March 22nd, 2006, 09:41 AM
There was an interesting exchange of views yesterday on CNN regarding the reporting on Iraq. As we know the conservative groups have been all over any bad news stories about Iraq as "leftist Liberal reporting". I have great respect for Michael Ware and thought he did a very good job turning the tables, asking where conservatives are telling the story on the ground:
There was an interesting exchange of views yesterday on CNN regarding the reporting on Iraq. As we know the conservative groups have been all over any bad news stories about Iraq as "leftist Liberal reporting". I have great respect for Michael Ware and thought he did a very good job turning the tables, asking where conservatives are telling the story on the ground:
Quote:
HUGH HEWITT, CONSERVATIVE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Anderson, I think the coverage of the Iraq invasion right from the start, all of the way through to the present day, has been abysmal in the mainstream media.
I think that it goes back even further than that. In April of 2003, Eason Jordan, executive with this network, admitted that CNN had for years covered up atrocities that Saddam had committed because they were afraid for their reporters.
That history of bad coverage in Iraq began in the invasion when it was declared a quagmire on the third day because of the sandstorm and through all the three elections of last year.
A lot of new media that goes to Iraq, whether it's Michael Totten, whether it is Michael Yon, Bill Rosio (ph), whether it's Victor Davis Hanson or Laura Ingraham or especially Robert Kaplan, whose book "Imperial Grunts," is a must reading on this, report back enormous progress being made in the country. The sort of report that we simply never get because good reporters like the two I'm sharing this time with, do have to cover what Candy Crowley called, "The Boom." But just covering "The Boom," does not represent what is going on in that war.
COOPER: Nic Robertson, what do you think?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I do think that we're able to get to some of the good stories, if you will, power plants being built, water plants being refurbished -- covered those last week.
If you look at our coverage, Wednesday, the new parliament being formed, by everybody's assessment, political step forward. Good news by most people's assessment, yes.
We would have been derelict in our duty if we didn't report that there's still a lot of -- a long way to go before they actually form a government. That is a big issue.
The day after Operation Swarmer, touted as being a great shining example of how the new Iraqi army were performing. Covered that big time. I think we do get to the so-called good stories. But also there are the so-called bad stories that are a very important part of what's happening to this country. And we wouldn't be doing our job and we would be failing our audiences if we didn't -- if we didn't bring to them the stories that are relevant to how this is going to play out in the future.
I look back to the summer and fall of 2003 when we were covering stories about an insurgency. The military spokesman here at that time, was saying no, no, there isn't an insurgency. This is bad news. It proved we were proven correct.
COOPER: Michael Ware, you've spent probably more time with insurgents and insurgent groups than anyone I know. What do you think? Do you cover "The Boom" too much?
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME MAGAZINE": Well, I think it's a matter, Anderson, of trying to reflect the reality on the ground. That all of these critics who are saying that we're not telling the good news stories, I'd like to know just how many of them have spent any time here on the ground. Or any of these people who are reporting the good news from within the belly of the U.S. military, how much time have they spent on the Iraqi street? I mean, what do you think ordinary Iraqis are talking about? Do you think they're talking about the unfurling of the flag of democracy or that they're grateful that the Americans have unveiled a new electricity plant, when they have not had electricity in their house for four days. When they have to queue (ph) at a gas station for two days. When the marketplace is blowing up with car bombs. When their cousins are showing up dead in the morning as a result of sectarian death squads through the night. What do you think is the refining experience for an Iraqi family?
COOPER: Hugh Hewitt, what about that?
HEWITT: Well, I asked Michael Yon about that today. I tried to contact Mr. Ware in Baghdad from my radio show. We spent three hours on this. And Michael Yon simply disagrees with Mr. Ware. He's also spent a lot of time in the war zone, often with the military, sometimes without. Michael Totten's done the same, so as Robert Kaplan. So I think there are many, many people with on the ground experience, who simply reject what Mr. Ware is saying.
COOPER: Hugh, can I..
HEWITT: Important thing I think, though...
COOPER: OK.
HEWITT: ... is that it's not what's going on today alone. It's about the context. Because five years ago, you would not have the story of kidnapped people and torture that Eason Jordan referred to.
Five years ago we did not know what the quality of life for the Iraqis was. But it was a dismal, totalitarian regime, from which escape is not possible. And So while "The Boom" matters and while those conditions are certainly desperate in many parts of the country, and Baghdad is a dangerous place, compared to what, Mr. Ware? Compared to Baghdad under Saddam? Are you arguing that Iraqis are worse off today than they were four years ago?
COOPER: Michael Ware, do you want to respond?
WARE: Yes, well, I think if you asked a lot of Iraqis, I think you'd be surprised by what the answer is. A lot of them say, what, this is democracy? The judge (ph) is, you call this liberation? And, OK, let's look at the context, as you suggest. Let's look at the even bigger picture? What is the bigger picture? Who is winning from this war? Who is benefiting right now?
Well, the main winners so far are al Qaeda, which is stronger than it was before the invasion. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was a nobody. Now he's the superstar of international Jihad. And Iran, Iran essentially has a proxy government in place, a very, very friendly government. Its sphere of influence has expanded and any U.S. diplomat or seeing a military intelligence commander here, will tell you that. So that's the big picture. Where is that being reported?
I think that it goes back even further than that. In April of 2003, Eason Jordan, executive with this network, admitted that CNN had for years covered up atrocities that Saddam had committed because they were afraid for their reporters.
That history of bad coverage in Iraq began in the invasion when it was declared a quagmire on the third day because of the sandstorm and through all the three elections of last year.
A lot of new media that goes to Iraq, whether it's Michael Totten, whether it is Michael Yon, Bill Rosio (ph), whether it's Victor Davis Hanson or Laura Ingraham or especially Robert Kaplan, whose book "Imperial Grunts," is a must reading on this, report back enormous progress being made in the country. The sort of report that we simply never get because good reporters like the two I'm sharing this time with, do have to cover what Candy Crowley called, "The Boom." But just covering "The Boom," does not represent what is going on in that war.
COOPER: Nic Robertson, what do you think?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I do think that we're able to get to some of the good stories, if you will, power plants being built, water plants being refurbished -- covered those last week.
If you look at our coverage, Wednesday, the new parliament being formed, by everybody's assessment, political step forward. Good news by most people's assessment, yes.
We would have been derelict in our duty if we didn't report that there's still a lot of -- a long way to go before they actually form a government. That is a big issue.
The day after Operation Swarmer, touted as being a great shining example of how the new Iraqi army were performing. Covered that big time. I think we do get to the so-called good stories. But also there are the so-called bad stories that are a very important part of what's happening to this country. And we wouldn't be doing our job and we would be failing our audiences if we didn't -- if we didn't bring to them the stories that are relevant to how this is going to play out in the future.
I look back to the summer and fall of 2003 when we were covering stories about an insurgency. The military spokesman here at that time, was saying no, no, there isn't an insurgency. This is bad news. It proved we were proven correct.
COOPER: Michael Ware, you've spent probably more time with insurgents and insurgent groups than anyone I know. What do you think? Do you cover "The Boom" too much?
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME MAGAZINE": Well, I think it's a matter, Anderson, of trying to reflect the reality on the ground. That all of these critics who are saying that we're not telling the good news stories, I'd like to know just how many of them have spent any time here on the ground. Or any of these people who are reporting the good news from within the belly of the U.S. military, how much time have they spent on the Iraqi street? I mean, what do you think ordinary Iraqis are talking about? Do you think they're talking about the unfurling of the flag of democracy or that they're grateful that the Americans have unveiled a new electricity plant, when they have not had electricity in their house for four days. When they have to queue (ph) at a gas station for two days. When the marketplace is blowing up with car bombs. When their cousins are showing up dead in the morning as a result of sectarian death squads through the night. What do you think is the refining experience for an Iraqi family?
COOPER: Hugh Hewitt, what about that?
HEWITT: Well, I asked Michael Yon about that today. I tried to contact Mr. Ware in Baghdad from my radio show. We spent three hours on this. And Michael Yon simply disagrees with Mr. Ware. He's also spent a lot of time in the war zone, often with the military, sometimes without. Michael Totten's done the same, so as Robert Kaplan. So I think there are many, many people with on the ground experience, who simply reject what Mr. Ware is saying.
COOPER: Hugh, can I..
HEWITT: Important thing I think, though...
COOPER: OK.
HEWITT: ... is that it's not what's going on today alone. It's about the context. Because five years ago, you would not have the story of kidnapped people and torture that Eason Jordan referred to.
Five years ago we did not know what the quality of life for the Iraqis was. But it was a dismal, totalitarian regime, from which escape is not possible. And So while "The Boom" matters and while those conditions are certainly desperate in many parts of the country, and Baghdad is a dangerous place, compared to what, Mr. Ware? Compared to Baghdad under Saddam? Are you arguing that Iraqis are worse off today than they were four years ago?
COOPER: Michael Ware, do you want to respond?
WARE: Yes, well, I think if you asked a lot of Iraqis, I think you'd be surprised by what the answer is. A lot of them say, what, this is democracy? The judge (ph) is, you call this liberation? And, OK, let's look at the context, as you suggest. Let's look at the even bigger picture? What is the bigger picture? Who is winning from this war? Who is benefiting right now?
Well, the main winners so far are al Qaeda, which is stronger than it was before the invasion. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was a nobody. Now he's the superstar of international Jihad. And Iran, Iran essentially has a proxy government in place, a very, very friendly government. Its sphere of influence has expanded and any U.S. diplomat or seeing a military intelligence commander here, will tell you that. So that's the big picture. Where is that being reported?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,029 
March 22nd, 2006, 10:38 AM
The Media/MSM in Iraq don't show it all, there is good going on in Iraq and they don't show it.
The internet the best source from what's going on in Iraq the good and the bad. These are just a few, there are many more showing the good and the bad in Iraq and this is what more people are using to base their opinions on Iraq rather then the Media/MSM.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/
http://www.iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
The Media/MSM in Iraq don't show it all, there is good going on in Iraq and they don't show it.
The internet the best source from what's going on in Iraq the good and the bad. These are just a few, there are many more showing the good and the bad in Iraq and this is what more people are using to base their opinions on Iraq rather then the Media/MSM.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/
http://www.iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Ever since,the quality of newsreporting has lessened.
March 22nd, 2006, 11:54 AM
Whenever bad news is presented the right want it to be a debate about the media. It's a smoke and mirrors show. I would put Michael Ware's credibility ahead of that Hewiit guy sitting by his Arkansas pool, or wherever the hell he is. Most journalist have stuck to military embedded surroundings. Ware has put his life on the line in Iraq, more than anyone else, to see what's going on. He has gone to insurgent camps. His observations, i.e. the big picture, pack more credibility than a bunch of guys playing with Dow stocks on their computers, or bloggers pledging allegiance to Bush.
Whenever bad news is presented the right want it to be a debate about the media. It's a smoke and mirrors show. I would put Michael Ware's credibility ahead of that Hewiit guy sitting by his Arkansas pool, or wherever the hell he is. Most journalist have stuck to military embedded surroundings. Ware has put his life on the line in Iraq, more than anyone else, to see what's going on. He has gone to insurgent camps. His observations, i.e. the big picture, pack more credibility than a bunch of guys playing with Dow stocks on their computers, or bloggers pledging allegiance to Bush.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,273 
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
March 22nd, 2006, 12:20 PM
Quoting
None of mainstream American media does anything except what they are told to report, you're suggestion that Aaron Brown and the survile stupid childish TV sitcoms you mentioned were news is absurd they were not and are not, they were and are paid advertisment vehicles for the corporatocrasy, that anyone could portray what has and is happening in Iraq in a positive light is indicative of the low level of awareness our western world accepts as factual, and the horse**** we as a matter of course accept as truth and news is sick.
CNN sucks they axed good shows Talk Back Live, CrossFire and they axed Aaron Brown for that dweeb Anderson Cooper. 
Now they have "The Situation Room"
Now they have "The Situation Room"
Clever Clogs
Posts: 651
March 22nd, 2006, 12:21 PM
The American gov. learned one thing from their experience in Viet Nam. They cannot win a war if they do not control the Media. Thus the embedding and the vetting of stories. The heavy pressure on the media mogels and the restrictions of access to the sitting President. The myth of the 'liberal press' and the killing of independent journalists by American forces in the war zone.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt
The American gov. learned one thing from their experience in Viet Nam. They cannot win a war if they do not control the Media. Thus the embedding and the vetting of stories. The heavy pressure on the media mogels and the restrictions of access to the sitting President. The myth of the 'liberal press' and the killing of independent journalists by American forces in the war zone.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,273
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
March 22nd, 2006, 12:25 PM
Quoting
ITN I asked you about your heros once and you provided a short list of fairly good people,all deceased, I have been unable to discern whom or what you consider an accurate source about contemporary events.
I personally put no faith in blogs. It could be anyone.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,273
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
March 22nd, 2006, 12:31 PM
constructed boogeyman.
Quoting
Thats the way it is PP2, the media mogels don't need much pressure though because to a man they are part of the ruling corporatocrasy,I get a great kick out of the **** heaped on the liberal left media in the states, it's an enemy of real Americans that does not exist, a complete
The American gov. learned one thing from their experience in Viet Nam. They cannot win a war if they do not control the Media. Thus the embedding and the vetting of stories. The heavy pressure on the media mogels and the restrictions of access to the sitting President. The myth of the 'liberal press' and the killing of independent journalists by American forces in the war zone.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt
constructed boogeyman.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,029
March 22nd, 2006, 12:41 PM
Not all bloggers pledge allegiance to Bush as you call it, infact there are many Liberal Bloggers just as much as Conservative Bloggers out there giving both points of view on Iraq and everything else.
There's also websites from the right and left who offer their views such as Michelle Malkin, Sean Hannity, Moveon.org, the Daily Kos.
When former Iraq War Vet Paul Hackett was stabbed in the back by the Democrats, Liberal Bloggers and websites were pissed right off while the MSM didn't show that point of view. When Bush had the port deals mess going on the same thing happen, Conservative Bloggers and websites were pissed off while the MSM didn't show that point of view.
What this comes down to is both sides don't rely on the MSM as much for their news anymore because of the internet.
Quoting
Michael Yon was embeded with a U.S. Army Unit and he gave their point of from Iraq.
Whenever bad news is presented the right want it to be a debate about the media. It's a smoke and mirrors show. I would put Michael Ware's credibility ahead of that Hewiit guy sitting by his Arkansas pool, or wherever the hell he is. Most journalist have stuck to military embedded surroundings. Ware has put his life on the line in Iraq, more than anyone else, to see what's going on. He has gone to insurgent camps. His observations, i.e. the big picture, pack more credibility than a bunch of guys playing with Dow stocks on their computers, or bloggers pledging allegiance to Bush.
Not all bloggers pledge allegiance to Bush as you call it, infact there are many Liberal Bloggers just as much as Conservative Bloggers out there giving both points of view on Iraq and everything else.
There's also websites from the right and left who offer their views such as Michelle Malkin, Sean Hannity, Moveon.org, the Daily Kos.
When former Iraq War Vet Paul Hackett was stabbed in the back by the Democrats, Liberal Bloggers and websites were pissed right off while the MSM didn't show that point of view. When Bush had the port deals mess going on the same thing happen, Conservative Bloggers and websites were pissed off while the MSM didn't show that point of view.
What this comes down to is both sides don't rely on the MSM as much for their news anymore because of the internet.
