Israel a democracy?? Yeah right

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
JERUSALEM - Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has laid out the choice in stark terms: a vote for his Kadima Party in Tuesday's election is a vote for an Israeli pullback from much of the West Bank.

ADVERTISEMENT

Barring an unexpected right-wing surge, Israelis will give a green light to that idea in a watershed election that looks set to lead the Jewish state toward separation from most Palestinians after 39 years of occupation.

But the vote is more than a referendum on withdrawal. The makeup of the next Knesset will largely determine the shape of Israel's final borders — and the degree to which they will cut into the territory wanted by Palestinians for a future state.

Even major violence appears unlikely to shake a new Israeli consensus that Israel must quit the main Palestinian population centers if it is to be both Jewish and democratic.

Police were taking no chances Monday, tightening security at West Bank checkpoints and closing off Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque compound to visitors. Officers stood guard on the roofs and balconies of buildings above Jerusalem's Jaffa Road, peering into a crowded market through binoculars.

On the campaign's last day, Labor Party leader Amir Peretz handed out red carnations in Tel Aviv, while Benjamin Netanyahu, head of the rightist Likud Party, said prayers at the Western Wall, Judaism's holiest site. Kadima's No. 2, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, chatted with vendors at Jerusalem's main outdoor market, eating a strawberry one of them gave her.

Kadima, the centrist party formed by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon two months before he suffered a massive stroke that left him comatose, is promising divorce — not only from the Palestinians but also from old formulas of "land for peace" and the establishment of a "Greater Israel" incorporating conquered Arab lands.

The lure of divorce has grown stronger in the wake of Hamas militants' rise to power in the Palestinian territories, fueling a go-it-alone approach that is fast becoming the defining characteristic of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Sharon's main legacy has been to plant the idea that Israel need not wait for a formal peace treaty to separate from the Palestinians, and his successor, Olmert, has positioned himself as the man most likely to make that happen.

That helps explain why Olmert, a cigar-smoking former mayor of Jerusalem with a reputation for smugness, is expected to easily become Israel's next prime minister even though he's not particularly liked.

"The reason I believe that Kadima has persisted is because it was never about Sharon but about finally giving expression to the one political camp in this country that until now has been consistently underrepresented, the centrist majority that is hard-line on security but pragmatic on territory," said Yossi Klein Halevi, a senior fellow at the Shalem Center think tank in Jerusalem.

After Sharon's Jan. 4 stroke, poll numbers showed Kadima winning about 40 of the 120 parliament seats up for grabs. That number has dropped to 35 seats or less, according to most polls, with the left-of-center Labor Party coming in second with around 20 seats and Likud a distant third with about a dozen seats — a stunning decline for the party that ruled Israel for most of the past three decades.

With Israel's traditional right-left divide largely replaced by an emerging consensus on the need to "disengage" from the Palestinians — and with Kadima considered a shoo-in for forming the next government — the elections have been described as the dullest in Israeli history.

But many questions remain unanswered:

• Will right-wing parties, aligned with religious forces, be able to pull off a last-minute upset, forming a "blocking majority" of 60 seats instead of the 52 or so predicted by current polls?

• Will left-wing parties win enough seats to force Kadima to take a softer stance toward the Palestinians, perhaps altering plans to incorporate large swaths of West Bank territory in any future pullback?

• Will Kadima need to rely on Arab parties to form a ruling coalition?

• Will Olmert ask Avigdor Lieberman, head of a surging right-wing party that advocates redrawing borders to exclude Arab citizens from Israeli territory, to join a coalition?

Olmert made it clear in pre-election interviews that he planned to withdraw from much of the West Bank and draw Israel's final borders within four years, a surprising deviation from previous candidates who kept post-vote policy plans deliberately vague.

But in the absence of peace talks, few expect Olmert's borders to look anything like the kind of state Palestinians envision for themselves, with expanded Israeli settlement blocs jutting far into the West Bank.

"Kadima is certainly a party of unilateralism and of singlehandedly dictating the borders of both states," said Palestinian lawmaker Hanan Ashrawi. "We don't see that there is any peace movement or camp in Israel that is emerging in order to accept the requirements of a two-state solution and of a negotiated settlement based on international law."

Danny Radovan, a 30-year-old wine seller, counts himself among the 10 percent of Israeli voters who are still undecided. Withdrawal from the West Bank, he said, "is the only solution, but you have to tread lightly and not rush in.

"We can't have snipers sitting up on hills (yards) away from our houses."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060327...egZ39Cs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

Kind of funny, a group of people who were almost decimated by the Germans in WWII are now doing the exact same things to the Palestinians. They have destroyed their economies, they have destroyed their political structured, killed thousands, left them in poverty, and now they want to take large chunks of the West Bank, which is not apart of their territory, its illegally occupied territory.

And people in the West wonder why there are sucicide bombers.

Israel a democracy. Yeah right.

A right-wing religious country, one of the few left in the world that discriminates against its Arab minorities. Bingo.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Jersay said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060327...egZ39Cs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

Kind of funny, a group of people who were almost decimated by the Germans in WWII are now doing the exact same things to the Palestinians. They have destroyed their economies, they have destroyed their political structured, killed thousands, left them in poverty, and now they want to take large chunks of the West Bank, which is not apart of their territory, its illegally occupied territory.

And people in the West wonder why there are sucicide bombers.

Israel a democracy. Yeah right.

A right-wing religious country, one of the few left in the world that discriminates against its Arab minorities. Bingo.


Hitler was supported by rothschild bank.

israel are supported by the same.


Same crap, different place.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
68
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Aeon, you sound as if you learned all this stuff about
Jews and America yesterday, because you have the
zeal of a convert.

I know you knew of all of this stuff a long time ago,
but it is quite wearisome to plow through each fact
with a countervailing fact to prove to you that the
world you see is WAY MORE COMPLICATED and NUANCED
than your simplistic view of it is.

To me, you are just as simplistic on the leftwing way
as we know the radical rightwingers are.

In many ways, the jews have greater power than their
simple population numbers would give them.

True.

Yet this simplistic view looks at this as some dark secret
nefarious matter.

The more complicated view comes from a wisdom
how things develop organically, not artificially like
some Greek deux ex machina trickery.

Throughout history we've seen the bogey man.

It's a highly suspicious and perniciously SIMPLE view,
that both leftwingers and rightwingers posit.

The left lives for the passion of its anger at the bogeyman Jew and bogeyman American.

The right lives for the passion of its anger at the
bogey man Communists of the past and the bogey
man Islamic terrorist.

We're just picking our noses.

We're just masturbating.

None of us are smarter than our politicians and leaders.

I think all of us are pretty stupid, because if any of
us would be in a position of power to make life
and death decisions on appropriating money to noble
causes on poverty and disease and debating about
when and when not to go war, when and where to
draw the line and make a stand, I think we would find
out in our hearts that we are no better than the
leaders and politicians to which we delegate this
division of labor.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: Israel a democracy?? Yeah right

jimmoyer said:
The left lives for the passion of its anger at the bogeyman Jew and bogeyman American.

And they have the nerve to tell us communism was a bogeyman....
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Re: RE: Israel a democracy?? Yeah right

jimmoyer said:
Aeon, you sound as if you learned all this stuff about
Jews and America yesterday, because you have the
zeal of a convert.

Don t worry , i know what is going on in israel, in middle east more than average people, that is a fact,but i am not saying i know all details, that is also a fact.


jimmoyer said:
I know you knew of all of this stuff a long time ago,
but it is quite wearisome to plow through each fact
with a countervailing fact to prove to you that the
world you see is WAY MORE COMPLICATED and NUANCED
than your simplistic view of it is.

To me, you are just as simplistic on the leftwing way
as we know the radical rightwingers are.

In many ways, the jews have greater power than their
simple population numbers would give them.

True.

Yet this simplistic view looks at this as some dark secret
nefarious matter.

The more complicated view comes from a wisdom
how things develop organically, not artificially like
some Greek deux ex machina trickery.

Throughout history we've seen the bogey man.

It's a highly suspicious and perniciously SIMPLE view,
that both leftwingers and rightwingers posit.

The left lives for the passion of its anger at the bogeyman Jew and bogeyman American.

The right lives for the passion of its anger at the
bogey man Communists of the past and the bogey
man Islamic terrorist.

We're just picking our noses.

We're just masturbating.

None of us are smarter than our politicians and leaders.

I think all of us are pretty stupid, because if any of
us would be in a position of power to make life
and death decisions on appropriating money to noble
causes on poverty and disease and debating about
when and when not to go war, when and where to
draw the line and make a stand, I think we would find
out in our hearts that we are no better than the
leaders and politicians to which we delegate this
division of labor.


My bad,I have to agree with you on that one, it is true, but the problem is simple, that includes not only america, but the whole coaltions, canada,usa,france,germany,UK, and so on , is the fact that coorporations has too much power on our politiciens, we as people must get that power out of their hands, and give it back to the peoples, until then, we will see what we see these days, lies, illegal wars, dead innoncent peoples around the world, terrorism, and so on, coorporation are not our friends, they are there to make incredible amount of profits, when normal people are getting poor.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
68
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Aeon, you need to go back over Communist catechism
concerning TO EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR NEEDS.

Karl Marx caught something there.

It implies all of us are different.

If we started off with the same amount of wealth,
by year's end some sprint off ahead while other lose
what they got.

We are all individually different with different talents
and different abilities and more importantly with
different energies.

Personal energy is the key to a better life.

Industriousness.

Your views must deepen on this matter or you'll
just stay in the shallow end of the pool, man.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Re: RE: Israel a democracy?? Yeah right

jimmoyer said:
Aeon, you need to go back over Communist catechism
concerning TO EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR NEEDS.

Karl Marx caught something there.

It implies all of us are different.

If we started off with the same amount of wealth,
by year's end some sprint off ahead while other lose
what they got.

We are all individually different with different talents
and different abilities and more importantly with
different energies.

Personal energy is the key to a better life.

Industriousness.

Your views must deepen on this matter or you'll
just stay in the shallow end of the pool, man.

In the shallow end of the pool we may stand on the firmness of bedrock while in the deep end you swim forever flailing your weakening arms, grasping at passing flotsum,untill finally you sink to the bottom drowned in choice, you need JimMoyer you need to pull your head out of the sand and smell the roses. If we are all different then how will the American garment fit everyone.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Pist, ITN I think Cortez is a girl. I'm serious from her recent posts I'd say she's a lass not a lad.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
Jersay said:
JERUSALEM - Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has laid out the choice in stark terms: a vote for his Kadima Party in Tuesday's election is a vote for an Israeli pullback from much of the West Bank.

ADVERTISEMENT

Barring an unexpected right-wing surge, Israelis will give a green light to that idea in a watershed election that looks set to lead the Jewish state toward separation from most Palestinians after 39 years of occupation.

But the vote is more than a referendum on withdrawal. The makeup of the next Knesset will largely determine the shape of Israel's final borders — and the degree to which they will cut into the territory wanted by Palestinians for a future state.

Even major violence appears unlikely to shake a new Israeli consensus that Israel must quit the main Palestinian population centers if it is to be both Jewish and democratic.

Police were taking no chances Monday, tightening security at West Bank checkpoints and closing off Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque compound to visitors. Officers stood guard on the roofs and balconies of buildings above Jerusalem's Jaffa Road, peering into a crowded market through binoculars.

On the campaign's last day, Labor Party leader Amir Peretz handed out red carnations in Tel Aviv, while Benjamin Netanyahu, head of the rightist Likud Party, said prayers at the Western Wall, Judaism's holiest site. Kadima's No. 2, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, chatted with vendors at Jerusalem's main outdoor market, eating a strawberry one of them gave her.

Kadima, the centrist party formed by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon two months before he suffered a massive stroke that left him comatose, is promising divorce — not only from the Palestinians but also from old formulas of "land for peace" and the establishment of a "Greater Israel" incorporating conquered Arab lands.

The lure of divorce has grown stronger in the wake of Hamas militants' rise to power in the Palestinian territories, fueling a go-it-alone approach that is fast becoming the defining characteristic of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Sharon's main legacy has been to plant the idea that Israel need not wait for a formal peace treaty to separate from the Palestinians, and his successor, Olmert, has positioned himself as the man most likely to make that happen.

That helps explain why Olmert, a cigar-smoking former mayor of Jerusalem with a reputation for smugness, is expected to easily become Israel's next prime minister even though he's not particularly liked.

"The reason I believe that Kadima has persisted is because it was never about Sharon but about finally giving expression to the one political camp in this country that until now has been consistently underrepresented, the centrist majority that is hard-line on security but pragmatic on territory," said Yossi Klein Halevi, a senior fellow at the Shalem Center think tank in Jerusalem.

After Sharon's Jan. 4 stroke, poll numbers showed Kadima winning about 40 of the 120 parliament seats up for grabs. That number has dropped to 35 seats or less, according to most polls, with the left-of-center Labor Party coming in second with around 20 seats and Likud a distant third with about a dozen seats — a stunning decline for the party that ruled Israel for most of the past three decades.

With Israel's traditional right-left divide largely replaced by an emerging consensus on the need to "disengage" from the Palestinians — and with Kadima considered a shoo-in for forming the next government — the elections have been described as the dullest in Israeli history.

But many questions remain unanswered:

• Will right-wing parties, aligned with religious forces, be able to pull off a last-minute upset, forming a "blocking majority" of 60 seats instead of the 52 or so predicted by current polls?

• Will left-wing parties win enough seats to force Kadima to take a softer stance toward the Palestinians, perhaps altering plans to incorporate large swaths of West Bank territory in any future pullback?

• Will Kadima need to rely on Arab parties to form a ruling coalition?

• Will Olmert ask Avigdor Lieberman, head of a surging right-wing party that advocates redrawing borders to exclude Arab citizens from Israeli territory, to join a coalition?

Olmert made it clear in pre-election interviews that he planned to withdraw from much of the West Bank and draw Israel's final borders within four years, a surprising deviation from previous candidates who kept post-vote policy plans deliberately vague.

But in the absence of peace talks, few expect Olmert's borders to look anything like the kind of state Palestinians envision for themselves, with expanded Israeli settlement blocs jutting far into the West Bank.

"Kadima is certainly a party of unilateralism and of singlehandedly dictating the borders of both states," said Palestinian lawmaker Hanan Ashrawi. "We don't see that there is any peace movement or camp in Israel that is emerging in order to accept the requirements of a two-state solution and of a negotiated settlement based on international law."

Danny Radovan, a 30-year-old wine seller, counts himself among the 10 percent of Israeli voters who are still undecided. Withdrawal from the West Bank, he said, "is the only solution, but you have to tread lightly and not rush in.

"We can't have snipers sitting up on hills (yards) away from our houses."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060327...egZ39Cs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

Kind of funny, a group of people who were almost decimated by the Germans in WWII are now doing the exact same things to the Palestinians. They have destroyed their economies, they have destroyed their political structured, killed thousands, left them in poverty, and now they want to take large chunks of the West Bank, which is not apart of their territory, its illegally occupied territory.

And people in the West wonder why there are sucicide bombers.

Israel a democracy. Yeah right.

A right-wing religious country, one of the few left in the world that discriminates against its Arab minorities. Bingo.

Israel is a Democracy, they elected the newly formed Kadima party started by former Pm Ariel Sharon.

Israel is not to blame for the Palestinians Economy for going bust that is Arafat's fault. You know the Terrorist Arafat who stole at least 2 billion in aid that was intended for the Palestinian people for himself which he hid in bank accounts in Europe which gave his wife in Paris a nice comfy life style..

Your also attacking Israel's religious beliefs calling them right wing? I guess you don't know that Benjamin Netanyahu and his party who lost are very extreme right wing and the Israelis didn't vote for them so to call Israelis religious extreme right wingers is way off base.

And people in the West wonder why there are sucicide bombers.
This sounds like your justifying Suicide Bombers in Israel saying it's Israel's own fault.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Military Occupation buddy. Israel has to take care of the Palestinians if they like to or not. They are occupying them, that is what people who support Israel don't get.

You can blame Arafat, the territories are still Israel so they have to ensure medical care, jobs, end poverty, no illegal detention or repercussions against families and innocent civilians.

Have they done that. No!

And that is why you have people blowing themselves up. Because of what Israel has done over 37 to 39 years.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Johnny Utah said:
Israel is a Democracy, they elected the newly formed Kadima party started by former Pm Ariel Sharon.

Israel is not to blame for the Palestinians Economy for going bust that is Arafat's fault. You know the Terrorist Arafat who stole at least 2 billion in aid that was intended for the Palestinian people for himself which he hid in bank accounts in Europe which gave his wife in Paris a nice comfy life style..

Your also attacking Israel's religious beliefs calling them right wing? I guess you don't know that Benjamin Netanyahu and his party who lost are very extreme right wing and the Israelis didn't vote for them so to call Israelis religious extreme right wingers is way off base.

And people in the West wonder why there are sucicide bombers.
This sounds like your justifying Suicide Bombers in Israel saying it's Israel's own fault.


Israel, a democracy that oppressed peoples, kills innoncent people, give them no human right, steal their natural ressource, put wall around cities,illegally occupied territory, deny UN resolution (72 in total),when you look at that, we cant be mad at them by explosing themselves, what left there is to do??

You are sitting confortably in your fat butt, have a normal life, and you still accept to send troop on the other side of the planet, where most of the american, doesnt even know where is iraq, for a pre-emptive war, based on a lie, where no iraqies has ever done anything to you, i am sorry but no american, no brits and even no canadian can play the moral cards on them, because you guys are 10 times worst than any palestinians groups, at least they are doing it for a real cause, which is their land.