can we know anything about wars?

hermanntrude

hermanntrude

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Jun 23, 2006
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I am starting to think it is impossible for us (the people) to know anything for sure about anyof the wars we pay for.

We all know from past experience that during wars, propaganda, more so than usual, is rife, and often hard to believe in hindsight. SO how are we to know anything about what really happened in Iraq, Afganistan, Vietnam, etc etc etc, even the Falklands conflict has some unresolved issues.

So how can we possibly know what to think about it? and how can any one of us make an objective, useful statement in any one of the multiple threads on some of the above mentioned wars in CanCon?
 
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tamarin

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Jun 12, 2006
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Just read from a variety of sources. If you're an intelligent person your opinion will be just as good as any other. Including that held by key government officials.
Afghanistan is a lost cause. Any Canadian official that thinks otherwise is out to lunch. A long one. The young Canadian lives being lost there now are outrageous. AFGH is a country steeped in tribal tradition and as backward as rock. People convinced we're there on some noble mission of democratization should be beaten with a stick. It's all so stupid.
Hey, I have not the least doubt I'm right on this one. And I'm certainly not going to defer to any elected rep on what he's told to think.
 
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annabattler

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Jun 3, 2005
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We can read all we want,watch every television documentary,follow political debates....and we still won't have the FULL picture. Reporters trying to gain "access to information"documents find themselves frustrated by the amount of censorship imposed.
Often,our views are formed by what the media gives us, and every media outlet has its' own "slant" on current stories.
It's a sad fact,given this age of mass media and instant communication,that we are not better,and more accurately,informed.
 
hermanntrude

hermanntrude

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I think world leaders, what with their spies and other intelligence, have a better chance of getting accurate info than us, because what they get and what we get, be sure of it, is very different. I wouldn't be surprised if the "leaks" in intelligence and so on are red herrings deliberately laid for people like us to debate about while they do something sneaky elsehwere
 
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tamarin

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Jun 12, 2006
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I'm convinced the man on the street is as well informed as any other. Even top government officials will have their news filtered through the network of informants, agencies and deputy ministers et al in charge of any portfolio. If you're reading a variety of newspapers and their columnists, you're looking at rich information mines and in the case of columnists getting the seasoned view of folk who have followed stories and regions more intensively and longer than government wonks.
The word is already out on Afghanistan and it hasn't changed much since initial reports. Why the hell are we there?
 
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Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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Who's word is that Tamarin?

The man on the street is as well informed as any other man on the street. Notice how the Man on the street never got a memo entitled "Bin Laden determined to attack inside US".

You may know news reports about afghanistan and determine "we shouldn't be there" , but do you even know whats at stake?

If by some random chance there was an old soviet nuclear bomb in Taliban control, but they were cut off and hidden in a cave, missing one critical piece..

would YOU ever know? of course not. If you did it may change your views though.

I mean, lets face it, the average man on the street has never even met an afghan citizen, let alone been to afghanistan.

News media is corporate owned, corporations have their own agenda and billions of dollars behind it doing well. If the man on the street were ever given the full story then the world must be on the verge of collapse.
 
EastSideScotian

EastSideScotian

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Jun 9, 2006
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Zzarchov said:
Who's word is that Tamarin?

The man on the street is as well informed as any other man on the street. Notice how the Man on the street never got a memo entitled "Bin Laden determined to attack inside US".

You may know news reports about afghanistan and determine "we shouldn't be there" , but do you even know whats at stake?

If by some random chance there was an old soviet nuclear bomb in Taliban control, but they were cut off and hidden in a cave, missing one critical piece..

would YOU ever know? of course not. If you did it may change your views though.

I mean, lets face it, the average man on the street has never even met an afghan citizen, let alone been to afghanistan.

News media is corporate owned, corporations have their own agenda and billions of dollars behind it doing well. If the man on the street were ever given the full story then the world must be on the verge of collapse.
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agreed

Your bang on, no one really can grasp whats at stake, we only know what we are being told, Thruth is, their is alot more we dont know, so whichever side of the fence you are on, your alwyas going tohave thing you wont know or have control over.
 
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tamarin

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It's been known for at least twenty years that terrorism would be the major threat of the 21st century. That's been well documented in a plethora of sources. When I say man on the street I mean a literate man, who actually works at staying informed. It's not hard to do. I can't think of anything Washington or Ottawa would know- of real importance - that the well read citizen hasn't already heard about.
Any citizen versed in Afghanistan knows how difficult and backward the place is and how foolish it is to think you'll drag it without one helluva fight into the modern world.
 
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Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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Terrorism isn't anymore dangerous now than it was 100 years ago for the most part. There is the potential for it to be more harmful, but even if a nuke went off, by and large, the damage would be minimal and just a small hiccup in the world, cold and heartless as it sounds.

Im sorry, but what exactly is it you can do to stay informed?

Read the Papers? Now you know what someone wants you to know, listen to the government? now you know another persons story they want you to hear.

Listen to multiple sources? Doesn't mean any of them are right. Want a good example?

The old (mis)truth is listen to both sides stories the truth is somewhere in the middle.

In Operation Barbarossa the Soviets reported a small garrison successfully stalled a german attack 20 times their size. The Germans responded claiming A small mechanized column crashed through thousands of Soviet conscripts, most of whom surrendered.

So is the real story in the middle?

Nope, The truth is the Soviets made up the battle at a fictional town for propaganda, the germans decided it was more believable to create their own story about how it went. But the battle itself never happened.

And No amount of being informed from second hand reports would ever have given you a shred of the truth.

Step one of being "informed" is realising that you probably aren't.
 
hermanntrude

hermanntrude

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and in my book the penultimate step is to realise you probably never will be because there are a lot of powerful people who have a vested interest in making sure you aren't.
 
Vereya

Vereya

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Apr 20, 2006
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maepaulino said:
We will never have the full picture as one of the posters said because as we all know, the one who wins the war writes the history...
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Absolutely true! Everyone believes what the strong guy wants them to believe.
And I do not quite agree that government officials get filtered information. Probably the minor ones do. however, it is always one or two people who make the decisions, and they get their information complete, accurate and on time. And they are the guys who decide what information to give to the man in the street. And as we live in a time, when accurate and timely information is priceless and can be the most powerful of weapons, they are not too eager to share it.
 
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