The Fall of the United Nations

HonestAbe

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May 5, 2006
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I know that nobody is interested in talking about the UN, but I was wondering if anybody thought that the UN was losing support, and is going to disband in the near future. I think that with all of the corruption, and what not, going on right now, the UN won't even exist in a few years.

Would that be a good or a bad thing? I don't know. On the one hand, I'm all for having an organization like the UN, but on the other hand, the Current UN is a piece of crap.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: The Fall of the Unite

It doe''s need an overhaul and I hope we get it done because if we don't this planet will be glass. That's a good idea JohnnieIdaho we should move the UN HQ to Canada I would donate the land. :lol:
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Honest Abe

Which particular corruption are you talking about?
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
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Honest Abe could be referring to the "UN Oil for Food Scandal" or Koffi"UNSCAM"Annan's son Kojo Annan using his dad's position to save on paying taxes for a Benz..
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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comment | posted November 18, 2004 (December 6, 2004 issue)
UN Oil for Food 'Scandal'

Joy Gordon


The CIA's Duelfer report may have confirmed the gross falsity of the WMD claims invoked by the Bush Administration to justify its war against Iraq, but it has also triggered a feeding frenzy in the growing attacks against the United Nations. In January the Iraqi newspaper Al Mada published a list of people and organizations, including UN personnel, who supposedly received vouchers from the Iraqi government to purchase oil. In April the General Accounting Office (since renamed the Government Accountability Office) published a report claiming that the Oil for Food (OFF) program had been rife with corruption and that through smuggling and kickbacks, Saddam Hussein had managed to acquire more than $10 billion in illicit funds. A series of Congressional investigations followed, featuring conservative witnesses who pilloried the UN for incompetence, corruption and general unfitness. In the latest hearings chaired by Republican Norm Coleman, the committee staff claimed that Saddam's access to illicit funds totalled over $21 billion--twice the sum claimed by the CIA--and that the money went to terrorists around the world, not to mention (rather astonishingly) the post-Saddam insurgency.

If it is true that Benon Sevan, former head of the OFF program, accepted illicit oil vouchers, then that may well constitute fraud (although the evidence cited against him so far has been tenuous). But it would also have been in direct violation of clear UN policies--hardly an indicator of institutional corruption.

Rarely mentioned, either at the hearings or in the press coverage, was the fundamental distinction between the policies established by the Secretariat and the UN agencies and those that result from decisions of particular member states within the highly politicized Security Council. For example, the CIA report says that the bulk of the illicit transactions were "government to government agreements" between Iraq and a few other countries, for trade outside the OFF program. According to the report, they resulted in income to Iraq of $7.5 billion.

CONTINUED BELOW
The largest of these arrangements was with Jordan--revenue from which totaled about $4.5 billion. This trade arrangement was the single largest source of Iraqi income outside the OFF program. From 1990 until the OFF program began in late 1996, "Jordan was the key to Iraq's financial survival," according to the report. Why didn't "the UN" do something about it? Because the Security Council--where the United States was by far the single most influential member--decided in May 1991 that no action would be taken to interfere in Iraq's trade with Jordan, America's closest ally in the Arab world.

Likewise, the maritime smuggling that took place under the nose of "the UN" in fact took place under the nose of something called the Multinational Interception Force, a group of member nations that responded to the general invitation of the Security Council for nations to interdict Iraqi smuggling. The "UN" Multinational Interception Force turns out to have consisted almost entirely of the US Navy. The commander of the MIF was at every point, from 1991 to 2003, a rear admiral or vice admiral from the US Fifth Fleet. The United States contributed the overwhelming majority of ships--hundreds in fact. Britain provided the deputy commander and some naval forces and other countries contributed a few ships. The UN itself provided no forces or commanders. "The UN" failure to interdict Saddam's tankers of illicit oil turns out, in nearly every regard, to have been a US naval operation.


The much-vaunted kickbacks on import contracts also turn out to be not quite as advertised. Saddam, the claim goes, inflated the price of import contracts by 5 to 10 percent, then received the difference in cash from the contractors. Thousands of contracts, stretching over years, were involved; how could the UN have been so incompetent as not to notice? In fact, prices inflated by only 5 or 10 percent were difficult to detect precisely because the amounts were so small and often within the normal range of market prices. But when pricing irregularities were large enough that they might have indicated kickbacks, the UN staff did notice. On more than seventy occasions, the staff brought these to the attention of the 661 Committee, the Security Council body charged with implementing the sanctions. On no occasion did the United States block or delay the contracts to prevent the kickbacks from occurring. Although the United States, citing security concerns, blocked billions of dollars of humanitarian contracts--$5 billion were on hold as of July 2002--it never took action to stop kickbacks, even when they were obvious and well documented.

Far from giving Saddam a free hand, the OFF program involved extensive monitoring and oversight. The government of Iraq first had to submit a list of every single item it hoped to purchase in the coming six months, and the UN staff had to approve the list. Once Iraq had signed a contract with a vendor, the contract was circulated to UNSCOM (later UNMOVIC), to see if there was anything that could be used for military purposes. Every member of the Security Council had the opportunity to review every contract, and each member could block or delay any contract for imports. Every member of the Security Council also had to approve every contract for the sale of oil. If there was cash paid under the table, it did not happen for lack of oversight. It happened despite the most elaborate monitoring system imaginable. And if the members of the Security Council--including the United States--failed to do their job, that is not the fault of Kofi Annan.

The Duelfer report, along with eight sets of Congressional hearings, vitriolic press coverage and considerable ranting by the right, suggest an antipathy toward the UN that goes well beyond election-season maneuvering. The consequences of this scandal will be considerable. We witnessed the ill-fated decision to invade Iraq without Security Council authorization; we might recall that the Security Council would not grant the American demand to authorize an invasion, precisely because the United States was unable to provide any compelling evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. If the world's most respected institution of international governance is rendered impotent by accusations as distorted and exaggerated as these, we should all fear the consequences.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Independent Palestine
Oil for Food again? God damn you Americans really hate the United Nations because it doesn't remain under your finger for long.

The U.N is not going to end in a few years, it needs a major overhaul which was defeated last year by members of the United Nations, including the one everyone loves, America.

And to note, during America's occupation of Iraq at least 9 billion was lost by the American administration in Iraq and it is suspected that several more billion have been lost to contractors who did no work at all in Iraq. And did everyone forget about Haliburtion?
 

HonestAbe

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May 5, 2006
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Wait, didn't the U.S. stop the Overhaul on the UN because the UN wanted the U.S. to pay for it all? Right?

Also:

And to note, during America's occupation of Iraq at least 9 billion was lost by the American administration in Iraq and it is suspected that several more billion have been lost to contractors who did no work at all in Iraq. And did everyone forget about Haliburtion?

What's your source?
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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God damn you Americans really hate the United Nations because it doesn't remain under your finger for long.
----------------------Jersay---------------------------------

There's over-reactions to the UN on all sides,
when you go round and round on the matter.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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I dunno, ChrisP, we're a microwave food generation.
We want everything YESTERDAY.

I'm of the opinion that we mere mortals are poor at
understanding the abuse and temptation hitting any
politician constantly, and I believe strongly none of
us would fare much better in such an intense
environment.
 

ChrisP

New Member
May 10, 2006
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I have to agree, I've never walked a mile in a politician's shoes. I bet they would be nice shoes though.
 

gd

New Member
Dec 11, 2005
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The UN is a gravy train in part.

Peacekeepers do thier job granted.

Yet the delay of calling dafor a genocide, then not reacting (probably due to lact of available troops) wasn't brilliant.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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If the #1 power in the UN wants it rendered useless it will be. Simple as that. The UN is only as good or useful as the most powerful members wants it to be. It was pretty useful for the US to undermine the UN during the Iraq showdown. It made unilateral confrontation more legitimate. Yet, more illegal oil sales occured outside of the UN to Turkey and Jordan before the Iraq war, right under the noses of those who patrolled the shipping lanes.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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For those who missed this;

the maritime smuggling that took place under the nose of "the UN" in fact took place under the nose of something called the Multinational Interception Force, a group of member nations that responded to the general invitation of the Security Council for nations to interdict Iraqi smuggling. The "UN" Multinational Interception Force turns out to have consisted almost entirely of the US Navy. The commander of the MIF was at every point, from 1991 to 2003, a rear admiral or vice admiral from the US Fifth Fleet. The United States contributed the overwhelming majority of ships--hundreds in fact. Britain provided the deputy commander and some naval forces and other countries contributed a few ships. The UN itself provided no forces or commanders. "The UN" failure to interdict Saddam's tankers of illicit oil turns out, in nearly every regard, to have been a US naval operation.
 

HonestAbe

New Member
May 5, 2006
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So what you're trying to say is? The U.S. is in control of the UN, and the UN is a just a joke?

Also, are there any other instances of this happening?
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Honest Abe

What I "got" from that was the U.S. was again being utilized as the military force (naval force leading a multi-national group) in service yet again to the United Nations.

Quote: The United States contributed the overwhelming majorty of ships --hundreds in fact. ..... the U.N. itself provided no forces or commanders .... Why should they when they have the U.S. for free???

Not the intent of the post but it dances along the line drawn in the sand about the real intent of the message... :p