Coups arranged or backed by the U.S.A

[darkbeaver]

From 1945 to the end of the (20th) century, the USA attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populists- nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes. In the process, the USA caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair. William Blum - author of Rogue State :evil:

 

[Durgan]

It was a different era. The enemy was communism. It had to be destroyed in my view.

The western nations particularly the USA would get in bed with the devil as long as the particular regime was stable and anti-communist.

You have the previlege of talking about it today, because of their dragonian and repressive actions.

Some of the bastards they supported were not tea-room types, but that was the real world at the time. I used to refer to them as CIA sponsored democracies.

Durgan.

 

[darkbeaver]

It was a different era. The enemy was communism. It had to be destroyed in my view.

The western nations particularly the USA would get in bed with the devil as long as the particular regime was stable and anti-communist.

You have the previlege of talking about it today, because of their dragonian and repressive actions.

Some of the bastards they supported were not tea-room types, but that was the real world at the time. I used to refer to them as CIA sponsored democracies.

Durgan.

So do you believe the end justifys the means? That means murder and starvation are O/K right.You can accept the responsibility can
you? Talking about it today is my right, it,s not a privilege extented to me by Mad hydrocarbon junkies!

 

[Virtual Burlesque]

It was a different era. The enemy was communism. It had to be destroyed in my view.

The western nations particularly the USA would get in bed with the devil as long as the particular regime was stable and anti-communist.

You have the previlege of talking about it today, because of their dragonian and repressive actions.

Some of the bastards they supported were not tea-room types, but that was the real world at the time. I used to refer to them as CIA sponsored democracies.

Durgan.

No doubt the people who fought against, and were ultimately crushed beneath oppressive regimes in your CIA-sponsored democracies, were worth the sacrifice to maintain stable global economic relationships, and grow an American economy that could support a world-dominating military.

Do try to savour those privileges while you can, because that dragon is turning and has slowly begun to claw away your rights and freedoms, as it shifts its draconian weight upon its own kind.

 

[JomZ]

Welcome to reality, where people do horrible things to people on a daily basis. Whether Communist, Capitalist, Fascist, or just a plain old king, governments have done some pretty awful stuff to its enemies, innocent civilians, and its very own people.

There are no words of comfort for this, it is a reality where ignorance, hate, anger, and lust combine in people and cause them to do some of the most cruel and vicious things to each other.

 

[Colpy]

From 1945 to the end of the (20th) century, the USA attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populists- nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes. In the process, the USA caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair. William Blum - author of Rogue State :evil:

You would have prefered instead nuclear war with the USSR? Because, in fact, many of the brush wars the USA was involved in were simply little wars by proxy against the Russians.

That said, you are correct in many ways. The overthrow of Allende in Chile, and his replacement by Pinochet was a disaster. American support of Samoza in Nicaraugua was indefensible, and was in fact dropped by Carter. The Americans were drawn into Vietnam in a battle against their old ally Ho Chi Minh to curry favour with allies (France) in Europe. Dumb.

Thank God now the Americans work hard to set up free and democratic nations, eh?

 

[zoofer]

Since 1945 the USA has helped to defeat Nazi Germany and liberated the enslaved people of Europe. They defeated the Japanese to liberate those occupied countries. They protected the West from Russian expansion for 40 years.
They liberated Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq.
Next is Iran who threaten civilization.


No need to thank them....................
They are Americans..........................
Thats what they do..........................
Spend men and treasure.....................
Defending the weak..........................
Rather than fence sitting....................
Hoping for the best...........................

 

[Finder]

Since 1945 the USA has helped to defeat Nazi Germany and liberated the enslaved people of Europe. They defeated the Japanese to liberate those occupied countries. They protected the West from Russian expansion for 40 years.
They liberated Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq.
Next is Iran who threaten civilization.


No need to thank them....................
They are Americans..........................
Thats what they do..........................
Spend men and treasure.....................
Defending the weak..........................
Rather than fence sitting....................
Hoping for the best...........................

USA didn't join the WAR until it was ATTACKED!!! Canada was in it way before the American's so thanks for nothing USA. They should thank us.

The cold war was a 50/50 thing. Both sides did wrong things so thanks for nothing again USA.

Oh and one mans freedom fighter is another's terorist, just as in one persons liberator is another's conqourer.

I guess you could also see it this way. The USA in the 80's loved Osama, funded him and supported his allies too. Just for him to find a new terorist target the usa.

Also the USA also supported Saddam in the 80's as he fought Iran. We all know how that has turned out. yeah. No thanks again USA.

Jesus, the list is so long. In the end there were few differences between the USSR and the USA... in the end you could say the USA has better PR. *shrugs*...

Also I think in the end it really doesn't matter to someone if they are about to be blown away by an American or a soviet missle. Very few north american's care about the hundres of thousands of innocent civilians who have died in just the last few years by the USA. If this was the USSR we know we'd be hearing a different story right now.

 

[missile]

Let's not forget that Saddam Hussein,on trial for war crimes against humanity, was a USA puppet for many years.

 

[I think not]

Ooooo, the world is morally awake and know moral bankruptcy when they see it. They see it in the stupid talk shows (and the so called reality shows), the brutally violent movies coming out of our film studios, and all of the DAMN WARS our country starts, they know that SOMETHING is wrong with our country, because none of that crap would fly anywhere in the world even for a second.

But why play with words, oh America, you are the quintessential evil of the world, from the time of the Indian slaughters to the Iraq invasion, you can never do any good. You have but one purpose, world domination. To do so, you kill your own citizens, install tin pot dictators the world over, you obstruct the spread of communism in the name of profit. You are a beacon of greed, consumerism and materialism. You dumb down your population through the media controlled by the evil corporations.

Chinese believe that the United States deliberately started the SARS epidemic; Islamic leaders in three Nigerian states blocked critical polio inoculations for children, denouncing them as a U.S. plot to spread AIDS or infertility among Muslims. And best-selling books in France and Germany claim that 9/11 was a propaganda stunt by American intelligence agencies and the military industrial complex.

Ah America, the world sees you for what you are.

 

[Huck]

RE: Coups arranged or bac

Truth is that no one really knows. Maybe the americans were really attacked by al qaeda, but maybe they allowed it to happen. Who can claim to know the truth, unless using arguments that are pure speculation.

As for the other wars, again we will never really know. We have to admit that politics are rarely clean and can spawn wars for very unethical reasons. But, then again, maybe the wars were fought for real and legitimate reasons.


Whatever the true reasons were, odds that we get the real and simple truth are very low. Its very easy to hide the truth, or at least change it. We all saw many movies about it, we all did and we know it exists.

When we think of it, who really believes that the history written in books that we are tough in school is really what happened? Upon reflection, it is clear that history was recorded by people, who had the power to alter the facts, or interpretation. This is the same for the bible, quran, etc. we can not trust a 2000 yhear old book to be free of lies and 'adaptations'. History is a nice story, written for kids... (truth is usually much darker and complex)

For example: In montreal news today, there is a doctor that is being sued for 2.3 millions for having faulted and rendered a poor girl blind. The story is everywhere in the papers (i.e.http://tinyurl.com/azbdj I read it myself in the papers, as they talk about the poor and courageous girl that has now no more life ahead of her. The thing is that one of my uncle is also an opthalmologist. He was one of the doctors she went to see to get a counter expertise. Him and ALL of the other doctors found that see could see very well (not blind at all) and that she was crazy and wanted to sue, no matter what for easy money. So, i got to see first hand how the headlines we get to read can be bullshit. The world can be presented to us in any manner, there is no way for us to know. (i have more true stories about my familly being affected by hidden and corrupt powers in the high levels of quebec society)


All this being said, anything i can add will be pure speculation. But, i have trouble imagining that an empire, fighting to thrive such as the romans, the french, the british and the americans can fight expansive wars for pure ethical reasons (and european history tells us they didn't). The people may want it (and thank you for that), but the people in power (which are usually in the shades) have much more important things to do; and they are the ones that get to decide. The only difference now, is that because of the media, a 'show' must be set up to support what is being told about the war, not what is really happening and the true reasons it is occuring.

Mr. rothschild in the 18th century once said: "Allow me to create and control a nation's money, and i care not who makes the laws".[/url]

 

[#juan]

There is a difference

between righteous, patriotism, and ostrich like denial. The U.S. has financed coups, and meddled in the affairs of sovereign countries all over the world for years. Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden, Marcos, the Shah of Iran, to name only a few, were all favorites of the U.S. at one time, much to the detriment of the people in those countries. Saying now, "we were only fighting Communism" doesn't cut it. These dictators, despots all, tortured and killed their own people to stay in power. It has always been easier for the U.S. to deal with a dictator rather than a leader who was responsible to the people. Fighting Communism? More like making the world safe for Wal-Mart and the oil companies.

 

[Jay]

"More like making the world safe for Wal-Mart and the oil companies."

That would be fighting communism....

 

[I think not]

 

[Huck]

ITN: hehe, nice photo, i like it. It could also most probably apply to most high profile polliticians like John Kerry, Paul Martin, S. Harper, Jacques Chirac, Tony Blair, etc...

 

[Jay]

Ahh, there I am, in the background, sporting my new black robe.....

 

[Huck]

Re: RE: Coups arranged or backed by the U.S.A

Ahh, there I am, in the background, sporting my new black robe.....

lol :wink: I can give an example, which my familly has experienced first hand. (what im going to say may apply to other canadian provinces and the USA, but i will speak for what i know)


In Quebec, the ministers are democratically elected by the people and are said to be the ones that run the show. They are accountable for their doings to the public, and can lose their position if they dont do things right. But, there is a more obscure position called the "sous minsitre" (sub minister), which is just under the minister and is not ellected by the people, but apointed. Because of this, all sorts of scammers get to be sub ministers, and they are the ones who really run the show. They can also survive cxhanges in governments, again because they are not ellected, but in the shades. They take the bribes, they decide and influence the ministers decisions, they do lobbying and are targets to lobbying, etc. If you ever want to get something done or get big government contracts, it is know by the people near power that the syub minister is your man to convince. So, despites the apperances of a democracy, it is only a partial illusion as the real mobsters still get the seats of power, and the people are happy.
Perfect world, isn't it :roll:

 

[I think not]

There is a difference

between righteous, patriotism, and ostrich like denial. The U.S. has financed coups, and meddled in the affairs of sovereign countries all over the world for years. Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden, Marcos, the Shah of Iran, to name only a few, were all favorites of the U.S. at one time, much to the detriment of the people in those countries. Saying now, "we were only fighting Communism" doesn't cut it. These dictators, despots all, tortured and killed their own people to stay in power. It has always been easier for the U.S. to deal with a dictator rather than a leader who was responsible to the people. Fighting Communism? More like making the world safe for Wal-Mart and the oil companies.

Good analysis #juan. :thumbright:

 

[Huck]

Is it wrong to support despot governments throughout the world for our own good :?:

 

[Huck]

Nowadays, wars are sold to the people like fairy tales. They are simple, and virtous.


"Once upon a time, there was an evil king who terrorised his people. Luckly, the kingdom of light had honorable knights who would save the poor people for the sake of honour. The king of light decided, although he knew he would lose some of his valorous people, to save the poor terrorised people. He sent his knights of the round, and saved the terrorised without killing anyone. At the end, they returned the terrorised country to the people. On the way, the knights fell in love woth the beautiful princess of the freed kingdom. they all lived happilly everafter under the flag of light".


Thats a great bed time story and will satisfy the idiots. But, politicsa are MUCH more complicated.