Britain say "NO!" to self-rule for England.

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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The dirty Celts get their own way again after the British Government tells the English that they can't have their own Parliament - despite the fact that the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish each have their own.

This isn't the first time that the British have treated the English unfairly -


No to England 'self-rule'


By DAVID WOODING
Whitehall Editor

ENGLAND will never get a parliament while Labour is in office, a minister vowed yesterday.

Lord Chancellor Charles Falconer said the move would break up the UK — despite the Scots and Welsh having their own assemblies.

Lord Falconer, a Scot (of course), said: “Devolution strengthens the union. English votes for English issues would wreck it.”

He also dismissed Tory calls to ban Scots and Welsh MPs voting at Westminster on issues that affect only England.

Tory Shadow constitutional affairs secretary Oliver Heald said the refusal would “stoke up profound dissatisfaction in England”.

Scotland gets an extra £8billion a year funding — £1,000 per head more than voters south of the border, who foot the bill.

Of 59 Scots MPs 41 are Labour. They voted last year to impose £3,000-a-year tuition fees on students in England - but not on their own.

They also imposed foundation hospitals on England while rejecting them back home.


thesun.co.uk
 

Blackleaf

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The Sunday Times March 12, 2006


Self-rule for Sassenachs is a dead duck
Jenny Hjul (An Englishwoman living in Scotland, which has its own parliament)



There will not be an English parliament, “not today, not tomorrow”, proclaimed Lord Falconer, the lord chancellor, as if he were nipping a dangerous separatist movement in the bud. Speaking at a conference on devolution on Friday, the Scottish peer, who is also constitutional secretary, stood firm against the forces of federalism.

However, apart from the Campaign for an English Parliament, a pressure group which regards Scots as foreigners, there is no clamour for a devolved England. Unless the place has undergone a dramatic transformation since I was last there, the English are as bored by talk of constitutional change as they were in the run-up to devolution in Scotland and Wales.

Now, as then, opinion polls indicate that the English tolerate Scottish and Welsh devolution. But they don’t want England to be “compensated” by having their country chopped up into a bunch of bureaucratic, soulless regions. Even the ballot for a regional assembly in the northeast of England where there really is a local identity was overwhelmingly rejected in 2004 by 78% of those who voted, despite (or because of) John Prescott’s endeavours.

The affection for the union persists (north and south of the border); south of the Tweed so does an attachment to the status quo. In fact, as befits the bigger country, England lacks a national inferiority complex about its neighbours and, according to another of the speakers at the devolution conference, Professor Robert Hazel from University College London, is “pretty relaxed and generous towards Scotland and Wales”. Pretty generous, too, with Scots receiving proportionately more per head than the English from the Treasury.

Scottish predictions (rife when 30 Scottish MPs voted for a ban on fox hunting in England) that devolution would result in a southern backlash have failed to materialise. Rumblings about a Scottish Raj in the British cabinet turned out to be more of a conversation opener than a serious complaint and apathy or indifference to the Jocks is more common than positive dislike.

As an English incomer to Scotland I have experienced no resentment from friends either in London or in Edinburgh, no mutual hatred and only the occasional chippiness on the part of some Scots. Maybe that’s because the advantages said to be enjoyed by the Scots post-home rule are mostly a fiction. The poor performance of public services despite massive increases in spending has been a big disappointment. The well-documented discrepancies between the Scottish and English health systems reflect badly on devolution, as do Scotland’s unreformed comprehensive schools.

A think tank of academics goes as far as saying that devolution has left Scotland lagging behind England. Economic growth has been weaker in Scotland in the seven years since devolution, and there is a “perverse tendency” to let England take the lead. Scottish decision-makers, says the government-backed Economic and Social Research Council, are wedded to old Labour policies on public services compared with their more innovative English counterparts. Why indeed would the English begrudge the Scots their slower business start-up rate, their ever burgeoning bureaucracy, their swollen public sector?


Nor does the resurgence in English self-identification and awareness in the wake of devolution to Scotland and Wales strike me, in my Scottish fastness, as overbearing. The flag-waving of the St George’s Cross has only been slightly more vigorous. Love of England by the English has not been noticeably strengthened or weakened by devolution. In categorically ruling out an English parliament “in any kind of future”, Falconer has shot a paper tiger.

That said, why should the English continue to put up with Scottish and Welsh MPs voting on English-only issues at Westminster? Falconer argues that all matters at Westminster “impact on the union” and were therefore pertinent to all MPs, but this is not the case.

There have been some glaring examples where Scottish MPs have had their say on policies that will not apply in Scotland. The vote at Westminster to ban smoking in England was taken by all MPs, although Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland had already made their own decisions. Scottish MPs helped the government push through university top-up fees and foundation hospitals but the Scottish parliament is implacably opposed to both measures. This week Tony Blair’s controversial education reforms will probably win approval at last, with the backing of stalwart Scottish MPs, whose own constituents will not be affected.

When Labour had a big majority and depended less on loyal Scots at Westminster, the flaws of the devolved settlement were not so obvious. Now the constant presence of the “do as I say but not as I do” Scottish MPs offends the English sense of fair play and irks nearly all Scottish politicians outside the Labour party. Whenever public opinion has been tested in Scotland, voters too have believed it is unfair for Scottish MPs to influence English legislation.

However, Blair will not ban Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland MPs from voting on matters that don’t directly concern them, saying that creating “two classes of MPs” will get parliament “into all sorts of problems”. He forgets that problems exist: they need to be addressed. The simplest solution would be for Scottish MPs to withdraw during English-only debates.

This may cause confusion to begin with and sometimes it will be genuinely difficult to distinguish between those things that are purely English and those that have an indirect bearing on Scotland, such as university top-up fees. But the Scottish Nationalists and the lone Scottish Tory MP (David Mundell) have already adopted this self-denying ordinance and it doesn’t tie them in too many knots.

Is it conceivable that Scotland’s Labour group would quietly do the same, perhaps in a few months after the education bill has passed on to the statute books, and thereby resolve the West Lothian question once and for all, by convention rather than law?

Not a chance! Soon there will be a new, unmistakeably Scottish, prime minister’s majority to uphold. Stand by for more blather about Britishness, not self-rule for the Sassenachs.

thetimesonline.co.uk

This woman doesn't realise that the English want an English parliament for all of England, and that's why they rejected the idea of each region of England (of which there are about 9 in total) having its own parliament. The English just want ONE parliament, just like the Taffs and Jocks do.
 

Finder

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Dec 18, 2005
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Hmmm can the English give themselves, self rule, or do they keep exploting themselves under there own imperial hand. The end of the empire when the empire doesn't want to be ruled by the empire. lmao.

Maybe the UK should become the UR? United Republics. =-D Though I don't want Ireland to be one of the Republics, my people do better alone. =-D
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
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RE: Britain say "NO!" to

what your forgetting finder is that it was a scot who enacted the act of union, not an englishman...it is a scotsman who is in power at the moment, and another scotsman wants his power.

The palace of westminister might be in london, but the power is firmly in the hands of the scots......have no doubt about that....and WHY shouldnt england have self rule?.....It REALLY REALLY irritates me when ppl say we were the imperialists.......the royals and the nobility are generaly from german accent, and the scots were more viralent in wanting an empire than we ever were.


NOPE: GIVE ME FREEDOM OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!

and can we have a George Cross mod.?
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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I am not an expert on parliamentary practices in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but would it ever be conceived that they could perhaps create "Provinces" in order to retain the one main Parliament, with smaller legislatures?
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Finder said:
Hmmm can the English give themselves, self rule, or do they keep exploting themselves under there own imperial hand. The end of the empire when the empire doesn't want to be ruled by the empire. lmao.

Maybe the UK should become the UR? United Republics. =-D Though I don't want Ireland to be one of the Republics, my people do better alone. =-D

The UK shouldn't become a Republic. We don't want to end up like the Frogs or the Yanks.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: Britain say "NO!" to

Daz_Hockey said:
what your forgetting finder is that it was a scot who enacted the act of union, not an englishman...it is a scotsman who is in power at the moment, and another scotsman wants his power.

The palace of westminister might be in london, but the power is firmly in the hands of the scots......have no doubt about that....and WHY shouldnt england have self rule?.....It REALLY REALLY irritates me when ppl say we were the imperialists.......the royals and the nobility are generaly from german accent, and the scots were more viralent in wanting an empire than we ever were.


NOPE: GIVE ME FREEDOM OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!!

and can we have a George Cross mod.?

I agree with you there. Foreigners love to say that the English rule the Scots, even though NO nation in the UK should rule the other (just as California doesn't rule Nevada) although the Scots are massively imperialistic (who do you think built the British Empire?) and so Scotland rules England despite England having a population about 10 times bigger than Scotland.

Tony Blair is a Scotsman. Our soon-to-be PM, Gordon Brown, is as Scottish as haggis, deep-fried Mars Bars, men in skirts and drunkenness. Our defence secretary, John Reid, is a Scot. England is ruled by Scotland and it needs to get its independence.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
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Re: RE: Britain say "NO!" to

Blackleaf said:
England is ruled by Scotland and it needs to get its independence.

Well, of course the Scots will eventually give the English their independence, when they show they're able to handle it. :lol:
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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I know the Scots can't handle devolution.

For each of the 7 years since devolution, England's economy has outperformed that of Scotland.

The Scots can't perform well when they aren't able to suckle from mummy's teats as much as they used to.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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England is ruled by the Scottish Raj. It’s about time us English stood up for our great country before it constitutionally disappears.

Letters to The Sun from readers -


HOW dare an unelected Scot tell England what we can or cannot have?

The Lord Chancellor’s statements that devolution strengthens the union and English votes for English issues would wreck it are bizarre indeed.

Until England gets equality the union is in more danger.

KEVIN WELLS
Deal, Kent

NOW we have it officially from Lord Falconer: England’s taxpayers have to pay to allow Scotland and Wales to introduce all the freebies for their inhabitants that are denied the English.

Will someone explain to Tony Blair this is a racist action by the Labour Government?

BRENDA EAGLES
Doncaster, South Yorks

WE may as well shut the Palace of Westminster and run the whole show from north of the border. England is ruled by the Scottish Raj. It’s about time us English stood up for our great country before it constitutionally disappears.

BARBARA GARNER
Eastbourne, East Sussex

SO a parliament is OK for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but not England? Has anyone thought of asking the English what they think?

LUKE MAGEE
Ashford, Kent

THE Scots and Welsh do not want to be ruled by the English but they have our taxes. What do we get in return? Useless MPs like Blair, John Reid and Charles Kennedy to name a few.

ANTHONY WOOLEY
Stoke-on-Trent

LORD FALCONER is pompous to declare that Labour will never give England her own parliament. One day the English will realise they are being governed by the Scots, and they will send them packing in the manner of all colonial governments.

COLIN MARTIN
Woodford Green, Essex

WE can’t have our own parliament in England but Scotland and Wales can, and while their politicians can vote on our issues we can’t vote on theirs.

Come on, at least give us a level playing field.

LOUISE WOODS
Sheffield

WHY all the fuss about England having its own parliament?

The real rulers sit in Brussels and our politicians are mere henchmen entrusted with applying EU law.

TONY LAWSON
Burnley, Lancs

THE Scots and Welsh have their own assemblies and taxes. But they also receive billions from our taxes just to keep them sweet. This is Labour’s idea of togetherness?

ROY FARNDEN
Chessington, Surrey

THE Race Relations Act forbids discrimination against other nationalities. The English will not tolerate this discrimination. We will get our parliament.

ANDREW COOPER
Wakefield, West Yorks

WHY shouldn’t the English have a parliament? Fair’s fair. Whether people would want one is another matter.

The parliament most Scottish big hitters such as Gordon Brown didn’t want to be part of has been a costly waste of cash that has added millions on to the taxes people in Scotland pay. Why would England want that?

JENNY THOMSON
Millport, Ayrshire