Deconstructing the veil.

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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British Muslims
Deconstructing the veil

Oct 12th 2006
From The Economist print edition
Why Britain is so het up about Muslim women covering their faces



British author Salman Rushdie said this week that "veils suck."



BOOK burnings are rare in Britain. Before 1989, when copies of Salman Rushdie's novel “The Satanic Verses” were incinerated in two cities, anyone searching for a really good literary bonfire had to look back to the religious upheavals of the 17th century. The Rushdie affair became a defining issue for a generation of British Muslims, and the argument over whether free speech is worth the occasional blasphemy has been smoking ever since.

This week Mr Rushdie, whose provocative prose earned him a fatwa and years of police protection, intervened in another row about Islam—over whether Muslim women who wear veils that cover everything but their eyes should take them off in public. His judgment? Veils “suck”.

The row over veils has aroused massive public interest and is starting to resemble the anguished debate that took place in France over the ban on headscarves in schools. It began when Jack Straw, leader of the House of Commons, revealed on October 5th that he asked veiled women who came to see him at his constituency in Blackburn to show their faces.

Mr Straw said that he opposed passing laws on what to wear, but that veils make talking harder and emphasise separateness, and are therefore bad for community relations. He was backed this week by Gordon Brown, the chancellor of the exchequer, who added that immigrants should learn English and familiarise themselves with the Magna Carta.

Compared with previous clashes between the government and Muslims, the response to Mr Straw's plea for visible noses and mouths has been muted. The Muslim Council of Britain said Mr Straw was playing into the hands of people who hated Islam. A few hotheads tried to blame him for an attack on a woman wearing a veil. But there were no banners, marches or burnings.

Relatively few women wear veils. Informed guessers reckon that between 10,000 (the more likely estimate) and 40,000 of Britain's 800,000 Muslim women wear one. That number seems to be increasing, though. An influx of people from Yemen and parts of the Gulf where wearing a veil is the norm is one reason. But the practice is spreading beyond this group, to the 75% of British Muslims who are from Asian families. Many of those now covering up are the British-born children of immigrants, whose mothers do not wear veils themselves.

Two main reasons are commonly given for why more young Muslim women are covering up. First, it is a political statement, an in-your-face version of a “Free Palestine” T-shirt. Ghayasuddin Siddiqui of the Muslim Parliament points out that headscarf wearing blossomed among Muslim women in Britain after the Iranian revolution in 1979, and thinks something similar is happening now.

Second, Muslim women supposedly put on veils for reasons that blend feminism with religion. Though they are often pressed by their own families not to cover up, some choose to wear a veil out of at the amount of flesh on display on television or on the high street, because they dislike being ogled by men, and because a veil makes them feel safer.

“Personality dictates whether women wear a veil or not,” says Salma Yaqoob, a councillor in Birmingham who campaigned against the war in Iraq. Ms Yaqoob cites her own family as an example: she does not wear a veil, her sister wore one for a while but has now taken it off, and her mother wears one whenever she feels like it. Wearing the veil is, she says, a private matter.

Yet whatever the precise reasons for Muslim women covering up, the row has unveiled tensions within Britain. The main worry is about whether a formerly easygoing approach towards integrating ethnic communities is still working.

According to a Populus poll published in the Times this week, 69% of Britons think that Muslims make a valuable contribution to society—up ten points since the summer. But this broad approval is fragile: 60% told the same pollsters then that Muslims are viewed with suspicion by other Brits. The veil hardly helps to dispel such feelings, which is why some Muslims share Mr Straw's concerns. It is also a symbol of a separateness that no longer seems acceptable after London was attacked by home-grown suicide bombers last year.

economist.com
 

Chukcha

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Sep 19, 2006
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and her mother wears one whenever she feels like it. Wearing the veil is, she says, a private matter.
Oh!! now I understand about her feelings for wearing that veil on the international passport photos.

What a stupidity. Seriously, our politicians are really idiotic minded. How could they even take it seriously into account when these pricks protested against taking off the veil when being photographed on the passport photos. Seriously, it's getting a bit too ridiculous. Can't wait for this nonesense to end already.
 

tracy

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Oh!! now I understand about her feelings for wearing that veil on the international passport photos.

What a stupidity. Seriously, our politicians are really idiotic minded. How could they even take it seriously into account when these pricks protested against taking off the veil when being photographed on the passport photos. Seriously, it's getting a bit too ridiculous. Can't wait for this nonesense to end already.

I don't see where she suggested that women shouldn't have to unveil for passport photos. Did I miss something?

I don't care if a woman wants to wear a veil in general as long as she takes it off when necessary (like passport pictures).
 

earth_as_one

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Jan 5, 2006
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A fundamental freedom is the right to choose. The only exception is where reason where public safety/security outweighs that freedom.

Reasonable compromise which satisfies both modesty/religious/cultural concerns and public safety:

A woman can choose that only another woman is allowed to see her passport photo or see her face, but she doesn't get to control whether a border guard sees her face or not. But she should be allowed to insist that only a woman see her face during that process.

Even the most severe modesty codes allow a women to expose herself from her wrist to fingertips. Women should be allowed to id themselves by fingerprint.
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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I don't see where she suggested that women shouldn't have to unveil for passport photos. Did I miss something?

I don't care if a woman wants to wear a veil in general as long as she takes it off when necessary (like passport pictures).

Earlier there were court cases and protests about women having to show their faces for ID photos (I think it was actually a drivers lisence though)
 

Dalreg

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Sep 29, 2006
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Saskatchewan eh!
A fundamental freedom is the right to choose. The only exception is where reason where public safety/security outweighs that freedom.

Reasonable compromise which satisfies both modesty/religious/cultural concerns and public safety:

A woman can choose that only another woman is allowed to see her passport photo or see her face, but she doesn't get to control whether a border guard sees her face or not. But she should be allowed to insist that only a woman see her face during that process.

Even the most severe modesty codes allow a women to expose herself from her wrist to fingertips. Women should be allowed to id themselves by fingerprint.

Load of BS! I just got a new passport recently and had to get my photo redone because I had my glasses on! The passport off ice claimed the photo would not be usable for photo ID. I say if you are unwilling to show your face fine. Just don't expect to get a passport or drivers license. Or any photo ID.
 

missile

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Dec 1, 2004
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Two comments: 1. Salmon is ugly enough that he should be encouraged to wear the veil. 2. I wouldn't want a moslem swimsuit calendar ,so don't send me one for christmas:)
 

Chukcha

Electoral Member
Sep 19, 2006
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I don't see where she suggested that women shouldn't have to unveil for passport photos. Did I miss something?

I don't care if a woman wants to wear a veil in general as long as she takes it off when necessary (like passport pictures).
Not in this post, off course:) I heard it on the news sometime ago, in England I think, the muslims protested to take off the veil because it goes beyond their faith, and here we see them saying how tolerant they that they wear it anytime they like, doesn't really make sense does it?
 

northstar

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Oct 9, 2006
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that's right, not knowing who is under the veil is how a terrorist tried to escape from police in England...

From an acquaintance of mine, who is a Muslim it can be a statement about not wanting to be contaminated by our western society.

It can also be necessary to aid the husbands in suppressing their harlem, or wifes. The burkas can concel the bruises, since after all this is a religion that promotes wife abuse...
 

Chukcha

Electoral Member
Sep 19, 2006
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by the way, the burques or veils, whatever... were originally found to be protecting a person from a strong sun in the desert, not because Allah said so.
Once I was in London and was struck by seing so many of them, but what was most surprising is that those women cover their faces but they wear a HELL of a lot PERFUME, it's just a killing smell, you wouldn't pass near her without blocking your nose and they wear tight jeans and highheals, but the face is covered, morons.
 

northstar

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Oct 9, 2006
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Yet another example of not wishing to be contaminated, with the heavy perfume they don't inhale the breathe of non-pious Muslims' and those of other religious belief.
 

tracy

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Not in this post, off course:) I heard it on the news sometime ago, in England I think, the muslims protested to take off the veil because it goes beyond their faith, and here we see them saying how tolerant they that they wear it anytime they like, doesn't really make sense does it?

Maybe because muslims are just like us... they don't all think alike. It makes perfect sense once you recognize that.
 

northstar

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Oct 9, 2006
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Correct, this has gone as far as several Muslim women refusing to show their face for passport photos. They have tried to have them taken with veils on. So the entire defence about modesty is obviously not why it is done. This is contempt and lack of support to protecting the security of our countries. And this is why it is important that this become manditory or else deportation immediately.
 

northstar

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Oct 9, 2006
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The Muslims' are not like me, the difference is that they believe in a religion that represses women, supports violence, has historically and still justifies peophilia, as well as genitle mutilation. So those that follow this religion are NOT like the mainstream Western Religions, that is FACT.
 

tracy

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The Muslims' are not like me, the difference is that they believe in a religion that represses women, supports violence, has historically and still justifies peophilia, as well as genitle mutilation. So those that follow this religion are NOT like the mainstream Western Religions, that is FACT.

right, because you are the ultimate authority on what it means to be a muslim... All those muslims who live here and don't repress women, support violence or molest children are bad muslims...
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
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I have noticed that when people start getting personal, and have utterly no facts to back up their claims, they are recognizing the truth, that they are wrong.

If you READ what l said l was speaking of myself, and thenl was referring to statistical facts that support what l am saying.

Where would you like me to start...

assuming you are actually going to back up your own claims that they are just like everyone else. This religion , note we are not discussing race, happens to be very different and very defined.

So put your facts where your mouth is...