German Court Bans Head Scarves

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
German court upholds ban on head scarves for Muslim teachers

Last Updated: Monday, January 15, 2007 | 12:43 PM ET
The Associated Press


A Munich court on Monday upheld a ban on Muslim teachers wearing head scarves in schools of the German state of Bavaria under a law that says teachers' attire must be in line with "western Christian" values.

A Berlin-based Islamic association had complained about the law, which authorities in the conservative-run state of Bavaria have used to ban head scarves while allowing Roman Catholic nuns to continue to wear their head-covering habits in schools.

The Bavarian Constitutional Court ruled Monday that the application of the law in the state neither violated religious freedom nor was discriminatory.

Conservative politicians welcomed the verdict.

An Islamic head scarf represented a "deliberate separation from western values, and that is not compatible with our constitution," Wolfgang Bosbach, a federal legislator for Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union, said on N24 television.

However, a lawyer for the Islamic Religious Community said some of its members were considering taking their case to the Federal Constitutional Court, Germany's highest court.

Under Germany's federal system of government, education is almost totally under the control of authorities in its 16 states. Authorities in several states, including Baden-Wuerttemberg and Hesse, have introduced similar head scarf bans.

The Bavarian law, introduced in November 2004, forbids teachers from wearing during lessons clothes or other items that seem to express views "incompatible with the basic values of the constitution and its educational goals, including western Christian educational and cultural values."

Judge Karl Huber insisted the Bavarian law did not favour the Christian faith. But because teachers must transmit the values of the constitution, the religious feelings of students and parents must be considered, the court said.

Albin Dannhaeuser, head of the Bavarian teachers association, said he hoped the ruling would put an end to political debate about religion in the state's schools. He said there are only two Muslim female teachers in Bavaria, both of whom wear hats to sidestep the head scarf ban.

© The Canadian Press, 2006
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
how deplorable. how can they sit there and tell themselves this doesn't violate religious freedom? If someone told me that I could not wear my cross, I'd sure as heck feel my religious freedom was being infringed upon. Such a simple thing, a headscarf. sheesh.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
how deplorable. how can they sit there and tell themselves this doesn't violate religious freedom? If someone told me that I could not wear my cross, I'd sure as heck feel my religious freedom was being infringed upon. Such a simple thing, a headscarf. sheesh.
What kind of cross do you bear?
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
4,276
42
48
60
Richmond, Virginia
how deplorable. how can they sit there and tell themselves this doesn't violate religious freedom? If someone told me that I could not wear my cross, I'd sure as heck feel my religious freedom was being infringed upon. Such a simple thing, a headscarf. sheesh.


Im told I cant wear my pentagram. People with small minds run the world.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
4,276
42
48
60
Richmond, Virginia
Really? Who may I ask told you that? And why not call the ACLU?


I would in a heart beat but the work was part time and under the table. Also Im bi-polar and its easy to blame that too. But let me tell you......as close as I am to DC my friends have the same problems. Being Pagan in the states makes it very difficult to find not only work but acceptance.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
I would in a heart beat but the work was part time and under the table. Also Im bi-polar and its easy to blame that too. But let me tell you......as close as I am to DC my friends have the same problems. Being Pagan in the states makes it very difficult to find not only work but acceptance.

No, I don't think so. There are bigots in abundance all over the place, but there are laws to ensure citizens have rights, especially in the US where individual civil liberties are top priority. Correction, they are the only priority.

Call the ACLU. You have an obligation to do so.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
I'm a little confused. First of all, why is it so important for the religions of the Middle East to be taught in German schools? Secondly, a teaching environment should be openly communicative. Furthermore, teachers are role models. If the teachers are permitted to hide their bodies and most of their heads with draped cloth, how are children supposed to read the teacher? When I say read the teacher, I mean it in the most common meaning of the term - where we read people's body language and full facial expressions all the time.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
I'm a little confused. First of all, why is it so important for the religions of the Middle East to be taught in German schools? Secondly, a teaching environment should be openly communicative. Furthermore, teachers are role models. If the teachers are permitted to hide their bodies and most of their heads with draped cloth, how are children supposed to read the teacher? When I say read the teacher, I mean it in the most common meaning of the term - where we read people's body language and full facial expressions all the time.

The religion isn't being taught... but the teachers in the schools can be Muslim. And they're not talking burqas... they're talking about headscarves. there's nothing about a headscarf that would keep a child from reading a teacher's face. I know I use my ears, hair, and neck very little when it comes to body language.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
The religion isn't being taught... but the teachers in the schools can be Muslim. And they're not talking burqas... they're talking about headscarves. there's nothing about a headscarf that would keep a child from reading a teacher's face. I know I use my ears, hair, and neck very little when it comes to body language.

So how do the Muslim teachers in Germany teach the children about Christmas and Easter? I mean, at the very least they should make a small gift for their parents, especially in grade 1. Also, easter presents some terrific colouring exercises.

Head scarves are nice, but they aren't quite as open and free as the 1960s idea of freedom, something that has been pretty much adopted by the Western world. Also, how do the Muslim head scarf wearing teachers (sounds like a strict adherence to their religion) relate to teenage girls that come to school wearing black bras and lace see through shirts ... are they able to remain neutral or do they form "opinions" about the students sexual looseness? I mean, can someone be a strict religious Muslim and teach open Western culture and attitudes?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Well, this is what happens when you keep religion intertwined in government. Here where we're more secular, we don't make such distinctions. If it's in their constitution theres not much that can be done. I would also say this is probably something I would research before moving to a foreign country.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
Well, this is what happens when you keep religion intertwined in government. Here where we're more secular, we don't make such distinctions. If it's in their constitution theres not much that can be done. I would also say this is probably something I would research before moving to a foreign country.

Research is good, as is diversity. If I want my children to be taught by Muslim women in Muslim dress, I know where to live. If I want my children to be taught with Christian values and Christain traditions, I hope I can still count on Western Europe to retain this culture.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
I don't see what the big deal is. They aren't talking about indoctrinating children into Islam or anything and I didn't see anything where it said that the teachers' headscarves interfered with them doing their jobs.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
So how do the Muslim teachers in Germany teach the children about Christmas and Easter? I mean, at the very least they should make a small gift for their parents, especially in grade 1. Also, easter presents some terrific colouring exercises.

Head scarves are nice, but they aren't quite as open and free as the 1960s idea of freedom, something that has been pretty much adopted by the Western world. Also, how do the Muslim head scarf wearing teachers (sounds like a strict adherence to their religion) relate to teenage girls that come to school wearing black bras and lace see through shirts ... are they able to remain neutral or do they form "opinions" about the students sexual looseness? I mean, can someone be a strict religious Muslim and teach open Western culture and attitudes?

We have teachers here who are not expected to teach Christmas or Easter to their students, despite the fact that they dress the same as the rest of us. Atheists and Jehova's Witnesses have as much right here to be teachers, without being forced to teach Christian aspects in the public school setting.

And as for the free thinking of the 60's which you feel has been adopted.. how free are we if we can't choose to practise a religion of our choosing? Forcing others to fall in line with our way of dress and conform to white christian ideals was FAR from the thinking of the 60's.

While I can get what you're saying about a Muslim woman in a headscarf forming an opinion about in appropriately clad girls in the school, I fail to see how a woman with a headscarf would be any more disapproving or judgemental than a jehova's witness, or a devout baptist woman, who dress the norm. Religious zealots don't all dress differently from us. And just because a Muslim woman prefers to wear her headscarf, doesn't mean she will be judgemental, or a zealot in any way.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
Research is good, as is diversity. If I want my children to be taught by Muslim women in Muslim dress, I know where to live. If I want my children to be taught with Christian values and Christain traditions, I hope I can still count on Western Europe to retain this culture.

If you want your children taught Christian values and Christian traditions, you should have them in Christian school.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
I think things like values and traditions are best taught outside of school, specifically I think it's the responsibility of parents to teach this. The education system has enough curriculum to worry about. Besides which, traditions will be taught anyways through history classes; maybe not tailored to the ethnic, religious and other aspects from our backgrounds, but that's not the job of educators.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
I don't see what the big deal is. They aren't talking about indoctrinating children into Islam or anything and I didn't see anything where it said that the teachers' headscarves interfered with them doing their jobs.

Sorry to be repetitive, but it the head scarf wearing Muslim teacher prepared to teach Christian values, respect Christian traditions and other Christian/Western freedoms, or is the teacher going to instill her values on the children, like a typical role model may do. Are we transplanting Muslim ideologies into Western countries and their schools, or are we accepting that Muslims can set aside their ideologies and teach Western curricula and traditional Western values?