Piss Christ vs. Cartoon Jihad

I think not

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FrontPageMagazine.com | February 6, 2006

Back in 1988, Andres Serrano submerged a crucifix in a vat of his urine, photographed the result and called it “art.”

Naturally, many of the world's two billion Christians were bothered by his antics. Members of the U.S. Congress called for a hard look at the National Endowment for the Arts, which had helped fund Serrano. Public outcry against Serrano was vocal and widespread.

As the uproar grew, numerous editorials in defense of Piss Christ, Serrano's controversial creation, were printed in U.S. and European newspapers and the Western cultural elite quickly sprang to his defense. For months, the New York Times beat the “freedom of expression” drum for all its worth, publishing numerous articles and opinion pieces sympathetic to Serrano and depicting him as courageous. In New York City, where Serrano lived, 400 New York artists held a public rally in support of his work and his right to create and display it. Serrano became a celebrated art world hero.

Though some criticisms of Piss Christ, and the man who created it, were intemperate, Serrano's art was never forced underground, nor was his life seriously threatened, nor was he forced into hiding a la Salman Rushdie or placed in protective custody. Violence-prone packs of Christians did not roam the streets of Paris, or London, or Frankfurt, or Madrid, or New York calling for the head of Piss Christ's creator.

Serrano as “art star,” soon faded like the controversy caused by his tasteless creation. Today, as in the 1980s, he freely and openly produces provocative, blasphemous and often pornographic art including that which reflects the cultural elite's unending obsessions with, and deification of, homosexuality, transgenderism, and bodily mutilation. He never has, nor will he likely ever, push the outer limit of controversial artistic expression by creating work critical of, or disrespectful towards Islam.

Contrast the Christian reaction to Serrano's openly blasphemous Piss Christ, with that of the Muslim reaction to a series of cartoons recently published in the Jyllands-Posten, a Danish newspaper.

Late last year, the Jyllands-Posten decided to test the limits of free speech by publishing a series of cartoons featuring the prophet Mohammed. Politicized and radicalized Muslims have reacted to their publication by calling for the deaths of the cartoonists, by beating up shopkeepers who sell Danish products and by holding vocal, and often violent, demonstrations.

Members of the terrorist Islamist “Glory Brigades” now threaten Denmark with homicide bombing. The murderous savages comprising Palestinian Islamic Jihad marched on the UN headquarters in Gaza, Palestinian thugs took over Gaza's European Union office to protest the cartoons and demand their removal. Danish flags are being torched and shops selling Danish products are being boycotted and vandalized all over the Arab and Muslim world. Even Libya got in on the act, closing its embassy in Copenhagen to protest the Danish government's refusal to force Jillyand-Posten to remove the cartoons.

Christianity is routinely mocked and vilified in most counties where Islam is the dominant religion. Countless thousands of Christians have, in recent years, paid the ultimate price for practicing their faith among Muslims, including three young Indonesian girls butchered by Muslim psychopaths as they walked to Christian school. Hate-filled anti-Semitic cartoons pepper the pages of Arab and Muslim newspapers. Programs meant to incite hatred of Judaism and violence against Jews are regularly featured on Arab Muslim television networks. And yet, politicized Muslims, who rarely, if ever, categorically condemn the barbarous acts of their co-religionists and often cheer those same acts, behave as if they desire to see “infidel” blood spilled over a series of provocative drawings. Is their religion not strong enough to withstand the cartoon assault on it?

The response to all this, from the appeasement-prone Western cultural elite, has been a predictable, Theo van Gogh-like silence. The response from the American main-stream media, a virtual news blackout.

In spite of the glaring lack of support by, ironically, those in America ideally positioned to suffer from any restrictions on free expression, Denmark and its government refuse to cave in and apologize to the Muslim cultural police, even as the leftwing government of Denmark's pathologically “tolerant” neighbor, Norway, stumbles down the path of dhimmitude by doing exactly what Denmark will not.

How can one support the Danes in their critical fight for freedom of expression? Easily: Contact the major American media outlets and ask them to publicly get behind the Danes. Urge them to defend the Jillyand-Posten's right to free expression as vigorously as they once defended the same rights of Andres Serrano.

A list of some MsM contact points and e-mail links follows:

Arthur Sulzberger, NY Times
Washington Post and Newsweek
CBS News
ABC News
NBC Nightly News
National Public Radio

Another thing you can do to show solidarity with Denmark is to purchase Danish products. Go to the History News Network for a listing of some outlets where you can buy fine Danish goods.

Most importantly, directly send the Jillyand-Posten a letter of support by clicking here.

Tell those who work there that you stand with them, and with all of Denmark, against anti-free speech Muslim radicals, whose ultimate goal is to dictate what the world sees, hears, and believes.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21171
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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Non-support

I can do no such thing.

While I would support one's freedom of expression, I do not hold such a freedom to be without boundaries; I would assert that we must consider, in modern times, the freedom of expression to be, rather, a freedom of responsible expression — just because one can say whatever one wants, does not mean that one should say something of a highly questionable nature just to prove it.

We must, in my opinion, recognize the right of Muslims to express their discontent with the publication of that cartoon — the line should, however, be drawn where such objections would threaten violent or terrorist acts.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Freedom of expression must involve the
irresponsibility short of yelling fire in a small crowded
theatre.

But we're yelling fire in a very big world theatre
aren't we ?

Is this not a paradox that has no resolution ?

Nor should it?


Something is about to break, because what is
about to break is fragile.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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This begs an interesting question; if such a thing were published in Canada, would our Supreme Court of Canada consider such an expression to be an expression of hate propaganda, or would they deem such an expression to be demonstrably justified and, therefore, protected under the Charter?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Piss Christ vs. Cartoon Jihad

FiveParadox said:
This begs an interesting question; if such a thing were published in Canada, would our Supreme Court of Canada consider such an expression to be an expression of hate propaganda, or would they deem such an expression to be demonstrably justified and, therefore, protected under the Charter?

Which begs another question, why would you want your government or justice system telling you what you should or shouldn't say?
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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I would, I think not; in my opinion, most of my posts would be consistent with the idea that we should have the right to responsible speech, but "free" speech in the sense that you can say whatever you want is, in my opinion, not an appropriate component of a Constitution.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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I know what your position is Five, all I asked was why do you think your government is in a better position to ascertain what you should or shouldn't be saying? You have never answered that :wink:
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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If you have the time

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/editorial/13800923.htm

Posted on Mon, Feb. 06, 2006
The big picture in cartoon rowFree speech can offend. Clinton blew a chance to say that as Islamists urged artists' deaths.By Kathleen Parker Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of political cartoonists.
Not this time for the ones losing newspaper jobs, but for those whose lives are literally on the line thanks to outraged Islamists offering a bounty for their heads.
The cartoonists in question are a dozen Danish artists who drew Muhammad-themed cartoons last September for the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten during an exercise to test the limits of free speech. The cartoon-athon was conceived in response to complaints from a Danish author who couldn't find anyone to illustrate her Muhammad children's book.

>>>>>>>>>>continued<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Check out cartoons by Doug Marlette (link in article).
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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Not the Government in particular — but rather, the Consolidated Statutes of Canada and the Courts. I think that we need to have some way to limit some poeples' expressions, because frankly, some people express things that shouldn't be expressed. Freedom of belief is one thing, but freedom of expression should be handed out slightly more conservatively, in my opinion.

I hope that made sense; I know what I mean in my head, lol.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Piss Christ vs. Cartoon Jihad

FiveParadox said:
Not the Government in particular — but rather, the Consolidated Statutes of Canada and the Courts. I think that we need to have some way to limit some poeples' expressions, because frankly, some people express things that shouldn't be expressed. Freedom of belief is one thing, but freedom of expression should be handed out slightly more conservatively, in my opinion.

I hope that made sense; I know what I mean in my head, lol.

May I remind you:

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

I see nothing in your Charter of Rights & Freedoms regarding responsible free speech. Please elaborate.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Re: RE: Piss Christ vs. Cartoon Jihad

FiveParadox said:
Not the Government in particular — but rather, the Consolidated Statutes of Canada and the Courts. I think that we need to have some way to limit some poeples' expressions, because frankly, some people express things that shouldn't be expressed. Freedom of belief is one thing, but freedom of expression should be handed out slightly more conservatively, in my opinion.

I hope that made sense; I know what I mean in my head, lol.

I don't think you should be allowed to say that.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Government Censor-Ship; it's called China. I have no desire to live in a Government controled country that doesn't allow Freedom of Speech. Silencing the press in A free country is what the Muslim extreamists want. Their respective Media takes great joy in airing Be-headings, airing live murders of inocents, the bombings of non-combatants etc. and when they air this these brutal acts the Muslim world rejoices. I can't get over their ignorance and stupidity, I am tired of the press giving air play to these screaming nut case. For the love of Mike these Cartoons were aired in October, and it took the Muslim world four months to get worked into a feeding frenzy-I think not. To me the entire thing is a staged event to further the agenda of Terrorist, and it has nothing to do with Muslim outrage.
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
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Not only are the Muslims hypocrites, but their inclination towards fundamentalism and totalitarianism are showing through.

Oh, but Islam is a religion of peace, they say. That is getting harder and harder to believe.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Mike, I have never been anti-anything regarding race or religion but I find myself watching the New's clips of the various Islamic Countries protesting and find I am foamng at the mouth with anger and outrage at their attitudes and gall. I think the world may have to re-think how we view Muslims Countries and perhaps start protecting ourselves from their Edicts.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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RE: Piss Christ vs. Carto

MMMike,

never confuse the peace of the religion with the culture of the middle east. There is a very big difference between theology and theocracy.

Is there any record of a peaceful theocracy?

Now as for the religion; you will find that the three religions decended of abraham are all cut from the same cloth (to use that saying). Differences are only superficial in how they express their ultimate desires. Be very wary of the gods of war and domination.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
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Calgary, AB
Sassylassie said:
Mike, I have never been anti-anything regarding race or religion but I find myself watching the New's clips of the various Islamic Countries protesting and find I am foamng at the mouth with anger and outrage at their attitudes and gall. I think the world may have to re-think how we view Muslims Countries and perhaps start protecting ourselves from their Edicts.

I think you have the right idea....we do need to protect our freedom of speech. Sure advocating the extinction of a country or people (Hamas), or groups such as the KKK who advocate absolute intolerance are something we might have to look at..................BUT A CARTOON!!! I think the extremists have proven the cartoon to have a valid and realistic look on the most outrageous elements of islam.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Here here for the CARTOONS.

Let's hear it for the MARCH OF THE CARTOONS.

The Million Cartoon March !!!

Uh..

Announcer intones:
This has been a test. This is not an actual emergency.
This is a test of the Emergency Cartoon Broadcasting
Network. We now return you to your regularly scheduled
violence.
 

Freethinker

Electoral Member
Jan 18, 2006
315
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Re: RE: Piss Christ vs. Cartoon Jihad

jimmoyer said:
But we're yelling fire in a very big world theatre
aren't we ?

Are we? I think the most important aspect of free speech is being free to crticise power structures and that included government and religion. Criticism can take the form or real direct criticism or can be satirical. Criticism is not the equivalent yelling fire in a crowded theatre.

Being completely intolerant of criticism is not a free pass that makes any group immune to criticism.

Most of the cartoons contained no insult, no satire, no anything. The remainder address the Violence and Fear that have become associated with Islam. The Cartoonist looking over his shoulder in fear as he sketches Mohommad, The Stop we are out of Virgins, and the Turban with a bomb, all speak to what is Islam is becoming more and more associated with. Violence and fear.

The original editor wanted to address this atmosphere of fear, and challenge it. That fear is a very real thing, when you look at a Rushdie or a Van Gogh, or even Irshad Manjii. How many have censored themselves out of fear of being a casualty of this intolerance. I don't think this is a healthy atmosphere where no one feels safe to do any kind of work that criticises Islam. I think this was legitimate method to address that atmosphere, there was no indication that it would get this out of hand.

I stand fully with the Danes and the have made me think of a point that should be discussed. How do we address the censorship from fear and threat, that seeks to silence any future potential Salmon Rushdi,Doug Marlette, Irshad Manji, Theo Van Gogh ... And anyone else that has had the their life threatened for daring to be crtitcal of Islam.

We have a problem here and it is not the Danes, we need the freedom to discuss the issue openly, without death threats and violence.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Perhaps Cartoons are that paradox of an image
that attacks images.

An icon smasher, ironically, in pictorial form.

Full of laughter popping the most serious bloated
balloon.

See that pompous fool in the mirror ?

Let us all pontificate.

Somewhere the Buddhists might have even
silently watched their oldest and largest statues
fall from a Mountain cliff in Afghanistan six months
before the Twin Towers.

A shrug ?

Maybe.

The largest and oldest Buddha still lies in the heart.

Along with the cartoons.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Or perhaps jimmy the article went way over your head. Nobody has said Muslims shouldn't protest if they wanted to, nobody has said if they wanted to stop buying Danish foods they couldn't, we would probably say NOTHING, as everyone protests against something or another.

But to resort to burning embassies and calling for the beheading of cartoonists is quite frankly, disgusting. And sorry but I don't buy the quiet Muslims bid going about their daily lives being annoyed about it, if they aren't annoyed at what they project by extemists doing what they do and not protesting THAT, then I have very little sympathy for them.

Why hasn't the police arrested any of these people? Who is going to pay for the damages? You realize they are up in arms and they haven't even SEEN the cartoons? Who the f*ck knows what their mullahs are telling them. F*ck this shit. I'm fed up. :evil: