Interesting: Iran and Holocaust cartoons

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Iran rejects accusations it inflamed violence over prophet caricatures
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

at 15:31 on February 12, 2006, EST.
By NASSER KARIMI


An injured Palestinian is helped after he was wounded by a live bullet in the legs during clashes with Israeli troops in the village of Azun, near the West Bank town of Qalqilya Sunday. (AP/Nasser Ishtayeh)
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran on Sunday rejected U.S. and Danish accusations that it has inflamed and encouraged violent protests over caricatures of Islam's Prophet Muhammad and demanded an apology, saying it could reduce growing tension. Iran was responding to comments by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said Wednesday: "Iran and Syria have gone out of their way to inflame sentiments and to use this to their own purposes."

Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi singled out Rice's comments and also said Denmark should apologize to help calm the furor that has broken out over the images that first appeared in a Danish newspaper four months ago.

"What happened was a natural reaction. Rice and Danish officials should apologize. Such comments could worsen the situation and an apology could alleviate the tension," Asefi said.

He spoke a day before one of Iran's largest newspapers was to open a contest seeking caricatures of the Holocaust. Hamshahri newspaper said it wanted to test whether the West extends its principle of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide as it did to the caricatures of Islam's prophet, deemed unacceptable in Islam.

Islam widely holds that representations of the prophet are banned for fear they could lead to idolatry.

Flemming Rose, the Danish editor behind the publication of the caricatures, had said he would consider running the Holocaust drawings in Jyllands-Posten but was later overruled by his editor.

While many of the protests over the Muhammad caricatures have been peaceful, Danish and other European diplomatic missions were attacked by demonstrators last week in Syria, Lebanon and Iran. Nearly a dozen people also were killed in protests in Afghanistan.


On Sunday, Rice was asked on ABC television to give evidence that Iran and Syria had incited the demonstrations, and she pointed to the fact that little happens in the two countries without government permission.

"I can say that the Syrians tightly control their society and the Iranians even more tightly. It is well known that Iran and Syria bring protesters into the streets when they wish, to make a point," she said Sunday.

The drawings - including one that depicts the prophet wearing a turban shaped like a bomb - have been reprinted in several publications in Europe, the United States and elsewhere in what publishers say is a show of solidarity for freedom of expression.

Protests continued Sunday. Ultra-nationalist Turks, chanting "vengeance," pelted the French consulate in Istanbul with eggs as about 2,500 pro-Islamic demonstrators shouted "Down with America, Israel and Denmark." At least 30,000 protesters denounced publication of the drawings in a peaceful rally in southeast Turkey.

Graffiti insulting the Prophet Muhammad - including offensive slogans equating Islam's founder with a pig, an animal Muslims regard to be unclean - also were found scrawled on a West Bank mosque, touching off a protest in which three Palestinians were shot by Israeli soldiers and an Israeli woman was slightly injured by stones thrown at her car.

The Iranian foreign minister told reporters Sunday that Denmark could have resolved the problem had it apologized immediately for the caricatures. He also repeated claims by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that the drawings were part of an Israeli conspiracy.

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen repeatedly has said he cannot apologize for the actions of a free press.

"Neither the government, nor the Danish people can be held responsible for what is published in a free and independent newspaper," he said Sunday on CNN's Late Edition.

He also said he agreed with Rice.

"I think she has a point. It's obvious to me that certain countries take advantage of this situation to distract attention from their own problems with the international community, including Syria and Iran," he said.

Denmark has withdrawn embassy staff from Iran, Syria and Indonesia. It also warned Danes to leave Indonesia, saying they faced a "significant and imminent danger" from an extremist group.

Protests over the cartoons have been relatively small across Indonesia, although hardliners last week briefly stormed the lobby of the high-rise building housing the Danish Embassy in Jakarta and threw stones at the Scandinavian country's consulate in Surabaya city.

Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi told German newspaper Neuen Ruhr/Neuen Rhein Zeitung that the "infidels" who have published the caricatures are guilty of spreading hate, according to an early release of the article.

In other developments:

-Algerian editors Kamel Bousaad and Berkane Bouderbala have been taken into police custody for publishing the caricatures of the prophet, the Paris-based Reporters Without Borders said Sunday.

-A little-known far-right group in Finland posted the Muhammad drawings on its Web site Sunday, saying it was protesting that a similar site was closed in Sweden after soliciting new cartoons of the prophet.

-The Indian government expressed its "deep concern" about the growing controversy in an official statement late Saturday, urging greater sensitivity to the beliefs of others.


See Christian Right-Wing Hate groups are the ones publishing these cartoons. To push hate against a people.

Now, even though I think of putting out Holocaust cartoons is dispictable because of what took place, and it will hurt and inflame the tensions around the world, it will be interesting to see what Western Leaders have to say, what is their limits to Free Speech.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
It should be interesting to see whether those who are arguing against the Muslim protesters now, saying that they should not oppose the right to free speech, would have the same sentiment regarding these cartoons.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
It should be interesting to see whether those who are arguing against the Muslim protesters now, saying that they should not oppose the right to free speech, would have the same sentiment regarding these cartoons.

Agreed Five. If you want to protray Muslims as savages and barbarians, you can't deny them the right under Free Speech to do cartoons about the Holocaust, even though they aren't helpful.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Perhaps my memory fails me, but I recall no terrorism resulting from this cartoon incident, having occurred in Canada; our Muslim community here in Canada has acted quite appropriately in response to this situation, I would assert. They have assembled and protested peacefully, and taken steps to ensure that no violence will ensue in the future.
 

nitzomoe

Electoral Member
Dec 31, 2004
334
0
16
Toronto
RE: Interesting: Iran and

this sort of tit-for-tat nonsense is really pathetic Ahmadinejahd just ruined his argument entirely by doing this, not that his argument was legitimate to begin with.

We teach our children not to do this sort of thing.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: Interesting: Iran and Holocaust cartoons

FiveParadox said:
Perhaps my memory fails me, but I recall no terrorism resulting from this cartoon incident, having occurred in Canada; our Muslim community here in Canada has acted quite appropriately in response to this situation, I would assert. They have assembled and protested peacefully, and taken steps to ensure that no violence will ensue in the future.

Yep. Too bad the rest of the world didn't do the same.

I'm with ITN on this one.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
*Sigh* A few points:

Agreed Five. If you want to protray Muslims as savages and barbarians, you can't deny them the right under Free Speech to do cartoons about the Holocaust, even though they aren't helpful.

The cartoons that showed the prophet had nothing to do with portraying them as "savages and barbarians". Most of them were just images of a man in a turban. Only 2 of the 12 were actually offensive; 1 with a bomb shaped turban, and another with the prophet saying "heaven is running out of virgins for all the suicide bombers". I suggest you get your facts straight before you make a crass comment like you did. As for it being freedom of speech, international law prohibits the publication of hate literature. While drawing a few images of the prophet is hardly hate literature, drawing images that represent the mass and systematic MURDER of over 6 million people in a 5 year span is hate literature my friend.


Perhaps my memory fails me, but I recall no terrorism resulting from this cartoon incident, having occurred in Canada; our Muslim community here in Canada has acted quite appropriately in response to this situation, I would assert. They have assembled and protested peacefully, and taken steps to ensure that no violence will ensue in the future.

No one ever claimed Canadian Muslims were doing anything violent, however your narrow views regarding this issue are atypical of Western society. Just because it isn't happening in Canada, you're ok with everything. Stop to realize that thousands around the world are burning flags and burning embassies to the ground, and you'll realize that people have blown this issue out to mega proportions. They're fucking cartoons, drawn by people not bound by Islamic law, therefore not illegal. if fundamentalists what to burn flags and wedges of cheese over this, perhaps the cartoons were right?

1,300 people in Toronto isn't too small. That's as big as some Canadian communities.

The fact that 1300 people have that much free time to protest something as trivial as a cartoon is pretty sad. I'm a soldier, put up anti-military cartoons on the internet and i'll have a laugh. Just because someone draws something that goes against your religion, that doesn't mean they're wrong. If some arab wants to draw a cartoon of a Jew building a moat around his house (to signify the wall around Israel) i'd laugh my ass off. If some arab wants to get bent out of shape and draw images of the holocaust, I assure you, I won't be laughing. This whole issue has lowered my views of Muslims, not that their image could get much lower than it was...
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
You can't have it any other way.

You want Free Speech against peoples religion, then the Holocaust should be as free reign for them to respond to. Free Speech under your logic.

Now, even though it is disgusting to do a cartoon on the Holocaust, it is their choice under your idea of free speech.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
Oh don't get me wrong, people can draw it all they want. But The Hague (international criminal court) will have something to say about it. There's a line between questionable subject matter and straight out ignorance. Images of the holocaust fall under the later.
 

sanch

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2005
647
0
16
Jersay said:
You can't have it any other way.

You want Free Speech against peoples religion, then the Holocaust should be as free reign for them to respond to. Free Speech under your logic.

Now, even though it is disgusting to do a cartoon on the Holocaust, it is their choice under your idea of free speech.

This is not correct. In Canada with hate crime there has to be some threat of action coupled with the speech or in this case the cartoons. The cartoons stood by themselves, and as insulting as they might have been to Muslims, there was no direct threat. No one as far as I know is calling for any harm to befall Muslims or any action to be taken against them

This is not true with Iran. The president of Iran has denied the Holocaust. He has called for the destruction of Israel and the death of Jews. And now he is offended and wants to publish cartoons of the Holocaust in retaliation. It would seem that Canadian law would treat these two cases very differently.

Cartoons about the US and the West as the Great Satin and Jews and the Holocaust have been published in the Arab world and Iran for decades and no one has objected really. Some of this stuff is very hateful. This is nothing new and it has been tolerated for decades by the West.
 

The Gunslinger

Electoral Member
May 12, 2005
169
0
16
Wetaskiwin, AB
I don't know if anyone reads the National Post, but last Tuesday, they posted several cartoons that the mid east has printed about Israeli's. Talk about poor taste. The Danish ones got nothing on those one.
 

Shiva

Electoral Member
Sep 8, 2005
149
0
16
Toronto
Re: RE: Interesting: Iran and Holocaust cartoons

FiveParadox said:
It should be interesting to see whether those who are arguing against the Muslim protesters now, saying that they should not oppose the right to free speech, would have the same sentiment regarding these cartoons.

Well, of course, the idea of Iran attempting to tackle double standards when it comes to free speech is a joke. Afterall, they don't have free speech, so who are they to criticise anyone?

And if they as Muslims in Iran are offended by what they perceive to be cartoons unfairly attacking their faith in poor taste, does it make sense to attack someone else who didn't insult you with an arguably worse insult (trivialising innocent dead people)? Wouldn't it make sense to attack Danes somehow, rather than Jews?

This action has lost them the moral authority to complain about the cartoons to begin with because they are now engaging in exactly the same type of behaviour they presumably abhor. The action is hypocritical, in poor taste, and more than likely does nothing than betray prejudices in a nation that makes anti-Semitism a national sport.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
And if they as Muslims in Iran are offended by what they perceive to be cartoons unfairly attacking their faith in poor taste, does it make sense to attack someone else who didn't insult you with an arguably worse insult (trivialising innocent dead people)? Wouldn't it make sense to attack Danes somehow, rather than Jews?

This action has lost them the moral authority to complain about the cartoons to begin with because they are now engaging in exactly the same type of behaviour they presumably abhor. The action is hypocritical, in poor taste, and more than likely does nothing than betray prejudices in a nation that makes anti-Semitism a national sport.

No no no. People on this forum said that they can have all the free speech in the world, if you can print your cartoons.

Now, that they are printing cartoons about the Holocaust, which don't help the situation, if you want full Free Speech and allow the Danish cartoons, you can't say the Muslim people have lost moral authroity because both are an attack on a peoples.

Danish cartoons - Muslims are savage, barbarians, and terrorists

Muslim cartoons with regards to Holocaust, would be something that has to degregate the Jewish people. I think I heard one was Anne Frank and Hitler and something.

However, if you are a defender of Free Speech, total free speech you can't be outraged about the Muslim cartoons because they are practicing free speech.
 

Shiva

Electoral Member
Sep 8, 2005
149
0
16
Toronto
Jersay said:
No no no. People on this forum said that they can have all the free speech in the world, if you can print your cartoons.

I didn't say it was illegal, just that Iran isn't in a position to test free speech limits because they don't protect free speech, that it was in poor taste to attack someone who didn't attack you, hypocritical because they're complaining about the same sort of behaviour they're engaging in, and that they lose the authority to complain about such behaviour if they're doing the same thing.
 

Colin

New Member
Jun 20, 2005
47
0
6
I fail to see how this is the work of Christian groups alone. Would you care to elaborate on that statement Jersey?
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
I didn't say it was illegal, just that Iran isn't in a position to test free speech limits because they don't protect free speech, that it was in poor taste to attack someone who didn't attack you, hypocritical because they're complaining about the same sort of behaviour they're engaging in, and that they lose the authority to complain about such behaviour if they're doing the same thing.

They are testing the limits of free Speech. Even thought you could make the debate that they have no free speech, but they are just waiting for someone to say, "no you can't do that, that is terrible, and start a fuss."

Then they will come back with, "But you did that to our prophet."

I think as in American termonology that Jewish people are collateral damage. Because in European nations, Austria especially it is a crime to talk about the Holocaust.
I fail to see how this is the work of Christian groups alone. Would you care to elaborate on that statement Jersey?

Nope, the Norweigan paper was right-wing christian, then the Duthc one was right wing, there are numerous right wing christian papers publishing it. But there are also neutral and left-wingers as well.