neallo said:
i think its about time us humanist unite and share our ideas of a better and just world. i do not follow any religion, other than my human ideals. i do belive it's about time we make a human code and move away from religion as being a main factor in life. life should be about living it the best that one can, while ensuring that the human race survives. i find that all religions are the same and that neither one is better than the other.
...
Not to cut you off but I find the above to be very strange. Some of your rules are, well, quite obvious but have to be defined down to the level of someone slipping on a sidewalk or anywhere else, on public or private property -- if "humanists" agree with the concept of private property.
Can it be assumed that "humanists" agree with the concept of privately (as opposed to only publicly) owned property?
The answer to that is where you have to start, to figure out whether you're "hardline" communist or "hardline" capitalist or somewhere in between and where and why.
There is no "we" in Toronto, let alone the "GTA thing" (whatever it's supposed to be other than a label created by politicians for no apparent reason), or "Ontario thing" or "Canada thing."
That might be somewhere to start. One cannot truly be Martian without living on Mars. We don't have the ability to live on Mars as yet, so there is no point (other than as a curiousity) in claiming to be Martian and I find the same to be the case around "humanism" because it is totally impossible with boundless limits as "humans" while we exist in a world of political jurisdictions with "democracies" that are sick jokes and particularly in the Torontos, whatever the "GTA thing" is supposed to be, the Ontarios is so irrelevant to anyone in Toronto that China might as well be discussed and then what?
Mars? Living in Space, living on the Moon? Boundaries have to be set (no, it's not "thinking in a box" it's reality ... which leads to how to make it not reality to even begin to discuss some boundless "humanism" ... other than going after religions, but good luck with that in the U.S. alone; what are your proposals and how do you intend to implement them? Or in most of the rural Canadas or in one of the most, certainly in North America, the most ethnically, culturally [including sub-cultures], religiously, economically diverse cities around: Toronto and throw in the Vancouver region, but Miami then San Fransisco come in 2nd and 3rd in the North Americas and around Miami it's not diverse, it's almost totally Hispanic) before any discussion of a new world, as is, as you've described above, has a hope of trying to accomplish anything.
"I have a dream..." and such. Go ahead and dream but reality is reality and sound plans on changing reality (like around wearing seatbelts, not driving a motor-vehicle impaired, with many, many ways to be impaired including by the weather, which is a reality we do not have control over, as yet and maybe "the human race" will someday but if so, it'll cost plenty of money and those with the money will be able to control whatever aspects of the weather and those without money will not; which leads to another reality and how do you intend to address even that much?).
It's not at all to "shoot anyone down" for trying and we are what we murder (or sub-contract out to do for us) and ingest to stay alive and the "rich" countries aren't doing very well around that, to say the least, while tens of thousands of people die every single day for the lack of
one potato.
We're too self-involved, perhaps not you/whomever and I, but for the most part, the real populations of rich countries don't think twice about paying $5 or more at Starbucks or whatever, for a latte, ice cream, good luck getting into a movie with $5, good luck getting to the grocery store and back in Toronto with only $5, with transfers you cannot use to backtrack and before the new fare hikes that are kicking in April 1, it's $2.50 each way and if you only had to ride a bus/streetcar/subway for 10 minutes to pick up a prescription or whatever that took you 5 minutes in lines, 15 minutes, it depends on how long the lines are around everything, shopping, banking, whatever, then hop back on a bus/streetcar/subway to get back home you have to spend $5.
What's the "humanist" view on that? Why do Montreal and Vancouver have better service with lower fares when the TTC is the most efficient transit system in North America, with 75% of its total operating expenses coming right out of the fare boxes?
It's unheard of. The usual is less than 50% (right in the "GTA thing"), and 25% around cities the size of Toronto, with municipal, provincial/state and federal taxes paying for the rest.
Montreal and Vancouver (and everything else outside the Ontarios) actually get a good share of their own revenues back (or far more) from their own revenues paid out, from their provincial governments and via those, the confederates with the mess of "transfer systems."
Toronto gets zero back from either, that means anything (less than $100 million this fiscal year while over $11,000 million was not stolen but simply not returned in any "humanist/socialist/Canadiana" fair share of our own revenues per capita back, last fiscal year and another $1.1 billion is leaving Toronto this fiscal year and not even the decimal point, not even $100 million of those revenues are going back to Toronto City Hall this fiscal year), which is what caused and keeps causing less in public goods and services in Toronto and more tax increases, so less "humanism" (potatoes, rice, whatever; how can we be humanists while allowing tens of thousands of humans to DIE every day due to the lack of a single potato, let alone the rest of the problems, and while it happens right in Toronto?) while also being plundered of municipal revenues?
There are such things as "Ontario" Social Services, which includes many things besides Ontario Works workfare, not welfare, like "Ontario" Housing.
All municipal property taxes zoned as commercial/industrial in Toronto are taken by the "Ontario" feds, leaving municipal residential property taxes, traffic tickets and other municipal fines, which the "Ontario" feds also raid.
The Toronto Police Service out-mans the Canadian Army; but only manages to cover 1 in 50 or so in Toronto, while NYC, Chicago, whatever, Vancouver, anything has 1 COP per 25 or so people. In Toronto, the whole thing, not even for starters, is paid for out of what's left of municipal
residential property taxes.
But whatever 20% of the expenditures on "Ontario" Social Services happens to be is taken by the "Ontario" feds out of what Toronto City Hall happens to have in residential municipal property taxes.
And ... there is no such thing as "Ontario" Social Services in Toronto. Just Toronto Social Services (under the dictatorship of the "Ontario" feds), Toronto Housing and so forth, everything in Toronto has to be paid for out what's left of the municipal residential property taxes the "Ontario" feds don't steal.
And the confederate feds collect the most revenues from the Toronto area than from any other province (including the rest of the Ontarios) than from any other "province" in the Canadas, but they don't pay for their statutes/dictatorship around the still singular international airport Toronto has (how many does Montreal have?), the ridiculous confederate Toronto Port Authority that they pay nothing into but dictate over, and Toronto Police Service marine units have to patrol the "federal" waters in Lake Ontario off Toronto and the Ontario Provincial Police marine units (and other municipal or regional) law enforcement elsewhere in alleged "federal" jurisdiction.
How many potatoes could be bought (rice, whatever) for $5? Why does it cost half in Montreal, with a better public transit system and nowhere near 75% of its total operating expenses coming right out of fare boxes? It's not even socialist let alone whatever "humanist" is.
A good Samaritan must first earn the means to be generous.
The poor cannot help the poor. Any humanist, socialist, communist, whatever, has to take that into account unless some entirely new system is being proposed and if so, what is it and how does it work?
Dreams are not good enough.
To be humanist in the Canadas the first step is to dump the mess of "transfer systems" that do nothing but penalize economic success to the point of strangulation, certainly around here, to reward failure with zero accountability, far less than zero common sense and insults in results, with 100 years to prove it in Spades.
Does being "humanist" involve removing all necessity, the mother of all invention? What's the big plan? Who/what is going to ever invent anything with no necessity? It's why these "federation" are such an unbelievable mess.
neallo said:
i also find that religion seperates us into groups, which then spawn loyalty to ones religion, then all it takes is one bad apple to corrupt its followers and do their bidding. (from crusades to suicide bombings, i havent heard of any cleric becoming a suicide bomber). i also find that religion deprives us some of the greatest things in life: Can't eat meat on Friday? Can't eat pork at all?
Religion is also the cause 90% if not all wars. i also find it funny that when religion was the policy maker in europe, it was known as the Dark Ages.
And what about political "families?" Which church declared World Wars I and II or the Korean ... "police action" or the or the Vietnam Wars, particularly with the USSR around, where religion was banned, but tolerated when useful, as usual these days, because religious organizations called politicians in "parties" took over long ago. They're all akin to organized crime families (and big religious organizations ... and labor unions and professional guilds and everything else that ends up with too much power and what is "too much" in the humanist manifesto, around what and why? There is no Manifesto and you certainly don't claim so; it's just food for thought because it has to be at least a Manifesto to convince anyone that it means anything; in reality) in structure, complete with Godfathers, Enforcers, Lieutenants (not the pawns we vote for; or don't, who are appointed/coronated by "the party") and election circus marketing act campaigns ... go to it trying to get a real job with that insane "reality."
Religion is way ahead of the medieval churches of the "Ontario" and confederate feds/politicians who claim to know, and prove every second of every day that they know nothing about Toronto and the example it sets for the entire world.
2.6 million people live in the "municipality" of Toronto and sorry, but you have to be free of
all forms of discrimination to claim to be what you outline. The United Church of Canada, the largest group of Protestants in the Canadas, not any government, is what started marrying same-sex couples and a Google of:
+"same-sex marriage" +canada
...will turn up just about everything you need to know about tolerance (and lack thereof on all levels, not just around religion) in whatever this "Canada thing" is supposed to be; as is.
The dinosaurs to be rid of around here are the "Ontario" and confederate feds; not religions.
Religious organizations hold Toronto together, without bias, without predjudice (you'll certainly find it; but not quite the same as elsewhere in the world around a city this size) along with corporations -- not governments.
Governments are, if we're going to go anywhere near claiming "humanism" in these country alone, far beyond extinct, far beyond worthless and they all have to go -- as does the medieval "structure" of the "GTA thing" let alone some "Ontario thing" let alone some "Canada thing."
Those are the rules that have to be addressed first. And no confederate is the answer unless it's got a majority and is proposing a total rewrite on the Canadas and leaving it up to communities to work out, with guidelines in a loose union constitution that at the very least turns the Canadas into a republic, dumps the 900 year-old parliamentary insults to the word "systems" let alone "democracy" (elected majority dictatorships, but it's much worse than that, there's far more to it than that alone),
total electoral reform starting with no political organizations of any sort given that they're worse than organized religion, no political advertising of any sort around elections, just sit down, shut up and answer questions from the (redefined) stakeholders in public interrogations; I mean job interviews, which the "media" can only report verbatim once the public interviews start.
We have to have separate Executive and Legislative branches or no one gets real representation and arbitration is what we need to patch this mess up, more than "representation" which only tends to divide and more and more per every election that occurs: Certainly around here.
neallo said:
This is what i have so far for the human code.
1. Ensure that the human race survives.
How? And what is "the human race" as some singularity that will agree about anything? Go ahead and somehow try to ban religion and it'll do as much (zero) as every other ban on anything has ever done.
People have beliefs and ignorance is the source of every problem on the planet. But whose "wisdom" is the correct wisdom? And why and how does anyone intend to claim so without being fascist?
Is fascsism humanism? It would have to be with any singular point-of-view about anything. "We're right, you're wrong." And how are you going to
pay for, enforce this survival of the human race?
We are the most violent, disgusting, destructive things that this planet has ever
seen. "Humanism" and the statement above proves it. But it also proves Nature, which is extremely violent and amounts to total chaos.
Go ahead and dream otherwise but reality is reality. Capitalism mimics our true nature, which is why it's so successful.
Is it "humanist" to have zero choice but to murder other life forms to survive? It's Nature and even if there were a "we" around humans, "we" did not create Nature.
So where are the lines drawn around being "humanists?" Do we kill everything so that we can survive and if we do, then what do we murder and ingest to survive but ourselves?
It sounds quite religious to claim that humans have the right to survive period. Nature is doing everything it can to destroy the cancer we are on this planet. We are a mistake and we are doing nothing but killing this planet; so we should be eliminated.
And will be. Good luck taking whatever Nature is on.
neallo said:
Do not kill another human, unless they are a traitor to the human race.
Agreed. But why only murder? What about grabbing someone else's 8 year-old kid, torturing and raping it? What about taking a beloved family pet, member of the family for all intents and purposes (or more when it means "food") and skinning it alive for entertainment and/or profit?
What about being traitors to the PLANET?
neallo said:
3. Do not steal from other humans.
We already have laws against that and everything else above. The penalties are quite severe in many societies (go steal a loaf of bread in Saudi Arabia ... you're supporting religion again, because it doesn't come from nowhere) but it all still goes on anyway.
What about stealing from a .hore? How can one
not steal from a .hore, not a ho.oker or prostitute but a human .hore? It's the oldest profession around and no monetary compensation can ever make up for what "whores" have to deal with and particularly if they "get caught" by our glorious "justice systems."
But if you want to fix anything you need money for it and plenty of it to put the smallest dent on what humans really are on this planet.
Is the sex trade stealing or is it profiting? It depends on what the words are based on and by whom. Scum "say we" but "we" have failed to do a single thing about it, it's just managing to start getting into the media a bit; Sex Slave$ on the
Passionate Eye was nothing compared to reality. No 8 year-olds were being sold off on the
Passionate Eye for the few people who might have seen it. Amnesty International is about the only thing around that knows rel reality: not the crap we bitch about.
What is the sex trade, just as the most blatant example around (carving kids, whatever "human garbage" up for their organs to sell is a more frowned upon; unless someone needs the organ(s) or someone that someone (not no one) cares about does; with the usual cluelessness/ignorance as to reality on this planet) and what about murdering, stealing from (it's a very broad category unless you want to use religious books to define "stealing") a homeless person?
Everyone who is homeless, is that way because they woke up one day and said, "I am going to become a homeless person henceforth" and hundreds of them die from INCOMPETENT NEGLIGENCE on our part (not really; the part of "politicians" but we bypass them in Toronto because they should all be strung up on flagpoles) allowing someone to freeze to death when plenty of heated public buildings can take them in?
We should get enough of our own revenues back to deal with shelters properly in the cities but we do not and religious organizations do open their doors to the unknown numbers of homeless people in Toronto, and their wallets, as do corporations. Governments are so far less than worthless around here that it's the first thing any alleged "humanist" should be studying.
And there is plenty to study.
neallo said:
4. Respect your fellows humans.
How? And with whose version of what "respect" means based on what? What does "respect" mean if the facsist rules above are in place? Whose version of respect and based on what with what organizational structure and enforcement of this "respect"?
neallo said:
5. Unity is key to our survival.
Except for around whatever you think religion means? It's food for thought, all of it, and nothing more. And it's not something I've put much thought into because I have to deal with reality.
Do we cancel all sporting events? They're just a reflection of what we are, which varies from "we to we." Should all competition of all sorts be canceled and how is that going to work given what we truly are?
You can see it in "civilized" sporting events, let alone outside boardrooms where no minutes are being taken ... and we still have men's and women's washrooms (which don't really serve as such), let alone private clubs and other private property on which we steal from
everyone.
A sucker is born every second nowadays and there can be no unity until everyone knows exactly the same things about everything (leaving no way to capitalize, no suckers, no one who is above anyone else) because we're all brainwashed automatons who all believe the same things on every single level to every extreme of every single issue.
All plateware has to be the same, we all have to agree which species we will murder and consume to put on the plateware (or we die), we all have to wear the same clothing, which means controlling the weather completely so that it can be done, and it goes on and on and on and on.
"Unity" around what? Leave it open as you did above as some "code/law" and you're right back to who dictates what it means and enforces it and how.
What would you call that? I'd call it facsism.
neallo said:
6. Always strive for the greater glory of human race.
Write it down in legal format. What is the "greater glory" of the worst things that this planet has ever seen other than to go extinct (no choice) before we kill the planet?
The "greater glory" of the little tribes we truly are means murdering those who have a different version of whatever you happen to mean by "greater glory" (which sounds extremely religious) and also has to be enforced, so how do you enforce it?
neallo said:
7. Everyone is born equal, no one is above or below one another.
So who pays for it? Everyone is not born equal, it's reality. Many people are born with defects, as "we" define defects, but being born with no brain, arms, legs, sex organs is a defect because nature is viscious, nature is not kind, and humans are the least kind of any species on this planet.
What other species murders (a very broad term; we're just too stupid to know what death means as with everything else; we are stupid apes with a great deal of arrogance who think quite highly of ourselves; but reality proves otherwise) its own species for no reason?
Humans and our closest ancestors, Reeses Monkeys. They murder others of their kind for no reason. Chimps and such murder their own species and EAT them; because that is the way of this world. You must murder and ingest other life forms (unless you're a non-carnivorous plant, but plenty of violence goes in in the plant world) to survive.
Reeses Monkeys murder for no apparent reason other than to murder one another. They stomp on the dead bodies of their "foes" and do not EAT them OR claim their territory. They wander off leaving the nutrients for other species to consume; which is exactly what we do most of the time, in reality and/or out of negligent incompetence; because we don't CARE.
Name the strange humans throughout our rather short history on this planet and you will invariably end up with religious people.
Anthony Robbins and the like, "inspirational speakers" who profit wildly from doing so do not count. You have to decide to "help your fellow wo/man" for no apparent reason; no career advancement, likely no reward but torture and death, to be a total
freak of a human.
Name them. If someone trips down the stairs outside Union Station in Toronto and anyone bothers to slow down, as opposed to the usual of zero time, bills to pay, other humans to impress to pay the bills, getting to work on time, let alone stopping and rendering assistance they are HEROES. And are rare and are usually not from here.
Humans must first identify themselves as what they are, in reality not as Martians, before "humanism" can possibly mean anything.
neallo said:
i would like to read your opinions.
It's a first for me trying to address such a bizarre and rather massively broad subject but I see nothing above that is not already law in Toronto. Laws just don't always work out due to our nature, but if anything is an example of SO many ethnic groups/cultures, sub-cultures, religions, wildly different socio-economic groups, in a real city, getting along quite reasonably well, it's Toronto.
Commence the usual venom-spitting based on total obliviousness out there to prove your "humanism" and lack of knowledge, as usual. Or not. I'm a realist, and know quite a lot about it. But I don't exist in a box, it's quite impossible in Toronto and could post the lyrics to
Imagine by John Lennon ... and still end up with reality to deal with. Today, tomorrow, and probably for another 3,000 or so years at least, if "we" manage to smarten up and exist for that blink of an eye.
