51% of Scottish people want independence from the UK

I think not

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In the run up to next year’s elections to the Scottish Parliament the Scotsman newspaper has begun commissioning regular monthly polls from ICM. These will be the first regular Scottish polls since the System Three polls for the Herald petered out in 2003. 51% of respondents told ICM they would favour Scottish independence, with 39% opposed. This is the first time that in 8 years that ICM have recorded a majority in favour of independence.

The full figures for voting intention in the Scottish Parliament are not in the online story, only the seat projections based upon them (I’ll update with the full figures once ICM publish them, or if someone pulls them out of the print copy for me). The Scotsman’s seat projections are for Labour to win 41 seats (down 9) on 30% of the constituency vote and 28% of the list vote, the SNP 37 seats (up 10) on 32% of the constituency vote and 28% of the list vote, the Liberal Democrats 25 seats (up 8 ), Conservatives 17 seats (down 1), the Greens on 5 seats and “others” 4. The SSP is on 4% in both votes and Tommy Sheridan’s Solidarity party is on 1%.

UPDATE: The full voting intention figures are as follows. In the constituency vote CON 14%, LAB 30%, LDEM 15%, SNP 32%, Green 3%, SSP 4%, Solidarity 1%, others 2%. In the regional vote the figures are CON 14%, LAB 28%, LDEM 17%, SNP 28%, Green 6%, SSP 4%, Solidarity 1%.

http://www.ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/895
 
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Daz_Hockey

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Good, I hope they bugger off...although, to be honest, it's academic because almost every country (or state) in europe belongs to the fastest growing superpower in the world anyway....the EU, this is a fact, it's GDP is now larger than the US, growing, it's world sphere of influence is higher and it will be the next super, like it or not.

So this is all irrelivant, but if they wanna play that game, take their prime minister, chancellor and all the other scots out of our parliment then, I hate it when they try to play the victims, when historically they were nothing of the sort.
 

Daz_Hockey

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Vicious times my man, vicious times.

fact is, they wern't pacifists now were they?. I think a decent Roman general might easily be able to answer that one. But what I would like to know is this:

"How exactly do they plan to live?" - Taxes?..nope, they all pretty much come from westminister...Do they actually have an industry?...Nope.
English council taxes are going through the roof because of 2 things:

1. Free old people bus passes (do laugh, but it's the truth)
2. Free Scottish higher education (when English people now have to pay $6k equiv each year)

I don't think it's fair at all actually, they are the ruling ones. they vote on our elections, but we can't vote on theirs....bit of a joke having a poll really then, considering they already rule the union.
 

Colpy

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Of course, this is exactly what happens when you recognize an entity within your country as a "nation".

The Liberal Party of Canada is full of idiots.
 

Blackleaf

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Good riddance, I say. The Socialist Scots are just subsidy-junkies, living off the subsidies given to them by the English taxpayer.

Let's see if Scotland can survive on its without England's money. England will also be richer because we won't have to keep handing over to the Scots to enable them to not work and just get drunk violent all day long.

Subsidy Central (commonly known as Socialist Scotland) manages to get free medicine and drugs, whereas the English have to pay for theirs, and all other manner of freebies that the English have to pay for.

Scotland should become independent, then it'll die. The only worthwile things that it exports are whisky and oil.
 
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Blackleaf

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anyway....the EU, this is a fact, it's GDP is now larger than the US, growing, it's world sphere of influence is higher and it will be the next super, like it or not.

The EU's economy is hardly growing whatsoever. It's economy is sick. Britain (or, just England) should get right now.
 

Blackleaf

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More English than Scots want an independent Scotland.

Scots are more pro-British than the English are.

The English are more in favour than the Scots themselves of an independent Scotland.

An ICM poll for the Daily Telegraph found that 59% of the English want Scotland to become independent from the rest of Britain, whereas only 52% of Scots want an independent Scotland.


35% of Scots in this poll say that Scotland should remain part of Britain, but only 28% of the English want Scotland to remain part of Britain.


13% of Scots aren't sure and so are 13% of the English.


The poll also shows the Scots as being quite selfish. Whereas 52% of the Scots say they want Scotland to be independent of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, only 45% of them say they want England to be independent of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

70% of the English say they support the Scottish football team when they are playing a foreign team, but only 48% of the Scots they support England when they are playing a foreign team.

But this week, Prime Minister Tony Blair (a Scotsman) and Chancellor Gordon Brown (soon-to-be-PM and another Scotsman) have been warning their fellow Scots that an independent Scotland would be harmful for Scotland's economy. They said that the fastest-growing sector of the Scottish economy is financial services and England is by far Scotland's biggest market - with 80% of it.

Brown also told the Scots that Scotland and England are so inextricably linked after having been joined together for the last 300 years that around half of Scots have family in England.

Remember, though, that these poll results are from ICM. Other recent polls have shown that only a minority of Scots want independence from the UK.

And the chances that Scotland and England are ever going to break apart in the forseeable future are still very slim.

Despite all these findings, only 16% of the English and just 26% of the Scots do NOT consider themselves to be British. These people consider themselves just English or just Scottish, but a vast majority of people in both countries still consider themselves as British.

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Britain wants UK break up, poll shows


By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite, Sunday Telegraph

Last Updated: 10:16am GMT 26/11/2006





The United Kingdom should be broken up and Scotland and England set free as independent nations, according to a huge number of voters on both sides of the border.


A clear majority of people in both England and Scotland are in favour of full independence for Scotland, an ICM opinion poll for The Sunday Telegraph has found.

Independence is backed by 52 per cent of Scots while an astonishing 59 per cent of English voters want Scotland to go it alone.

There is also further evidence of rising English nationalism with support for the establishment of an English parliament hitting an historic high of 68 per cent amongst English voters. Almost half – 48 per cent – also want complete independence for England, divorcing itself from Wales and Northern Ireland as well. Scottish voters also back an English breakaway with 58 per cent supporting an English parliament with similar powers to the Scottish one.

The poll comes only months before the 300th anniversary of the Act of Union between England and Scotland and will worry all three main political parties. None of them favours Scottish independence, but all have begun internal debates on the future of the constitution.

The dramatic findings came as Gordon Brown, the favourite to succeed Tony Blair as Prime Minister, delivered an impassioned defence of the Union at Labour's Scottish conference in Oban yesterday.

In an attack on the Scottish National Party, against whom Labour will fight a bitter battle for control of the Edinburgh-based parliament next May, the Chancellor claimed: "We should never let the Nationalists deceive people into believing that you can break up the United Kingdom."

The ICM poll told a very different story, however, with 60 per cent of English voters complaining that higher levels of public spending per head of the population in Scotland were "unjustified", compared to 28 per cent claiming they were justified. Even among Scots, 36 per cent said the system was unfair, with only 51 per cent supporting it.

Voters also had serious concerns about the so-called West Lothian Question, the ability of Scottish MPs at Westminster to vote on solely English matters while many purely Scottish issues are decided in Edinburgh. Sixty-two per cent of English voters want Scottish MPs stripped of this right and even 46 per cent of Scots agreed. The poll showed that the English are more likely to think of themselves as British than the Scots are. Only 16 per cent of English people said they were "English, not British", compared to 26 per cent of Scots who said they were "Scottish, not British."

In the sporting arena, 70 per cent of English people said they would support a Scottish team playing football or rugby against a nation other than England. But, when the question was put to Scots, only 48 per cent said they would back England with 34 per cent supporting their opponents, no matter which country it was.

There was good news for David Cameron, the Conservative leader, when voters in England were asked who they would back in a general election held tomorrow. The Tories were on 37 per cent, with 31 per cent backing Labour and 23 per cent supporting the Liberal Democrats.

Tory leaderDavid Cameron (of Scottish descent): 'The union is good for us all'

Mr Brown said: "There is a debate to be had about the future of the United Kingdom. But I think when you look at the arguments — at the family ties, the economic connections, the shared values, the history of our relationship which has lasted 300 years — people will decide we are stronger together and weaker apart."

Mr Cameron said: "The union between England, Scotland and Wales is good for us all and we are stronger together than we are apart. The last thing we need is yet another parliament with separate elections and more politicians spending more money."

Sir Menzies Campbell, the Lib Dem leader, called for a "calm rational debate" on the role of MPs from Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales at Westminster. "The last thing we need is knee-jerk opportunistic political responses."

Alex Salmond, the SNP leader, said: "In England, people quite rightly resent Scottish Labour MPs bossing them about on English domestic legislation. England has as much right to self government as Scotland does."


telegraph.co.uk
 
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Blackleaf

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And who can blame those 59% of the English who want Scotland out of Britain? Britain has a Government controlled mainly by Scots - Prime Minister Blair, Chancellor Brown, Home Secretary Reid, Transport Minister Alexander, Defence Secretary Browne, Leader of the Liberal Democrats Menzies Campbell are all Scots- who make sure that they give Scotland loads of benefits and freebies whilst denying them to the English, Welsh and Northern Irish.


Here's another example of British Scottish-controlled Government in action -



Scots won't have to pay £10-a-day road tolls

By JONATHAN OLIVER, Mail on Sunday

25th November 2006


Scottish cities will be exempt from new congestion charge laws, which led to the MP of Thurrock, Essex wanting to get revenge on Scotland. He's hoping to introduce the "Road Pricing (Entry into England from Scotland) Bill" which will charge people from Scotland to cross the border into England.



Motorists in England are facing punitive congestion charges of up to £10 a day but north of the border it's a different story.

Scotland will be exempt from Labour's new laws to be introduced in cities throughout England, a move which has infuriated English MPs.

One Labour backbencher is even planning his own law to impose a £1.50 charge on Scots who cross the border into England. The Government Bill backed by (SCOTTISH) Transport Minister Douglas Alexander - who is also Secretary of State for Scotland - is to be published in the New Year.

It will lead to a string of schemes modelled on London's £8 congestion charge but in cities where public transport is far less well developed.

The move comes amid growing debate about the so-called West Lothian Question, the (undemocratic) constitutional quirk which means Scottish MPs can vote on English laws while the English have only a limited say on what happens north of the border.

Veteran backbencher Andrew MacKinlay said that he was fed up with Scottish Ministers imposing levies on Middle England which their own constituents in Scotland did not pay.

The MP for Thurrock, Essex, said he was serious about introducing his Road Pricing (Entry into England from Scotland) Bill.

Mr MacKinlay said: 'I am not anti-Scot. I did not deliberately set out to highlight the contradictions of the West Lothian Question. But a Bill like this is the only way I can hit back on behalf of my constituents.'

The Conservatives said they would not support Mr MacKinlay but, with an increase on the M25 Dartford crossing, they were suspicious of 'stealth charging'.

Tory Transport spokesman Chris Grayling said: 'If Labour is planning wider tolls, then it should be upfront about it.'

A spokesman for Mr Alexander said: 'The UK Government was elected by the people of the UK to govern the UK. That is what Ministers are doing and will continue to do.'

READERS' COMMENTS

Why should Scotland be exempt, the laws should be for the whole of the land.

- John, Clacton, England
-----------------------------------------------------

There should be a referendum in Scotland and Wales whether or not they want full independence.
If accepted all future Mps may only stand for seats in their country of origin.

This will stop Welsh and Scottish Mps from voting on purely English matters or English and Scottish MPs voting on purely Welsh matters.

Tony Blair would then have to find a seat over the border.

- John, Switzerland
----------------------------------------------
Hey! Come on! This is going too far! The Labour Party is buying votes for the next election! We English have to get rid of the Scottish junta who are exploiting us.

- Jacky Macguire, Ipswich, Suffolk
-----------------------------------------------

Yet again we have the Caledonian McCabinet, whom we cannot remove by the ballot-box, telling we English which laws we must live under and how much in taxes we must pay, yet these laws do not affect their constituents over the border.
This government perverses democracy more and more by the day. Why aren't we protesting on the streets?
Oh, yes - we can't because the McCabinet has banned any protests which may embarrass them and show them up for the hypocrites they are.
Furthermore, having demanded an English Parliament, we were told by Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs and Lord Chancellor,
The Rt Hon Lord Falconer of Thoroton QC, that it will not happen. Guess what - he's a Scot!

- L, Richmond, Surrey
---------------------------------------------

A spokesman for Mr Alexander said: 'The UK Government was elected by the people of the UK to govern the UK. That is what Ministers are doing and will continue to do.'

Err, So why are you only taxing the English Mr Alexander?

- Norm, Newcastle, UK

------------------------------------

dailymail.co.uk

Scotland rules England, basically.
 
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selfactivated

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OK Im a bit confussed. I heard Blair speak on the matter of Scottland a few weeks ago. He said it wouldnt be in Scottlands favor to exit the UK(?) That if Scottland voted on Scottlands issues and then they had representation in the UK parlement and voterd on the larger issues that effected the UK THEN in effect Scottland WAS its own country within the UK. (I think I got the gist).

So Im assuming its like the states where each state takes care of their own and you have "senators, repesentatives" that make UK laws. Is that correct?
 

Daz_Hockey

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OK Im a bit confussed. I heard Blair speak on the matter of Scottland a few weeks ago. He said it wouldnt be in Scottlands favor to exit the UK(?) That if Scottland voted on Scottlands issues and then they had representation in the UK parlement and voterd on the larger issues that effected the UK THEN in effect Scottland WAS its own country within the UK. (I think I got the gist).

So Im assuming its like the states where each state takes care of their own and you have "senators, repesentatives" that make UK laws. Is that correct?

Blair's a scot, what do you expect...........they can take him and brown, cameron too
 

Daz_Hockey

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Welllll see I didnt know that lol But dont it sound like the smart way to make everyone happy?


Nope, we have a very strange situation here, in that Scotland is funded pretty much by English money, foreignerss like to bring up the subject of scottish independence like England are their tyranical rulers, when in fact, there isnt a single englishman or woman in the Scottish parliment....all the leaders of the English parliment are Scots though....

So, I ask, who REALLY being ruled over?
 

Blackleaf

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OK Im a bit confussed. I heard Blair speak on the matter of Scottland a few weeks ago. He said it wouldnt be in Scottlands favor to exit the UK(?) That if Scottland voted on Scottlands issues and then they had representation in the UK parlement and voterd on the larger issues that effected the UK THEN in effect Scottland WAS its own country within the UK. (I think I got the gist).

So Im assuming its like the states where each state takes care of their own and you have "senators, repesentatives" that make UK laws. Is that correct?

It's not like in the US because the US is a federal country but Britain isn't.

Each state in the US has its own parliament and governor, whereas in Britain only Scotland has its own Parliament. Wales and NI only have Assembly and England, unfairly, has nothing whatsoever. There is no English Parliament or Assembly.
 
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