people were hospitalized Saturday after inhaling toxic gases from poisonous balloons dropped by Israeli warplanes over Upper Nabatiyeh in southern Lebanon, the Lebanese National News Agency reported. NNA said among those who were rushed to hospital suffering from nausea and fatigue were a Lebanese staff sergeant, a recruit and An Nahar reporter Rana Jouni. The agency said Israeli warplanes dropped at least 10 poisonous balloons with Hebrew markings over Upper Nabatiyeh at about 9 am Saturday.
NNA said contacts have been made between the Lebanese army command and the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon, which has instructed an Italian peacekeeping unit to take samples from the balloons for examination. The agency said the results are likely to come out on Sunday. NNA had earlier said that the Lebanese army’s engineering unit headed to the area and destroyed the balloons by explosives. The army, in a communiqué issued Friday, warned civilians against messing with the balloons and urged them to report finding them to the closest army unit. (Naharnet)
Thursday December 14, 2006
The Israeli Army carried out a brief violation of the UN-demarcated Blue Line, Lebanon’s National News Agency (NNA) said. The NNA said two Israeli tanks and about 60 soldiers penetrated 3 kilometers inside South Lebanon and “opened fire” at two shepherds herding sheep near the disputed Shebaa Farms. The shepherds, identified as Omar and Hicham Abdul Al, took cover at Halta Farm, while some of their livestock were hit by Israeli gunfire.
Monday December 11, 2006
Israeli jets violated airspace in southern Lebanon Monday by flying at low altitude over areas where UN peacekeepers are stationed. The jets also flew over the cities of Tyre, Marjayun and Nabatiyeh. (DPA)
Friday November 17, 2006
THREE Israeli warplanes violated again the Lebanese airspace. The fighter-bombers overflew the Tyre and Bint Jbeil areas where troops of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) are deployed, intruding at high altitude repeatedly.(AFP)
Thursday November 9, 2006
Twelve Israeli jets violated Lebanese airspace on Thursday. The fighter-bombers entered Lebanon at 12:25 p.m. and flew high over the coastal town of Naqoura, headquarters of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) near the borders with Israel. They then flew over other Southern regions before flying at a lower altitude over the eastern city of Baalbek, the army added. The 12 planes left Lebanese airspace at 1 p.m. after flying over Tripoli and Akkar in the North.(AP)
Tuesday October 31, 2006
Israeli fighter jets dived low over the southern suburbs at least six times before roaring back into the sky. Lebanese security officials said eight Israeli jets had crossed the border and dispersed, flying over southern and central Lebanon, with some reaching south Beirut.Israeli fighter jets dived low over the southern suburbs at least six times before roaring back into the sky. Lebanese security officials said eight Israeli jets had crossed the border and dispersed, flying over southern and central Lebanon, with some reaching south Beirut.
Tuesday’s show was the heaviest aerial incursion of Lebanon since the end of Israel’s 34-day offensive against the Hezbollah militant group. Lebanon, with United Nations support, has frequently protested Israeli flights over its territory. (Reuters)
Wednesday October 25, 2006
Two Israeli warplanes and a German navy vessel have clashed off the Lebanese coast, the Defence Ministry in Berlin said on Wednesday without giving further details. Germany daily Der Tagesspiegel earlier on Wednesday quoted a junior German defence minister as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters flew low over the German ship and fired two shots. The jets also released infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying. “I can confirm that there was an incident,” a ministry spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday. An investigation was underway and he therefore was unable to provide further information, he added. (Reuters)
Monday October 23, 2006...
Well I think you get the point. You can read the rest here....
http://tadamon.resist.ca/index.php/?p=246
Oops we didn't mean to shoot at your clearly marked ship.
Also Israel is probably right about this:
Likely all kinds of weapons are being smuggled into southern Lebanon, including man portable air defense systems.
Sooner or later this war will heat up again.
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Not much has changed. If you want to start a war first you have to come up with a reason.
There's more than two sides involved, the two up front sides are dwarfed by the US influance on both sides.Another example of Uncle Sham fomenting violence for its own agenda.:wave:
Why don't we read an article from a source I have found the story at, that you have used in the past, earth. It is for the most part the first time I have ever found anything resembling objective at this source, so I thought I should use it.
Lebanese and Israeli troops clash
A tank fired two shells at the Lebanese position
after the bulldozer came under fire
An Israeli army patrol has returned fire at Lebanese troops after they shot at an Israeli military bulldozer near the border between the two countries.
A Lebanese army spokesman said the bulldozer, which was searching for explosive devices, had crossed into southern Lebanon but Israel has insisted it was on the Israeli side of the border.
bodyVariable350="Htmlphcontrol1_lblError";The Lebanese army spokesman said: "An Israeli army bulldozer crossed into south Lebanon tonight. Our forces opened fire at it. It pulled back and there was a brief exchange of fire."
An Israeli source said: "We called for them to stop firing, they shot at us and we returned fire."
bodyVariable300="Htmlphcontrol2_lblError";David Chater, Al Jazeera's correspondent in northern Israel, said that two Israeli bulldozers had crossed a security fence but that they had "stayed within the internationally-recognised border of Israel".
'Serious incident'
He said a tank accompanying the bulldozers had fired two shells at the Lebanese position after the bulldozer came under fire, but no casualties were reported.
Nehad Ismail, Lon, UK
Milos Strugar, the spokesman for the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), issued a statement on Thursday describing the incident as "serious" and said UN soldiers had been deployed in the area.
He said: "The exchange was initiated by the Lebanese army after an IDF bulldozer crossed the technical fence in an apparent attempt to clear the area between the ... fence and the Blue Line of mines.
"UNIFIL ... has been in contact with both sides urging them to cease hostilities immediately."
A spokesman for the Israeli military said the team was clearing an area in which four unexploded bombs, which it said were planted by Hezbollah, had been found on Monday on the Israeli side of the Blue Line, the border that was marked out by the UN after the Israelis withdrew from Lebanon in 2000.
Lebanese security sources told Al Jazeera on Wednesday that the army had been put on high alert and was ready to stop any Israeli incursion should it cross into Lebanese territory.
The Lebanese army said a state of emergency had been declared in the border village of Maroun al-Ras.
Show of strength
Hezbollah has said the bombs that were detonated by the Israelis on Monday were planted before the war in southern Lebanon last summer as a defensive measure.
The security situation has been escalating in the area over the last couple of days following the testimony of Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, before the commission investigating last year's war.
Olmert said one of the successes of the Israeli offensive was to drive Hezbollah forces away from the border.
Zeina Khodr, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Lebanon, says that, subsequently, Hezbollah flags and signs can be seen frequently in the area as a demonstration that they still have a strong presence and support in the border area.
On Wednesday Amir Peretz, the Israeli defence minister, accused Syria of allowing the rearmament of Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon and said Israel has the right to act "forcefully" against the group to counter the threat.
The Israeli army says that the bombs detonated on Monday contravened UN resolution 1701, passed to resolve the conflict last year.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FF9AF073-9272-4F6E-AAE7-EFE04B360164.htm
Is aljazeera turning a corner here?
Yet dispite me finding this at one of your touted faves, you did not use it. I suspect because it didn't fit into your agenda.
Lebanese and Israeli troops clash
after the bulldozer came under fire
An Israeli army patrol has returned fire at Lebanese troops after they shot at an Israeli military bulldozer near the border between the two countries.
A Lebanese army spokesman said the bulldozer, which was searching for explosive devices, had crossed into southern Lebanon but Israel has insisted it was on the Israeli side of the border.
bodyVariable350="Htmlphcontrol1_lblError";The Lebanese army spokesman said: "An Israeli army bulldozer crossed into south Lebanon tonight. Our forces opened fire at it. It pulled back and there was a brief exchange of fire."
An Israeli source said: "We called for them to stop firing, they shot at us and we returned fire."
bodyVariable300="Htmlphcontrol2_lblError";David Chater, Al Jazeera's correspondent in northern Israel, said that two Israeli bulldozers had crossed a security fence but that they had "stayed within the internationally-recognised border of Israel".
'Serious incident'
He said a tank accompanying the bulldozers had fired two shells at the Lebanese position after the bulldozer came under fire, but no casualties were reported.
Nehad Ismail, Lon, UK
Milos Strugar, the spokesman for the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), issued a statement on Thursday describing the incident as "serious" and said UN soldiers had been deployed in the area.
He said: "The exchange was initiated by the Lebanese army after an IDF bulldozer crossed the technical fence in an apparent attempt to clear the area between the ... fence and the Blue Line of mines.
"UNIFIL ... has been in contact with both sides urging them to cease hostilities immediately."
A spokesman for the Israeli military said the team was clearing an area in which four unexploded bombs, which it said were planted by Hezbollah, had been found on Monday on the Israeli side of the Blue Line, the border that was marked out by the UN after the Israelis withdrew from Lebanon in 2000.
Lebanese security sources told Al Jazeera on Wednesday that the army had been put on high alert and was ready to stop any Israeli incursion should it cross into Lebanese territory.
The Lebanese army said a state of emergency had been declared in the border village of Maroun al-Ras.
Show of strength
Hezbollah has said the bombs that were detonated by the Israelis on Monday were planted before the war in southern Lebanon last summer as a defensive measure.
The security situation has been escalating in the area over the last couple of days following the testimony of Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, before the commission investigating last year's war.
Olmert said one of the successes of the Israeli offensive was to drive Hezbollah forces away from the border.
Zeina Khodr, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Lebanon, says that, subsequently, Hezbollah flags and signs can be seen frequently in the area as a demonstration that they still have a strong presence and support in the border area.
On Wednesday Amir Peretz, the Israeli defence minister, accused Syria of allowing the rearmament of Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon and said Israel has the right to act "forcefully" against the group to counter the threat.
The Israeli army says that the bombs detonated on Monday contravened UN resolution 1701, passed to resolve the conflict last year.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FF9AF073-9272-4F6E-AAE7-EFE04B360164.htm
Is aljazeera turning a corner here?
Yet dispite me finding this at one of your touted faves, you did not use it. I suspect because it didn't fit into your agenda.
I think this Gurdian article about sums up what happened:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6401857,00.html
Also this version provides some additional details about the confusion surrounding the devices Israel destroyed and why the border is unclear in this area.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=79287
Neither side dipsutes the fact that the IDF broke through the fence on or near the Israeli/Lebanon border.
Israel claims land on the Lebanese side of the fence belongs to Israel.
Lebanon claims the fence is on the border.
Did Israel cross into Lebanon? That is not 100% clear.
The Israelis had to know cutting a hole through the fence and crossing over to the other side would provoke the same response from Lebanon that Israel would give if Lebanese militants cut through the same fence and crossed over to the Israeli side. So it really doesn't matter if the fence is on the border, on the Israeli side or on the Lebanese side.
Is Israel respecting the terms of the ceasefire? Clearly not.
Even without this incident, Israeli warplanes regularly violate Lebanese airspace. UNIFIL should be given orders and the capability to shoot down Israeli warplanes in Lebanon's airspace.
Is Hezbollah and Lebanon respecting the terms of the ceasefire? Clearly not.
Hezbollah isn't supposed to be anywhere near the Israeli border. Also Lebanon and UNIFIL are supposed to stop Hezbollah from re-arming itself. Even though there is no proof that arms smuggling is going on, it probably is.
I predict as soon as Hezbollah acquires the ability to shoot down Israeli warplanes, they will begin an open war with Israel by attempting to seize control of the Shebaa farms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_Farms
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6401857,00.html
Also this version provides some additional details about the confusion surrounding the devices Israel destroyed and why the border is unclear in this area.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=79287
Neither side dipsutes the fact that the IDF broke through the fence on or near the Israeli/Lebanon border.
Israel claims land on the Lebanese side of the fence belongs to Israel.
Lebanon claims the fence is on the border.
Did Israel cross into Lebanon? That is not 100% clear.
The Israelis had to know cutting a hole through the fence and crossing over to the other side would provoke the same response from Lebanon that Israel would give if Lebanese militants cut through the same fence and crossed over to the Israeli side. So it really doesn't matter if the fence is on the border, on the Israeli side or on the Lebanese side.
Is Israel respecting the terms of the ceasefire? Clearly not.
Even without this incident, Israeli warplanes regularly violate Lebanese airspace. UNIFIL should be given orders and the capability to shoot down Israeli warplanes in Lebanon's airspace.
Is Hezbollah and Lebanon respecting the terms of the ceasefire? Clearly not.
Hezbollah isn't supposed to be anywhere near the Israeli border. Also Lebanon and UNIFIL are supposed to stop Hezbollah from re-arming itself. Even though there is no proof that arms smuggling is going on, it probably is.
I predict as soon as Hezbollah acquires the ability to shoot down Israeli warplanes, they will begin an open war with Israel by attempting to seize control of the Shebaa farms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_Farms
Dispite your fained attempt at looking objective, nice try by the way.
But this comment is self defeating...
"Even without this incident, Israeli warplanes regularly violate Lebanese airspace. UNIFIL should be given orders and the capability to shoot down Israeli warplanes in Lebanon's airspace."
As long as Iran supplies the Hezbollah, Israel will continue to fly recon missions. But if we measure these actions by your standard. Then an attack on Iran should be made, to eb the tide of weapons, no?
You can't have it both ways.
But this comment is self defeating...
"Even without this incident, Israeli warplanes regularly violate Lebanese airspace. UNIFIL should be given orders and the capability to shoot down Israeli warplanes in Lebanon's airspace."
As long as Iran supplies the Hezbollah, Israel will continue to fly recon missions. But if we measure these actions by your standard. Then an attack on Iran should be made, to eb the tide of weapons, no?
You can't have it both ways.
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OK bear, explain why Israel and Lebanon can't both be in violation of the ceasefire at the same time.
I see you edited this to clarify what you meant. Thanks.
I was not aware that the ceasefire deal reached last August allowed Israel to fly warplanes into Lebanon for recon missions.
Which paragraph was that in?
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8808.doc.htm
rotflmao
I didn't change anything in that post. I added the word "be", between should and made.
The post stands as it did when you asked that ridiculous question and the fact you have failed to answered my claim that you can't have it both ways, only confirms that you either have no idea how to read, or you can't because I have exposed the flaws and bias in your views, yet again.
I didn't change anything in that post. I added the word "be", between should and made.
The post stands as it did when you asked that ridiculous question and the fact you have failed to answered my claim that you can't have it both ways, only confirms that you either have no idea how to read, or you can't because I have exposed the flaws and bias in your views, yet again.