Why apologize for savagery

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Just recently I was reading a post regarding Iran and I was reminded of a fellow that grew up there. He refused to call himself Iranian and being a Christian in the region he spoke of being beaten and bullied as a child.

His prejudice against Islam started when he and his brother were beaten by a teacher for not observing Islam teachings. He explained that his entire life he was bullied for being from another faith and in the end he immigrated to Canada to escape persecution for his beliefs. Many people who are moderate muslims left the region for similar reasons.

Something which occurrs time and again is the need to point out that we are no better than those we criticize. IE A girl is murdered in Iran for dishonouring her family, a parrallell argument is made that someone crucified a Gay person.

Both acts are abhorrant, but why is one used to excuse the other? Or are some of us so insecure that we must villify our own society in order to justify criticizing another?

I'm sure this post may draw the usual clap trap, but I'm interested to hear sensible persopective.

Cheers
M

 

[Jay]

Some students threw a Prof out the window in Palestine because he dared suggest the Koran might have evolved over time....Students are dangerous as it is, one with a Koran might try to kill you.

Maybe we should start adopting some of these policies? I know some people that need a good throwing out the window...

 

[I think not]

Because my Canadian friend, some people need to stop comparing our atrocities to their atrocities, when they do that, they will have reached a higher plane of understanding.

Whereas the comparison of the acts can be understood as both being abhorent, the ramifications after the acts cannot be justified nor compared.

And it is that part that is carefully omitted when the comparison takes place. The criminals that attacked the young girl in Iran are accountable and answerable to no one. However, we view this on the basis of our laws, not theirs. So the new question arises, as to what laws they have.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I think not. I read your post a number of times and realy can't decide whether you are in agreement with me or you disagree. At the risk of insult could you please clarify your position.

 

[I think not]

Yeah sorry about that, I was typing it up while doing some paperwork and stopped several times, apparently I skipped a couple of paragraphs that I thought I had written. :lol:

Busy dizzy day. Yes I agree with you. In short comparing two incidents without examining the reaction by the state's judicial system is pointless. People that are upto no good exist everywhere. Those who look at the incidents and try to draw political and/or social comparisons only do so to make a political statement; "We are just as bad as they are, so we shouldn't be pointing fingers".

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I think when that comparison is made it is a moot point. To suggest that the in Canada or in the US that the laws do not protect gays is simply not true.

It begs the question I originally raised. Why do we compare the shortcomings of criminals in our society as representatives of our society. I hardly compare 1000's of state endorsed extremists to that of some ignorant bigots.

Thanks for the clarification I think not, just had surgery the other day and was considering easing up on my pain pills.

LOL
M

 

[Jay]

It begs the question I originally raised. Why do we compare the shortcomings of criminals in our society as representatives of our society. I hardly compare 1000's of state endorsed extremists to that of some ignorant bigots.

Well those guys that killed the gay fellow are murders and they go to jail (or worse).

No one in their right mind can compare the two incidences.

 

[I think not]

I think when that comparison is made it is a moot point. To suggest that the in Canada or in the US that the laws do not protect gays is simply not true.

Actually, it isn't a moot point, that is the catalyst that differentiates the "savagery" you refer to and some semblance of social stability? I'll call it that for now. I realize it isn't true, "others" have a different opinion or they just choose to avoid it all together.

It begs the question I originally raised. Why do we compare the shortcomings of criminals in our society as representatives of our society. I hardly compare 1000's of state endorsed extremists to that of some ignorant bigots.

We, is a very broad term you are using, I know of only those on the radical right or left that suggest isolated incidents are representantive of our society. You will hear none of them however refer to the difference of the justice systems after the "acts".

Back to your original question, I think it is to make a "political statement". When "we" talk about the girl in Iran, I believe other than the act itself, we are appalled that they will not receive "proper punishment", as we define it. This furthers the argument of Sharia Law and its place in the 21st century. I think this is ultimately what we are condemning and radical ideologists invoke a touch of "political correctness" with a hard dose of philosophical bullshit.

Thanks for the clarification I think not, just had surgery the other day and was considering easing up on my pain pills.

LOL
M

Well I hope you feel better, keep taking them oain killers, it was some sloppy writing on my end.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Why apologize for savagery

Some students threw a Prof out the window in Palestine because he dared suggest the Koran might have evolved over time....Students are dangerous as it is, one with a Koran might try to kill you.

Maybe we should start adopting some of these policies? I know some people that need a good throwing out the window...

Speculation at his best, and it is not surprising from you, same for this whole thread, guys get a grip on life, this is total west propaganda.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: Why apologize for savagery

Speculation at his best, and it is not surprising from you, same for this whole thread, guys get a grip on life, this is total west propaganda.

The propaganda is a two way street. You're right that the western sources on information are to be second guessed. However in the Mideast there is also much propaganda against the faceless west, even in schools. Many there are content to just lump us in the same group as those they rail against. Unfortunately so do many of "us".

Dammit nothing's ever easy.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Why apologize for savagery

Speculation at his best, and it is not surprising from you, same for this whole thread, guys get a grip on life, this is total west propaganda.

The propaganda is a two way street. You're right that the western sources on information are to be second guessed. However in the Mideast there is also much propaganda against the faceless west, even in schools. Many there are content to just lump us in the same group as those they rail against. Unfortunately so do many of "us".

Dammit nothing's ever easy.

True i admit you right, i have never said middle east were not victims of propaganda, but talking about the koran and what this guys talks about iran, is just as stupid from them to call us ""the infidels"" same stupidity, same kind of people who says it.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Why apologize for savagery

Some students threw a Prof out the window in Palestine because he dared suggest the Koran might have evolved over time....Students are dangerous as it is, one with a Koran might try to kill you.

Maybe we should start adopting some of these policies? I know some people that need a good throwing out the window...

Speculation at his best, and it is not surprising from you, same for this whole thread, guys get a grip on life, this is total west propaganda.

It isn't specualation in the least...look it up.

 

[darkbeaver]

I think when that comparison is made it is a moot point. To suggest that the in Canada or in the US that the laws do not protect gays is simply not true.

Actually, it isn't a moot point, that is the catalyst that differentiates the "savagery" you refer to and some semblance of social stability? I'll call it that for now. I realize it isn't true, "others" have a different opinion or they just choose to avoid it all together.

It begs the question I originally raised. Why do we compare the shortcomings of criminals in our society as representatives of our society. I hardly compare 1000's of state endorsed extremists to that of some ignorant bigots.

We, is a very broad term you are using, I know of only those on the radical right or left that suggest isolated incidents are representantive of our society. You will hear none of them however refer to the difference of the justice systems after the "acts".

Back to your original question, I think it is to make a "political statement". When "we" talk about the girl in Iran, I believe other than the act itself, we are appalled that they will not receive "proper punishment", as we define it. This furthers the argument of Sharia Law and its place in the 21st century. I think this is ultimately what we are condemning and radical ideologists invoke a touch of "political correctness" with a hard dose of philosophical bullshit.

Thanks for the clarification I think not, just had surgery the other day and was considering easing up on my pain pills.

LOL
M

Well I hope you feel better, keep taking them oain killers, it was some sloppy writing on my end.

American State sponsered terrorism is not isolated, it is a matter of policy. And there is no justice applied for any of the crimes after any of the acts.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Darkbeaver: American State sponsered terrorism is not isolated, it is a matter of policy. And there is no justice applied for any of the crimes after any of the acts.

Have you ever considered changing your handle to DumbBeaver, or SickBeaver or even DatBeaver of wittle wisdom but much nonsense

Gosh Beaver, your rebuttals are getting weirder without your sidekick cortez.

Good luck with it
M

 

[Jay]

Or dead beaver....

I have pictures in Wreck Beach you might find amusing.

 

[aeon]

Darkbeaver: American State sponsered terrorism is not isolated, it is a matter of policy. And there is no justice applied for any of the crimes after any of the acts.

Have you ever considered changing your handle to DumbBeaver, or SickBeaver or even DatBeaver of wittle wisdom but much nonsense

Gosh Beaver, your rebuttals are getting weirder without your sidekick cortez.

Good luck with it
M

Instead of insulting others, like the right wing retards like to do, bring facts, not fairy tail.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Sure AEON. There's the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

"State sponsered terrorism." Words of wisdom from Hamas, Al Quaeda and apologists when referring to the United states.

The states who sponsor terror I know about wrap themselves in the religion of love and peace while they call for the execution of converts.

Facts not fair tales.

PS If Darkbeaver were a bit more serious and did not rejoice at the death of his Countrymen I would not treat him lwith such disdain

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Why apologize for savagery

"State sponsered terrorism." Words of wisdom from Hamas, Al Quaeda and apologists when referring to the United states.

The states who sponsor terror I know about wrap themselves in the religion of love and peace while they call for the execution of converts.

Facts not fair tales.

Speculations at his best, otherwise prove it.

 

[Sassylassie]

What facts Aeon, all you post is propaganda. It's common knowledge that since September11 the Arabs, Muslim Extremists, and the Middle East have been trying to confuse the moderate groups by deflecting their terrorist acts by blaming the USA. You didn't expect such a back lash of anger from the moderates did ya. So a cleaver a plan was hatched to throw wild plots and theories into the media spot light. Really Aeon, the above groups have been spewing miss-information and bull shit for decades and we the people don't believe a word of it and I pray the moderates don't fall for your bull-shit propaganda. Nighty, night.