Why I'm backing Israel

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
The left and the Islamists portray me as a Zionist neocon, but it takes two sides to make a peace deal

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Lorna Fitzsimons[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Friday November 24, 2006[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The Guardian[/FONT]



Some said I should have my head examined after I agreed to become the chief executive of a pro-Israel advocacy group, the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre. But people said the same when I joined Labour in the mid-80s.

There is never a wrong time to do the right thing and if, like me, you are convinced of Israel's cause, then why not support Israel and why not now? I have always been a practical idealist, a non-Jew who has always believed in a two-state solution. But I have never been more concerned about the false reality many people are constructing around Israel and the Middle East, here and abroad. Our polling shows that opinion formers know that Israel is a fully functioning democracy, but care more about what Israel does than what Israel is.

Since its birth 58 years ago, Israel has always been prepared to compromise for peace. From Begin's agreement with Sadat in 1979 to the Arafat-Barak talks at Camp David in 2000, Israeli leaders have been prepared to challenge their own people in pursuit of peace. Last summer Israel withdrew from Gaza, angry settlers and all. Yet the terror from the Gaza Strip has continued - more than 1,000 rockets have been fired into southern Israel in the past year. Since 2000, nine fatalities have been caused by Qassam missiles.

Some media have reported the panic these missiles have caused but they downplay the impact because of the small scale of fatalities compared with those on the Palestinian side. My husband, a British soldier, is currently serving a tour of duty in Iraq. His unit has come under mortar fire nearly every night for the past six months. Not many service personnel have been killed by these missiles but every soldier fears that the next one might have his or her name on it. Do you think that a child, a parent or a grandmother in one of the towns bordering Gaza thinks there have been "only" nine fatalities? Can you imagine what that does to a civilian population?

We need to think carefully about the consequences of questioning the defensive reactions of a nation-state that is constantly bombarded by an enemy calling for its destruction, especially after it has withdrawn from Lebanon and Gaza. Would we as British citizens accept a single rocket on a British town, let alone hundreds?

The commentators' objection is that the response is "disproportionate". But how does a nation-state defend itself against a terrorist organisation or organisations that are part of, and deliberately hide behind, ordinary citizens? Of course the Israeli military and all military forces must act ethically. But if the number of civilian casualties continues to be the main issue, there is no incentive for the terrorists to stop using the civilian population as a shield.

We live in dangerous times when, in parts of the left especially, you can't be a friend to Islam or to Muslims unless you are anti-Israel. That is exactly what al-Qaida wants us to think. Events in Rochdale at the last election represent a microcosm of what we are sleepwalking into globally. The Islamists and the left argued that, because I supported Israel and its right to exist, all my work for my Muslim constituents was a lie. They suggested I was an opportunistic, neocon Zionist, aiming to dupe them.

Israel's willingness to compromise for peace has never been enough, because Israel alone cannot gain peace. The Palestinians and others in the region also have to want peace. Israel needs a serious interlocutor so that peace can stand a chance. So my question to the left is this: why not concentrate your attention there, rather than on the one player in the region who has always been serious about peace?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1955804,00.html
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Since its birth 58 years ago, Israel has always been prepared to compromise for peace. From Begin's agreement with Sadat in 1979 to the Arafat-Barak talks at Camp David in 2000, Israeli leaders have been prepared to challenge their own people in pursuit of peace. Last summer Israel withdrew from Gaza, angry settlers and all. Yet the terror from the Gaza Strip has continued - more than 1,000 rockets have been fired into southern Israel in the past year. Since 2000, nine fatalities have been caused by Qassam missiles.

Only a dyed in the wool zionist would write that. Israel has never been about compromise. Every war has been an exercise in land grabbing. Now they're building a wall so they can keep all the land they annexed. Their first prime minister, David Ben Gurion, made it clear that they wanted all of Palestine...now they have it. Compare those nine fatalities with all those thousands of Palestinians who were killed.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
So Juan

You don't want peace?
Not if a "neo con" achieves it. Then it wouldn't be real peace, it would be a sort of propoganda peace, a facade, to slyly sneek oil out of the country or develope churches inside Mosques.

But if it were achieved by a liberal, then that would be a monumentous peace worthy of a Noble prize and the undying love of all.
 
Last edited:

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Juan

And your response sir - to a moderately rational question was an "atypical moderator reply".

Obviously it is your choice to see the fighting continue until Israel is removed from that region. One can only hope they are relocated to Vancouver Island to live in peace.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Perhaps a better question would be,,,

How would you go about forming some sort of peace in this conflict Juan?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Bull
I was arguing issues. Israel has annexed all of Palestine, they have killed thousands of Palestinians. They have killed thousands of Lebanese. There no danger that the Israelis, who have the third or fourth strongest military in the world, are going to be chased out by a few primiative rockets. I repeat, I was arguing issues, not interjecting sarcastic, four word, drivel that adds nothing to the debate.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Bull
I was arguing issues. Israel has annexed all of Palestine, they have killed thousands of Palestinians. They have killed thousands of Lebanese. There no danger that the Israelis, who have the third or fourth strongest military in the world, are going to be chased out by a few primiative rockets. I repeat, I was arguing issues, not interjecting sarcastic, four word, drivel that adds nothing to the debate.
But your continuous contempt of everything on the "right" side of the fence, somehow does?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
But your continuous contempt of everything on the "right" side of the fence, somehow does?

Never mind the personal jibes. Let's hear an argument of some sort.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Never mind the personal jibes. Let's hear an argument of some sort.
Ok, how about the left stop dismissing everything from the right as hogwash, for starters. Send in the...hey I asked you this question.

Like you've actually posted an arguement here, lol, it is to laugh.

You know my arguement, as soon as the terrorist groups stop there continuous acts of violence agians the state of Israel, Israel, will submit to some form of peace.

Continuously attacking Israel or its supporters as neo con zionists, or referring to Harper as a US puppet, is hardly productive, nor empty of its own "jibes".

At least I call all spades, spades. I don't just sit in one corner pointing my finger in one direction, no matter what the ramifications.

Try some objectivity, it tastes good and does the mind a benefit.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Lorna Fitzsimons wrote; said:
They suggested I was an opportunistic, neocon Zionist, aiming to dupe them.

#juan concurs;

#juan said:
Only a dyed in the wool zionist would write that.

And then;

#juan said:
Israel has never been about compromise. Every war has been an exercise in land grabbing.

You've must have missed history #juan

Lorna Fitzsimons wrote; said:
From Begin's agreement with Sadat in 1979 to the Arafat-Barak talks at Camp David in 2000, Israeli leaders have been prepared to challenge their own people in pursuit of peace.

#juan said:
Now they're building a wall so they can keep all the land they annexed. Their first prime minister, David Ben Gurion, made it clear that they wanted all of Palestine...now they have it.

She got you there also #juan;

Lorna Fitzsimons wrote; said:
But I have never been more concerned about the false reality many people are constructing around Israel and the Middle East, here and abroad.


#juan said:
Compare those nine fatalities with all those thousands of Palestinians who were killed.

yeah but;

Lorna Fitzsimons wrote; said:
The commentators' objection is that the response is "disproportionate". But how does a nation-state defend itself against a terrorist organisation or organisations that are part of, and deliberately hide behind, ordinary citizens?

You're written proof of what the author states. You don't address issues as you claim, you simply provide an antithesis to divert attention. Try again.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
I don't back anyone in this mess, and seriously how can we? It's alot like those playground tiffs, he started it, no he did. Shut up allready. Both sides have their backers, giving them the tools they need to continue fighting this battle forever. I'm not going to support the popular kid or the kid from the wrong side of the tracks, they're both idiots as far as I'm concerned.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Bear you said
Send in the...

You called? I couldn't find anyone else on a Sunday...but here I is...
 
Last edited:

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
9
38
The left and the Islamists portray me as a Zionist neocon, but it takes two sides to make a peace deal

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Lorna Fitzsimons[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Friday November 24, 2006[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The Guardian[/FONT]




http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1955804,00.html



ITN, there was also peoples who found reason to back the NAZI during ww2, especially in the USA, so...

And by the way, your quote is quite funny, coming from a guy who believe story like this war on terror.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
ITN, there was also peoples who found reason to back the NAZI during ww2, especially in the USA, so...

And by the way, your quote is quite funny, coming from a guy who believe story like this war on terror.

Comparing Israelis to Nazi's again I see... and implying that ITN would have been one of the Nazi supporters?
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Logic you view the Palestinian versus Israels crisis with bias and hatred, if anyone is a Nazi it is you Logic. The hatred and propaganda you direct at Israel is frightening similar to the bile-rage filled propaganda that is thought to Palestinian children in Hate School 101.