American Troops are Murderous Animals

United_Nations

New Member
Sep 12, 2006
38
0
6
read the full article:


09/16/06 "The Independent" -- -- In the week that George Bush took to fantasising that his blood-soaked "war on terror" would lead the 21st century into a "shining age of human liberty" I went through my mail bag to find a frightening letter addressed to me by an American veteran whose son is serving as a lieutenant colonel and medical doctor with US forces in Baghdad. Put simply, my American friend believes the change of military creed under the Bush administration--from that of "soldier" to that of "warrior"--is encouraging American troops to commit atrocities.




From Abu Ghraib to Guantanamo to Bagram, to the battlefields of Iraq and to the "black" prisons of the CIA, humiliation and beatings, rape, anal rape and murder have now become so commonplace that each new outrage is creeping into the inside pages of our newspapers. My reporting notebooks are full of Afghan and Iraqi complaints of torture and beatings from August 2002, and then from 2003 to the present point. How, I keep asking myself, did this happen? Obviously, the trail leads to the top. But where did this cult of cruelty begin?





So first, here's the official US Army "Soldier's Creed", originally drawn up to prevent anymore Vietnam atrocities:

"I am an American soldier.

I am a member of the United States Army--a protector of the greatest nation on earth. Because I am proud of the uniform I wear, I will always act in ways creditable to the military service and the nation that it is sworn to guard ...

No matter what situation I am in, I will never do anything for pleasure, profit or personal safety, which will disgrace my uniform, my unit or my country.




I will use every means I have, even beyond the line of duty, to restrain my Army comrades from actions, disgraceful to themselves and the uniform.

I am proud of my country and it's flag.



I will try to make the people of this nation proud of the service I represent for I am an American soldier."

Now here's the new version of what is called the "Warrior Ethos":

I am an American soldier.

I am a warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the Unites States and live the Army values.

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.




I am an expert and I am a professional. I stand ready to deploy, engage and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat. I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American soldier.




Like most Europeans--and an awful lot of Americans--I was quite unaware of this ferocious "code" for US armed forces, although it's not hard to see how it fits in with Bush's rantings. I'm tempted to point this out in detail, but my American veteran did so with such eloquence in his letter to me that the response should come in his words: "The Warrior Creed," he wrote, "allows no end to any conflict accept total destruction of the 'enemy'. It allows no defeat ... and does not allow one ever to stop fighting (lending itself to the idea of the 'long war'). It says nothing about following orders, it says nothing about obeying laws or showing restraint. It says nothing about dishonourable actions ...".

Each day now, I come across new examples of American military cruelty in Iraq and Afgha-nistan. Here, for example, is Army Specialist Tony Lagouranis, part of an American mobile interrogation team working with US marines, interviewed by Amy Goodman on the American Democracy Now! programme describing a 2004 operation in Babel, outside Baghdad: "Every time Force Recon went on a raid, they would bring back prisoners who were bruised, with broken bones, sometimes with burns. They were pretty brutal to these guys. And I would ask the prisoners what happened, how they received these wounds. And they would tell me that it was after their capture, while they were subdued, while they were handcuffed and they were being questioned by the Force Recon Marines ... One guy was forced to sit on an exhaust pipe of a Humvee ... he had a giant blister, third-degree burns on the back of his leg."

Lagouranis, whose story is powerfully recalled in Goodman's new book, Static, reported this brutality to a Marine major and a colonel-lawyer from the US Judge Advocate General's Office. "But they just wouldn't listen, you know? They wanted numbers. They wanted numbers of terrorists apprehended ... so they could brief that to the general."
The stories of barbarity grow by the week, sometimes by the day.






In Canada, an American military deserter appealed for refugee status and a serving comrade gave evidence that when US forces saw babies lying in the road in Fallujah--outrageously, it appears, insurgents sometimes placed them there to force the Americans to halt and face ambush--they were under orders to drive over the children without stopping.

Which is what happens when you always "place the mission first" whenyou are going to "destroy"--rather than defeat--your enemies. As my American vet put it: "the activities in American military prisons and the hundreds of reported incidents against civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere are not aberrations--they are part of what the US military, according to the ethos, is intended to be. Many other armies behave in a worse fashion than the US Army. But those armies don't claim to be the "good guys" ... I think we need... a military composed of soldiers, not warriors."



Winston Churchill understood military honour. "In defeat, defiance," he advised Britons in the Second World War. "In victory, magnanimity." Not any more. According to George W Bush this week "the safety of America depends on the outcome of the battle in the streets of Baghdad" because we are only in the "early hours of this struggle between tyranny and freedom".

I suppose, in the end, we are supposed to lead the 21st century into a shining age of human liberty in the dungeons of "black" prisons, under the fists of US Marines, on the exhaust pipes of Humvees. We are warriors, we are Samurai. We draw the sword. We will destroy. Which is exactly what Osama bin Laden said.

http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=33348


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14993.htm

All because of Bush and thinking he and his forces are about International laws and human rights. no wonder they are going to loose in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
38
Petawawa Ontario
" insurgents sometimes placed them there to force the Americans to halt and face ambush--they were under orders to drive over the children without stopping. "

Oh so its our fault that Insurgents use inhumane tattics, Thats war, get your head out of your ass. Fundamentalist Muslims have declared a war on us too, so is the west and the USA THE ONLY murderous Nations no, Lets not forget the people who blow themselves up their own people up just to kill a few Western Soldiers. This is a war, both side are acting legitment, if you dont like it perhaps you can go to Iraq and Protest, but this is somethign bigger than you and me, and it something that Both side feel needs to be done for their own reason. There has been wars before and there are some now. Maybe you should fell compasion for the people who fight it and have been through the worse fighting for you and other Normal Muslims with normals wishes of peace. Get over yourself and think about what it is in the main swing of things.

Iraq was a mess up yes, but it would be worse off to leave now, so stop your whineing because befor eyou know it you will be complaining about the americans leaving and leaving a mess behind. Americans are dieing and so are Iraqs who fight insurgents, get with it and stop whaling about things that are normal human nature and for what is precevied to protect us and them at this point.
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
9
38
Re: RE: American Troops are Murderous Animals

EastSideScotian said:
" insurgents sometimes placed them there to force the Americans to halt and face ambush--they were under orders to drive over the children without stopping. "

Oh so its our fault that Insurgents use inhumane tattics, Thats war, get your head out of your ass. Fundamentalist Muslims have declared a war on us too, so is the west and the USA THE ONLY murderous Nations no, Lets not forget the people who blow themselves up their own people up just to kill a few Western Soldiers. This is a war, both side are acting legitment, if you dont like it perhaps you can go to Iraq and Protest, but this is somethign bigger than you and me, and it something that Both side feel needs to be done for their own reason. There has been wars before and there are some now. Maybe you should fell compasion for the people who fight it and have been through the worse fighting for you and other Normal Muslims with normals wishes of peace. Get over yourself and think about what it is in the main swing of things.

Iraq was a mess up yes, but it would be worse off to leave now, so stop your whineing because befor eyou know it you will be complaining about the americans leaving and leaving a mess behind. Americans are dieing and so are Iraqs who fight insurgents, get with it and stop whaling about things that are normal human nature and for what is precevied to protect us and them at this point.


It is not the insurgent fault if the coalition of the willing started the war based on speculation, it is not insurgent faults if some preak on the other side of the planet, decided that god gave oil to wrong peooples,it is not insurgent fault, if human rights are violated by american troops in iraq, and so on and so on......


It would not be worst if the Coalition of the willings are leaving, that is totally out of your ass, it is just the same ridicoulus speculation that saddam had wmd before the second gulf war.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I think it's unfair to trash the men and women fighting over there. Agree or disagree with the mission, American soldiers are only doing their jobs. Probably the toughest jobs on the planet right now.
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
9
38
Re: RE: American Troops are Murderous Animals

Kreskin said:
I think it's unfair to trash the men and women fighting over there. Agree or disagree with the mission, American soldiers are only doing their jobs. Probably the toughest jobs on the planet right now.


That doesnt matter, probably the thoughest job on the planet, but that doesnt justified their behavior, nothing justified that, they are what they are.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Re: RE: American Troops are Murderous Animals

Logic 7 said:
Kreskin said:
I think it's unfair to trash the men and women fighting over there. Agree or disagree with the mission, American soldiers are only doing their jobs. Probably the toughest jobs on the planet right now.


That doesnt matter, probably the thoughest job on the planet, but that doesnt justified their behavior, nothing justified that, they are what they are.

They're in a hornets nest and their jobs aren't to win a congeniality contest. They do what they're trained to do.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
RE: American Troops are M

Yeah, even tho I think the mission is idiotic, and I have no doubt that people 10 years my junior are literally going INSANE and doing unspeakable things over there, I honestly can't blame any of the ground troops and frontline soldiers for the full measure of the atrocity going on in the middle east, I can't imagine what it would be like watching your buddies die for pure BS, watching vet's benefits get gutted by the same administration that claims so often and so vehemently that to NOT "support the troops" is tantamount to treason, knowing that the folks you are working to "Liberate" hate and in fact want to KILL you by-and-large through no real fault of your own.. having you heada so full of lies while facing the REALITY that thankfully most of us will never face... it must be more like Hell than the way it's described in the Bible, and not because of the old saw "war is hell" (beautifully co-opeted by propagandists for a few decades now, but I digress), but because when you are doing the work of TRUE evil, unwittingly, it can NEVER lead to "good" for anyone


I offer this only as a counterpoint- while I am fully against the current imperialistic adventures abroad, I do indeed believe that good men are doing terrible things because they are literally being forced to become "animals"; in the saddest form of the word, filled with fear and totally out of touch with the reality, the enormity of the situation which is not the fault of any individual so involved...

more like "don't shoot the messenger, shoot the asshole who ordered the message sent"
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
37
48
Great Satan
I've been in the Marines for 12 years and have still managed to not torutre rape or murder anyone. So I guess your subject line is wrong, big surprise there...

Here's our Prayer:

The Marines Prayer

Almighty Father, whose command is over all and whose love never fails, make me aware of Thy
presence and obedient to Thy will. Keep me true to my best self, guarding me against dishonesty in purpose in deed and helping me to live so that I can face my fellow Marines, my loved ones and Thee without shame or fear. Protect my family. Give me the will to do the work of a Marine and to accept my share of responsibilities with vigor and enthusiasm. Grant me the courage to be proficient in my daily performance. Keep me loyal and faithful to my superiors and to the duties my country and the Marine Corps have entrusted to me. Make me considerate of those committed to my leadership. Help me to wear my uniform with dignity, and let it remind me daily of the traditions which I must uphold.
If I am inclined to doubt; steady my faith; if I am tempted, make me strong to resist; if I should miss the mark, give me courage to try again. Guide me with the light of truth and grant me wisdom by which I may understand the answer to my prayer. Amen.

But I prefer this myself...

This is my rifle.

There are many like it, but this one is MINE.

My rifle is my best friend. It is my life.

I must master it as I must master my life.

My rifle without me is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless.

I must fire my rifle true.

I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me.

I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

My rifle and myself know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire,

the noise of our bursts, nor the smoke we make.

We know it is the hits that count. We will hit...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life.

Thus, I will learn it as a brother.

I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories,
its sights, and its barrel.

I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage.

I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready.

We will become part of each other. We will...

Before God I swear this creed.

My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country.

We are the masters of our enemy.

We are the saviors of my life.

So be it, until there is no enemy, but PEACE.

-- Maj Gen WH Rupertus

It takes that kind of commitment to ensure that you armchair politicians and generals out there continue to have the right and ability to call us Murderous Animals. Don't for one second think the enemy doesnt come to your lands and heap violence on you because of peaceful protests, or media coverage showing how everyone hates Bush. The enemy is at the gates, and they are staying outside of the gates because of men and women who are ready to do violence back on them.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
United Nations Wrote: In Canada, an American military deserter appealed for refugee status and a serving comrade gave evidence that when US forces saw babies lying in the road in Fallujah--outrageously, it appears, insurgents sometimes placed them there to force the Americans to halt and face ambush--they were under orders to drive over the children without stopping.

Of course this coward is telling the truth right??? Now say we stopped and pick up the baby and the entire Platoon gets killed what happens to the baby? Will the filth that put it there give it back to it's mother? Or will they leave it on the side of the road to die? What Kind of filthy animal would use a Baby as bait, what oh yea a Terrorist who cares more about their hatred than the lives of their children. Hatred UN foaming at the mouth hatred, they care for nothing or no one but hurting their "Supposed" enemies.

Interesting Monker United Nations, for those who have served under the UN most considered it the most inept, politically correct/corrupt organization on the planet. Biased to the point that they don't walk they sidle sideways down their priviledge halls of the UN whilst making pots of money off Oil for Aide type scams.

thomaske, thanks for the back ground. The Marines rock.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: American Troops are M

I just can't get over the American seeking political asylum in Canada....isn't he in the wrong century? lol :laughing3:
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
I can't believe how both sides view this issue as a black or white issue. Both sides do not see that they are both at fault.

Is the USA creating more problems then the one's it is trying to solve? Yeah. Is it making terrorism worse, yes.

Are the Muslim fanatics using every excuse to go on a Murderous rampage, yup. Are they blowing away innocent people, yup.

Do I support either side... no way?

Can this be solved by leaving Iraq, nope, can it be solved by staying in Iraq, nope. We need to get the international community involved, (not NATO). We need to talk to them and be able to show them without aggression that this conflict can be stopped. Then if we fail we need to work as an international community on solving it, perhaps with peace keepers.

Everyone can see the current way we are trying to solve it is not working, is making a new generation, perhaps a larger generation of terrorists to come.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Hi Daz, yes it is rather ironic considering he was a volunteer who changed his mind and deserted. If he really wanted out of the Military he could of colded cocked his Commanding Officer, do a few days in the Brig and get dismissed.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: RE: American Troops are Murderous Animals

Sassylassie said:
Hi Daz, yes it is rather ironic considering he was a volunteer who changed his mind and deserted. If he really wanted out of the Military he could of colded cocked his Commanding Officer, do a few days in the Brig and get dismissed.

Yeah but he would be stuck with a dishonourable discharge for the rest of his life. This way by making it political he has a chance that a Democratic lead government would clear him. I doubt the Democrats would do that but there's a chance. Also taking the political road it is easyier to explain it to people and well.... makes him look better in some peoples eyes.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Interesting take there Finder. Which international community are you suggesting steps in and talks to the warring parties?

And when has chit chat ever stopped a crisis like this?
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: American Troops are M

hehehe like Canada would ever go against the US on such a political hot potato lol....
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
I think not said:
Interesting take there Finder. Which international community are you suggesting steps in and talks to the warring parties?

And when has chit chat ever stopped a crisis like this?


Well the fact is, what we are doing now is not working very well. Yeah we are killing some terrorists and some innocents, but at the same time we are making many people angry, many moderates into fanatics. I know you will laugh at this but we should really push the United Nations into action about this. The USA should go to the UN and state it's posistion Realistically and pretty much force the issue. In a sense the United Nations has to act or it will become irrelevant. Perhaps it already is in many cases it's starting to remind me of the non-aligned movement. Perhaps it's time for it to be replaced.

After the 9/11 attacks the world went behind the USA I would say killed much of this support by invading Iraq and going around the United Nations. We now know the intelligence the USA had was faulty this is one of the problems too.


PS:
We need to heal these rifts because we have a lot of things to deal with, such as Iran and North Korea. If we do not come together on these issues then they will act as another wedge between our nations and one which will radicalize more moderates.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
I don't think having the UN play a leading and major role in Iraq is anything to laugh about. But I have never seen the UN do anything about a crisis situation. I have never seen the UN force or negotiate a way to silence the guns. They send "peacekeepers" when both sides are either fed up fighting or peace has already been established and the UN sends troops to "ensure" the peace. Like the Arab-Israeli conflict in 1967. You really believe they stopped fighting because of the UN? I tend to believe it's the $1.5 Billion Israel gets and the $1 Billion Egypt gets, each and every year, compliments of the American taxpayer.

No, I have never seen the UN stop any conflict.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
I think not said:
I don't think having the UN play a leading and major role in Iraq is anything to laugh about. But I have never seen the UN do anything about a crisis situation. I have never seen the UN force or negotiate a way to silence the guns. They send "peacekeepers" when both sides are either fed up fighting or peace has already been established and the UN sends troops to "ensure" the peace. Like the Arab-Israeli conflict in 1967. You really believe they stopped fighting because of the UN? I tend to believe it's the $1.5 Billion Israel gets and the $1 Billion Egypt gets, each and every year, compliments of the American taxpayer.

No, I have never seen the UN stop any conflict.

Have you ever heard of the Korean War? (UN police action)
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Yes I've heard of the Korean War. And how did the UN stop the war?

Let's do a quick recap. UN authorizes the use of force.

US, Canada, Britian and others fight in the war against he communists.

War ends with a truce, no cease fire, no end of war.

And for the past 60 years, we have troops (The US) in the DMZ guarding South Korea.

Your move.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
So "I think not" you think the United Nations effort was in vain and a communist Korea would be better then the situation we have now? Never knew you were a supporter of North Korea's goals. My hats off to you, never knew you were a Ultra Stalinist too.

The United nations efforts in Korea prevented the fall of the South Korean state, if the United Nations had not entered the war there would be no South korea only the DPRK! Of course your hatred for the United Nations seems to over power this whole anti-terrorist, anti-islamo-fascist thing of yours it would seem.