70 Virgins
- Thread starter Durgan
- Start date
I've read online that this 70 virgin thing is a western myth, I never really had the nerve of asking a few muslims I know, they are very decent people, I wouldn't want to offend them.
The Palestinian homicide/suicide bombers from the Islamic Jihad, Hamas, and Arafat's terrorist groups that blow themselves up are promised 72 virgins when they reach heaven.
Martin Bodek has 72 questions on how this whole virgin thing works. Here are the top 10:
1) What if the bomber wants girls with more experience?
2) What if one virgin is no good in bed? Does she get replaced or is he stuck with 71?
3) If he's gay, does he get male virgins?
4) What if he's celibate? What does he get?
5) What if he hasn't reached puberty yet? Does he get 72 Xboxes till he comes of age?
6) If he's bi, does he get 36 of each?
7) If he blows himself up while building the bomb, does he still get credit?
8) What do you call a relationship with 72 women, a menage-a-soixante-deux?
9) Are they like 72 wives or 1 wife and 71 concubines?
10) What if he's ugly or smells bad and the virgins don't want anything to do with him?
:lol:
Martin Bodek has 72 questions on how this whole virgin thing works. Here are the top 10:
1) What if the bomber wants girls with more experience?
2) What if one virgin is no good in bed? Does she get replaced or is he stuck with 71?
3) If he's gay, does he get male virgins?
4) What if he's celibate? What does he get?
5) What if he hasn't reached puberty yet? Does he get 72 Xboxes till he comes of age?
6) If he's bi, does he get 36 of each?
7) If he blows himself up while building the bomb, does he still get credit?
8) What do you call a relationship with 72 women, a menage-a-soixante-deux?
9) Are they like 72 wives or 1 wife and 71 concubines?
10) What if he's ugly or smells bad and the virgins don't want anything to do with him?
:lol:
Durgan said:
Funny but ignorant.
The Logic of Suicide Terrorism
It’s the occupation, not the fundamentalism
http://www.amconmag.com/2005_07_18/article.html
TAC: So if Islamic fundamentalism is not necessarily a key variable behind these groups, what is?
RP: The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent of all the incidents—has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw.
I think not said:
http://ekahibya.notlong.com
The Palestinian press repeatedly exalts the religious status of the martyr (Shahid) for the sake of Allah. The Chief Mufti of the Palestinian Police, Sheik Abd Al-Salam Skheidm specified the rewards according to Islamic tradition:
From the moment his first drop of blood spills, he feels no pain and he is absolved of all his sins; he sees his seat in heaven; he is spared the tortures of the grave; he is spared the horrors of Judgment Day; he is married to [70] black-eyed [virgins]; he can vouch for 70 of his family members to enter paradise; he earns the crown of glory whose precious stone is worth all of this world. (Palestinian Authority daily newspaper, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, September 17, 1999)
Try again.
Durgan
Durgan said:
No matter how much I may think the PLO is in the right on having there own land, it's stupitity like this among other things which many westerners just turn our back on it.
You know there's a demographic missing in all of
our understanding of Palestine.
It is how irretrievably young they are.
Imagine if you will, Animal Farm.
Or even Peter Pan's Lost Boys.
our understanding of Palestine.
It is how irretrievably young they are.
Imagine if you will, Animal Farm.
Or even Peter Pan's Lost Boys.
Durgan said:
THat doesnt show the real motives behind terrorist act.This does.
http://www.amconmag.com/2005_07_18/article.html
Re: RE: 70 Virgins
It's not lost Jimmy, Old men sending young men to do their dirty work for them, it happens in the West all the time. :evil:
jimmoyer said:
It's not lost Jimmy, Old men sending young men to do their dirty work for them, it happens in the West all the time. :evil:
The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent of all the incidents—has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw.
--------------------------aeon's article--------------
I got a major caveat for you Aeon.
That's the strategy of the Man Behind The Curtain.
Who tells you to pay NO ATTENTION to the man behind
the curtain, if you know your Wizard of Oz stuff.
A forty year old man doesn't do this.
Google the truth on that one.
It's the older man who finds a young tabula rasa
to write with blood on.
And like master predators they find the young ones
who will do this.
If you ignore the psychology of this and all you see
is the revolution's cause then wonder why the older
won't kill themselves with a bomb vest ???
Wonder why millions of the young won't even do it?
You will see them take arms, but you won't see
them don a clown's errand for some general
or some master terrorist who wants you to masturbate
your soul.
You won't even see you do this for them, even for your
wise understanding of their premise.
--------------------------aeon's article--------------
I got a major caveat for you Aeon.
That's the strategy of the Man Behind The Curtain.
Who tells you to pay NO ATTENTION to the man behind
the curtain, if you know your Wizard of Oz stuff.
A forty year old man doesn't do this.
Google the truth on that one.
It's the older man who finds a young tabula rasa
to write with blood on.
And like master predators they find the young ones
who will do this.
If you ignore the psychology of this and all you see
is the revolution's cause then wonder why the older
won't kill themselves with a bomb vest ???
Wonder why millions of the young won't even do it?
You will see them take arms, but you won't see
them don a clown's errand for some general
or some master terrorist who wants you to masturbate
your soul.
You won't even see you do this for them, even for your
wise understanding of their premise.
You will probably have no problem finding Virgin Girls within the Muslims, but from what I heard you wil never find a Virgin Boy.
______________________________________________________________aeon said:
Very good URL. A first look it makes sense. Thanks.
http://joyabeks.notlong.com
Durgan.
The western war effort is and always has been fought by demonizing the enemy. I am pleased that the 70 virgins is not and never has been a motive for human beings to sacrifice their lives to attain such.
Teh highlighted section below makes more sense for a large number of sucicide bombings. It doesn't really explain 9/11. Only an idiot would try to kill an Indian tiger by grabbing its tail.
RP: The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent of all the incidents—has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw.
Further: It appears to me one of the main problems in Islam states is the religion. By its very nature Islam is an inhibitor of free thinking and acting, which I assume most people desire. Not that I would not apply the same thing to any religion (Christion), but we in the west have tamed Christianity except for a few pockets. By this I mean secular society kicks them back into their holes when they get too rambunctious.
I suggest religion is the root of a lot of misery and pain to the human race. The harm far outweighs the benefits in general.
Durgan.
Teh highlighted section below makes more sense for a large number of sucicide bombings. It doesn't really explain 9/11. Only an idiot would try to kill an Indian tiger by grabbing its tail.
RP: The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent of all the incidents—has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw.
Further: It appears to me one of the main problems in Islam states is the religion. By its very nature Islam is an inhibitor of free thinking and acting, which I assume most people desire. Not that I would not apply the same thing to any religion (Christion), but we in the west have tamed Christianity except for a few pockets. By this I mean secular society kicks them back into their holes when they get too rambunctious.
I suggest religion is the root of a lot of misery and pain to the human race. The harm far outweighs the benefits in general.
Durgan.
Religion is not the root of a lot of misery.
Slavery, a non-religious institution, saw religious types
lead the way in attacking it in every western country.
In fact it was the religious fanatics who raised hell
about it in America, and made the calm moderates
take a second look.
It will be the religious who make us take a second
look at the Frankensteinian future the wise secularists
unwittingly lead us towards as they extoll their new
God of science of stem cells.
It's the religious who remind us about the abortion holocaust and I say this as one who favors the right
of abortion, but knowing we who want our rights
want the convenience of it and dismiss too easily
these warnings.
I am so not as sure as you are in pointing towards
religion as the culprit.
I would say our natural authoritarian impulses and nothing else is what gets us into trouble.
Ever see a non-religious secularist pound the pulpit
here ?
Ever see that same secularist get mad as hell that
everyone else who doesn't subscribe to what he subscribes be called stupid and brainwashed ???
I have.
I'd say the culprit is our own authoritarian impulses.
Religious or non-religious, pick your mindthink.
Slavery, a non-religious institution, saw religious types
lead the way in attacking it in every western country.
In fact it was the religious fanatics who raised hell
about it in America, and made the calm moderates
take a second look.
It will be the religious who make us take a second
look at the Frankensteinian future the wise secularists
unwittingly lead us towards as they extoll their new
God of science of stem cells.
It's the religious who remind us about the abortion holocaust and I say this as one who favors the right
of abortion, but knowing we who want our rights
want the convenience of it and dismiss too easily
these warnings.
I am so not as sure as you are in pointing towards
religion as the culprit.
I would say our natural authoritarian impulses and nothing else is what gets us into trouble.
Ever see a non-religious secularist pound the pulpit
here ?
Ever see that same secularist get mad as hell that
everyone else who doesn't subscribe to what he subscribes be called stupid and brainwashed ???
I have.
I'd say the culprit is our own authoritarian impulses.
Religious or non-religious, pick your mindthink.
Religion is not the problem jimmoyer, as you pointed out somewhat. But orginized religion which often mis-interupts, one part by mistake another for benifit there own doctrine. Again this might be the De-ist talking in me, but if it worked for Voltaire, Rousseau, Adam Smith, Newton and many other of the great thinkers, I think they were onto something.
I was with a virgin once. It was a total nightmare. She screamed a lot then she fell in love with me and threatened to kill herself etc.. Having 72 of those is my definition of Hell!
I'll stick with pointing the blame at our
natural authoritarian impulses, our need to hear
an echo of ourselves, a characteristic endemic
to even secularists, and wise independent thinkers.
Sometimes the object of our scorn and disrespect
is going to be the purveyor of some truth, a truth
we did not expect from so dismissed a source.
I suspect this will happen from the religious right
as we hurl ourselves inevitably INEVITABLY INEVITABLY
to a science fiction future of creating a new
race, or fix our blemishes in the image we imagine
to be more perfect.
When we get rid of all those blemishes, those inefficiencies in ourselves, and we get rid of unwanted
blemished births, perhaps the old ages before secular
thought was King might open something to us something we forgot.
I also suspect that the idea of al Qaeda and it's decentralized
command will morph into the only rebel against a united
world order.
Perhaps we see too many mistakes of the bureaucracy
of religion, but I warn you of the bureaucracy and
political correctness that now buddies up with Science.
This will be interesting.
I fear we're all too boring to realize how wrong
our predictions will be.
We're like old generals fighting the last war,
little prepared for an unpredictable future, only
because we judge everything as we see it now,
being virtual prisoners of the NOW, we even
mis-interpret history, and we compare little of the NOW
that could have been or what was horrifyingly avoided.
We'll never know.
But we think we do.
natural authoritarian impulses, our need to hear
an echo of ourselves, a characteristic endemic
to even secularists, and wise independent thinkers.
Sometimes the object of our scorn and disrespect
is going to be the purveyor of some truth, a truth
we did not expect from so dismissed a source.
I suspect this will happen from the religious right
as we hurl ourselves inevitably INEVITABLY INEVITABLY
to a science fiction future of creating a new
race, or fix our blemishes in the image we imagine
to be more perfect.
When we get rid of all those blemishes, those inefficiencies in ourselves, and we get rid of unwanted
blemished births, perhaps the old ages before secular
thought was King might open something to us something we forgot.
I also suspect that the idea of al Qaeda and it's decentralized
command will morph into the only rebel against a united
world order.
Perhaps we see too many mistakes of the bureaucracy
of religion, but I warn you of the bureaucracy and
political correctness that now buddies up with Science.
This will be interesting.
I fear we're all too boring to realize how wrong
our predictions will be.
We're like old generals fighting the last war,
little prepared for an unpredictable future, only
because we judge everything as we see it now,
being virtual prisoners of the NOW, we even
mis-interpret history, and we compare little of the NOW
that could have been or what was horrifyingly avoided.
We'll never know.
But we think we do.
Re: RE: 70 Virgins
But these orginized religions are lead by people and not god, these are the people who tell there follwers they will get 72 virgins if they blow themselves up because they are trying to put in in context with what the Korean says but are not interupting it properly. Just like when Christians burned and tortured innocent people for which craft, because of a passage in the bible. These bibles were writen by men and are interupted by men and are inforced by men. I have nothing against religion, but it should be a personal thing and not one which is so communal in aspects, as you will have problems as we have had in the past with christanity and now with Islam.
I don't think any of us need Sader, Pat Robinson, the Pope, the Iatola, a Imam to tell us what to believe. The books are out there for us to find if we want to follow them. One thing most of the books agree on is one who prays in puplic is rewarded in this life by appearing pias infront of his follow men. One who prays in private who is not seen by others and gets no benifit from praying on this world will be rewarded in the afterlife. Thus the funtion of a puplic a puplic church counter productive to the individual seeking solace with god.
The religous wars in Europe were some of the most barbaric and bloodist wars to every hit Europe. I can only think of a few social benifits of a orginized religion and that is for charity. But government can easyly do that.
I know for a fact this is my Deism coming out. =-D Government may not be perfect, but we don't get to elect corperate leaders, we don't often get to elect our religous leaders but we at least elect our government and they are subordante to us and not some belief or interuptation of god, allah, goddess, buhdah. Of course if the people want they can always elect someone who thinks he acts on behalf of god *points at the USA and Iran*.
jimmoyer said:
But these orginized religions are lead by people and not god, these are the people who tell there follwers they will get 72 virgins if they blow themselves up because they are trying to put in in context with what the Korean says but are not interupting it properly. Just like when Christians burned and tortured innocent people for which craft, because of a passage in the bible. These bibles were writen by men and are interupted by men and are inforced by men. I have nothing against religion, but it should be a personal thing and not one which is so communal in aspects, as you will have problems as we have had in the past with christanity and now with Islam.
I don't think any of us need Sader, Pat Robinson, the Pope, the Iatola, a Imam to tell us what to believe. The books are out there for us to find if we want to follow them. One thing most of the books agree on is one who prays in puplic is rewarded in this life by appearing pias infront of his follow men. One who prays in private who is not seen by others and gets no benifit from praying on this world will be rewarded in the afterlife. Thus the funtion of a puplic a puplic church counter productive to the individual seeking solace with god.
The religous wars in Europe were some of the most barbaric and bloodist wars to every hit Europe. I can only think of a few social benifits of a orginized religion and that is for charity. But government can easyly do that.
I know for a fact this is my Deism coming out. =-D Government may not be perfect, but we don't get to elect corperate leaders, we don't often get to elect our religous leaders but we at least elect our government and they are subordante to us and not some belief or interuptation of god, allah, goddess, buhdah. Of course if the people want they can always elect someone who thinks he acts on behalf of god *points at the USA and Iran*.