The Euro vs Dollar Conspiracy Theory

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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He also converted his country's $10 billion reserve fund with the IMF into euros. Saddam was pillored for what then seemed like a silly move --- he was letting politics get the better of economics. But the euro has appreciated by 17% against the dollar since then, and the dictator has, unknowingly, saved a part of Iraq's forex assets from falling in value.
-----------------------------link by neo-con hunter----

Well let's analyze this mostly opinion piece that
does pay some nod to macro-economics.

You will note that Saddam initially took a loss,
and you will note that the article lacks reference
to who was annoyed. It wasn't America, because
a devalued dollar increases American exports
and hurts European imports. The group that was
annoyed was the EU federal reserve.

And when the EU's euro rebounded, they were then
angry at George Bush for letting the Dollar slide.

A country generally loses profit if it dumps too many
dollars too quickly when exchanging for the euro.

If the change is gradual, neither currency hurts.

But if too rapidly, the Euro suffers because it is too highly
valued and helps American exports and lowers EU exports.

I'm starting this post as a new thread, because
I constantly see people believing in this theory that
America will attack any country going to the Euro.

This is a belief, but I have not seen any economic reason
that supports this belief.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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The Jewish folks own Wall Street and the largest threat that Iran has against Wall Street is that Iran wants to sell it's oil and gas for the Dinar and not the US dollar. This would destroy the U.S. hegemony. ....Saddam tried to sell his oil for Euro's and was a threat to the US hegemony.
---------------------------Paranoid Dot Calm--------------------


I fail to see why, in your own words without
links, why using the euro over the dollar is such
a threat to America ?


Right now if anyone dumps the dollar too rapidly,
the value of the dollar will fall and they will get
less euros to replace it.

Even the EU has admonished George Bush about
letting the dollar slide too rapidly compared to the
Euro.

Why?

Because American exports go up and EU exports
go down. Then jobs are affected. And so is
capital investment.

Now for those nations with few dollars in the bank
going to the euro has almost no economic effect.

Eventually in the long term as the dollar and euro
stay in sync causing no one short term losses, a world
currency probably will emerge.

But even this is not always desirable,
because a powerful entity dictating interest rates
must emerge and this takes away most nation's ability
to set the amount of money supply and therefore
control inflation or deflation.

Notice the trouble between EU nations that must
accept helplessly
this federal reserve like body setting of interest rates.
 

nitzomoe

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Dec 31, 2004
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RE: The Euro vs Dollar Co

I think in the short run it will serve to destabilize the currency markets but in the long run could be very dangerous for the US only. Many countries if not most have tied their coutnries curreny to the dollar ever since bretton-woods and this includes the important oil producing nations.

If they were to switch it could signal the decline of the dollar all over the world. Economically the emrgenc of other quite powerful economies outside of the US could signal less trade to the US and more trade between nations with singular currencies such as what the GCC wants to accomplish(though i doubt thatll happen). Georgraphical distances and more free trade is encouraging this.

Mind you all that I have said is in the very long run and 5+ years at best but this is potentially dangerous for the US and the rest of the worlkd
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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This hardly explains being the nefarious reason
for attacking Iraq, nor Iran.

By then all the elites will trade in the euro or whatever
currency retains value and don't the conspiracy
theorists say they rule the world ?


And it will take a lot longer than 5 years for the
dollar to lose value because the EU does not support
the rapid loss of the dollar because it makes EU
exports more expensive.

In economics what ever you get, something is
taken away, and for every rise there is a loss.

It's called a trade.

It's called exchange.
 

nitzomoe

Electoral Member
Dec 31, 2004
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Re: RE: The Euro vs Dollar Conspiracy Theory

jimmoyer said:
This hardly explains being the nefarious reason
for attacking Iraq, nor Iran.

By then all the elites will trade in the euro or whatever
currency retains value and don't the conspiracy
theorists say they rule the world ?


And it will take a lot longer than 5 years for the
dollar to lose value because the EU does not support
the rapid loss of the dollar because it makes EU
exports more expensive.

In economics what ever you get, something is
taken away, and for every rise there is a loss.

It's called a trade.

It's called exchange.

i am in no way supporting any cosnpiracy theories nor have I ever believed in one. I am saying that the US may be endangering itself by letting this sort of thing occur.

and yes we all noe the basics of economics jim moyer :D as long as theirs economic profit to be made who cares what the loss is!
 

iamcanadian

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I have long believed that having different currencies is blataint form of international corruption designed to screw the average people.

It does not take any great effort and poses no technical problems having one currency for whole the plannet in this day and age. Currency is artificial wealth manipulation on a grandest of scales and one of the biggest causes of world wide poverty and economic turmoil.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Actually having one world currency means you
develop a world entity that sets the prime lending
rate banks charge.

This interest rate controls the quantity of
the money supply.

You may have wondered about all this talk of
interest rates.

Too much ? Inflation.

Too little ? Deflation.

If you examine the EU countries, it was no small
feat for each country to give up sovereign control
on regulating the money supply.

And many are bellyaching over the decision made
on the prime lending rate.

You may not want that kind of authority
placed in one world entity's hands.

Such an entity comes with your wish for a one
world currency.

Coin does not live alone. It lives with those
who have to regulate the size of the money supply.

Otherwise, we can just do what North Korea does.
Create an industry of counterfeit money.

As you say, it's that easy.

Except for the worldwide
inflation and deflation part.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

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The only thing that saved the Euro was that Britian invaded Iraq. 6 months previous, the British economy was about to collapse because Shell Oil and BP were found to have inflated oil reserves by 30%. This "fraud" was far worse then Enron for the British pound.

The minute Britain invaded Iraq, BP got the oil reserves of southern Iraq put on their balance sheet and an Ex Prez of BP was put in charge of the oil ministry in Iraq.

Shell, Nigeria and Oil & Gas Reserves Revision - Sloppiness or Fraud?
http://www.nigerdeltacongress.com/sarticles/shell_nigeria_and_oil__gas_reser.htm

It stupid to say that the Arabs worry about the fall of the U.S. dollar when everyday the U.S. is threatening to bomb or invade one of the middle eastern countries.

Maybe the Saudi's care .... but nobody else in the middle east cares about investments in the U.S. or the declining value.

Each time the U.S. threatens military action .... they destroy the economy of the nation mentioned overnight. Iran's economy has declined 50% since Israel and the U.S. began making all these threats against them.

The only way of gaining independence of the U.S. dominance in the region is to sell the oil for an Arab currency.

And, the only reason their is demand for the US greenback is because people need it to purchase oil. The whole world is trading their currency to buy the U.S. greenback in order to pay for oil in U.S. dollar denominations.

If the oil cartels begin selling it for an Arab currency, then that currency becomes the world currency. The demand for the U.S. dollar would collapse overnight.

That is how the U.S. operates.

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
How the U.S. Uses Globalization to Cheat Poor Countries Out of Trillions
(RealPlayer Presentation)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8171.htm

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: How the U.S. Uses Globalization to Cheat Poor Countries Out of Trillions
November 9th, 2004
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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I have to quote Toro from an old thread on
this matter:

Even though the trade in oil is in US dollars, which means there is an underlying demand for dollars, the effects are marginal because ultimately, what matters is the domicile of transacting parties.

Thus if Canada sells oil to Japan, what really matters is the loonie/yen relationship because ultimately, the transaction will be settled in those currencies, even if it is accounted for in US dollars.

The yen will be swapped for US dollars, then US dollars will be swapped for Canadian dollars. Thus, yen are being sold and loonies are being bought. In this transaction, dollars play a very minor role. That's why switching the contract currency from dollars to Euros would only have a slight effect on the demand for dollars.

--------------------end of quote

I'm afraid this conversation is more that of
ideological believers rather than a real understanding
of what creates value in the dollar or the euro.

Who determines
its value by setting interest rates that control
the money supply to avoid too much inflation or
too much deflation and rapid dumping of
one currency in favor of another changes the
value only if it is of a certain huge quantity
to have any effect.

Links on this matter from political partisans
certainly don't prove anything.

I've checked this matter with bloggers and forums
around the world and most agree this is one of
those conspiracy theories ardently championed.

Economic theory is far more interesting
than ideological warfare.

Even the EU finds the continuing devaluing of
the dollar not to its best interest.

This point is never met head on.

And another point gleaned
from another forum :

"Before going on to look at the implications of the war for the dollar, it is worth asking 'does it matter if the dollar is the world's reserve currency?'"

"After all, the pound sterling was an important reserve currency until the late 60s, and this did not seem to do much for the British economy."

Long after the arabs took over their own oil.

"The vast majority of US-dollar denominated assets are held in Europe and (East) Asia, and it is the sentiments of investors in these regions that will determine whether the US remains dominant as a reserve currency. In economic terms, a decision by OPEC to quote in euros rather than dollars would make very little difference."
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

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Hi! JimMoyer

People with your views or beliefs always provide information without sources or links. When people like me provide the sources and links, the claims then become that I've not got the time to read them ...... but then you continue making your retarded statements which are not backed up with any facts.

You got no time to read, but you got lots of time to spread your support of Israel and the policies of both the American and Israeli governments.

Furthermore; you and others would mock those that offer the facts and research material which present the facts.

Calm
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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JimMoyer

Good posts - calm, reflective and am delighted to see we have a mutual forum buddy in "Toro"....I read all he is kind enough to share with people who rarely thank him for his work.

I also take note of the language Paranoid is using against you and wonder why two posters were chastized yesterday for less than
the strong language I am reading against you.

Paranoid writes ...
"but then you continue making your retarded statements which are not backed up with any facts.." Quite untrue and unnecessary.

Because the writer is obviously a liberal, am I supposed to sit quietly and observe the insults lobbed at you?

Is this how the forum "dynamic" works? Please enlighten me.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Paranoid Dot Calm said:
That is how the U.S. operates.

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
How the U.S. Uses Globalization to Cheat Poor Countries Out of Trillions
(RealPlayer Presentation)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8171.htm

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: How the U.S. Uses Globalization to Cheat Poor Countries Out of Trillions
November 9th, 2004
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251

I listened to the presentation Calm. Two questions:

Why would companies support policies that would impoverish their customer base abroad?

Why would America want to weaken its allies on the front lines of an (essentially economic) war on communism?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
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Actually I have read reviews on his book and the questions were raised, regardless though, very valid questions, which I'm sure can never be answered. Nevertheless, this interview is more blather from Democracy now, I have caught them 3 times with their conspiracy theories with lies, a conspiracy theory is always so complex you have a hard time presenting evidence of any kind, that's why they remain so popular and go on for decades without any answers.

There most recent nonsense was an interview with a so called "expert" on the white phosphorous bombing in Iraq. The chemical that burns through human tissue and leaves clothes intact :roll: . It doesn't take much effort to seek the truth, it's usually on the surface, but not as exciting.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

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Hi! I Think Not

I suppose that the result would be to have countries more dependent upon the U.S.. Not everything is money. But to owe somebody money gives a negotiating stance or position.

JimMoyer

I'm not talking about the Euro.
I'm talking about an Arab currency.

Are you suggesting that if the Arabs all sold their oil for the Dinar that the U.S. hegemony would survive?

Another thing I notice about Americans ....

If they don't have an answer ..... they blame everything on a conspiracy source or a one-sided source which is not to be trusted.

Any source is more credible then a U.S. government source.

Operation Northwoods was signed off on by every member of the Joint Chief's. This was not a bunch of clowns standing around a water cooler. And .... the U.S. was quite prepared to kill, maim and destroy Americans and their communities just to bullsh?t a nation into war.

And today .... they wanna play the "We're A Bunch Of Sweetie Pies" trip.

Pentagon Proposed Pretexts For Cuba Invasion In 1962
April 30, 2001

In his new exposé of the National Security Agency entitled Body of Secrets, author James Bamford highlights a set of proposals on Cuba by the Joint Chiefs of Staff codenamed OPERATION NORTHWOODS.

This document, titled “Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba” was provided by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962, as the key component of Northwoods. Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake “Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington,” including “sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated),” faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a “Remember the Maine” incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods “may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.”

Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba [includes cover memoranda], March 13, 1962, TOP SECRET, 15 pp.
(PDF Document)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

More concerning Operation Northwoods here:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430
Operation Rockingham
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rockingham

Gulf of Tonkin Incident
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident

And this scam was the greatest ....

A Debate on One of the Most Frequently Cited Justifications for the 1991 Persian Gulf War: Did PR Firm Hill & Knowlton Invent the Story of Iraqi Soldiers Pulling Kuwaiti Babies From Incubators?
December 02, 2003
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/02/1540237

More Concerning The Incubator Scam here
"Wagging the Dog": The Great Incubator Scam of 1990
A Joint U.S./Kuwaiti Production

February 15, 1998

As the U.S. gears up for a military assault against Iraq, government officials are working overtime to sell the people on the pretext for a war. Saddam Hussein, they scream, is a "madman" and a "threat to the world" who must be stopped by overwhelming military force.

In this situation, it is useful to look back on the lies that paved the way for the U.S. bombing and invasion of Iraq in 1991. Military briefers, Capitol Hill politicians, think tank "experts" and major media reporters worked together like a U.S.-style Ministry of Information to accuse Iraq of multiple atrocities and crimes. Many of these widely publicized stories turned out to be lies. But facts which came to light later to reveal the truth were simply not considered "important news."

One of the most sensational stories of supposed Iraqi atrocities was the report that Iraqi troops who marched into Kuwait in August 1990 had taken 312 babies out of incubators at a Kuwait City hospital and left them on the floor to die. This story was a key piece in the campaign to paint Iraq as totally evil--and to portray the U.S. war against Iraq as a mission to "rescue" Kuwait and "restore democracy."

But, as John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton recount in their book Toxic Sludge Is Good for You!: Lies, Damn Lies and the Public Relations Industry (Common Courage Press, 1995), the incubator story was a complete hoax. It was cooked up by a public relations firm hired by the reactionary oil kingdom of Kuwait.

In the current movie Wag the Dog, White House operatives work with a Hollywood producer to "stage" a whole phony war using doctored video footage and other devices in order to divert attention from a Presidential sex scandal. Some reviewers have described the premise of the movie as "implausible." But director Berry Levinson cited the Kuwaiti incubator scam as one of the real-life events that inspired the movie.

The incubator story was part of a pro-Kuwait campaign handled by Hill & Knowlton (H&K), then the largest PR firm in the world. H&K had close inside connections to the highest levels of government, both Republican and Democrat. Its Washington office was run by Craig Fuller, a close friend and political advisor of President Bush. Robert Gray, chairman of H&K/USA, was a leading figure in Ronald Reagan's two presidential campaigns. Lauri Fitz-Pegado, the head of H&K's Kuwait campaign, had worked for Ron Brown, who became the Secretary of Commerce in the Clinton administration. H&K senior vice president Thomas Ross was a Pentagon spokesman during the Carter administration.

H&K had plenty of experience dressing up brutal pro-U.S. regimes like the rulers of Kuwait. Their other clients included Indonesia and Turkey.

As Stauber and Rampton point out, "Every big media event needs what journalists and flacks alike refer to as `the hook.' An ideal hook becomes the central element of a story that makes it newsworthy, evokes a strong emotional response, and sticks in the memory. In the case of the Gulf War, the `hook' was invented by Hill & Knowlton."

On October 10, 1990 California Democrat Tom Lantos and Illinois Republican John Porter held a hearing that appeared to be an official congressional proceeding. In reality, this was a Hill & Knowlton PR event. The hearing was held by a group of politicians calling themselves the Congressional Human Rights Caucus, headed up by Lantos and Porter. These two politicians also co-chaired the Human Rights Foundation, which had office space in H&K's Washington, D.C. headquarters.

The highlight of the October 10 "hearing" was the testimony of a 15-year-old Kuwaiti, known only by her first name of Nayirah. The Human Rights Caucus said her last name was being kept hidden due to fears of Iraqi reprisals against her family. Sobbing, she claimed that she witnessed first-hand the Iraqi soldiers yanking babies out of incubators at the al-Adden hospital.

This testimony was used to sway public opinion--at a time when there were large demonstrations around the country against the U.S. war moves and polls by major news organizations indicated strong opposition to the taking of military action against Iraq. During the period from October 10 to the start of the air war, the "babies taken from incubators" story was repeated many times by the newspapers, TV and radio. It was raised at the UN Security Council. President Bush told the story in a speech in January 1991, shortly before he launched the bombings on Iraq.

But, as Stauber and Rampton point out, "Hill & Knowlton and Congressman Lantos had failed to reveal that Nayirah was a member of the Kuwaiti Royal Family. Her father, in fact, was Saud Nasir al-Sabah, Kuwait's Ambassador to the U.S., who sat listening in the hearing room during her testimony. The Caucus also failed to reveal that H&K vice-president Lauri Fitz-Pegado had coached Nayirah in what even the Kuwaitis' own investigators later confirmed was false testimony."

By the time the truth came out, the U.S. had brought massive destruction to Iraq with weeks of bombing and killed 200,000 Iraqis. According to Stauber and Rampton, "Following the war, human rights investigators attempted to confirm Nayirah's story and could find no witnesses or other evidence to support it. Amnesty International, which had fallen for the story, was forced to issue an embarrassing retraction. Nayirah herself was unavailable for comment."

Whenever Hitler was about to launch a new war of aggression, he would accuse his opponents of atrocities that never happened. These lies would be repeated over and over again by official spokesmen and the press. The Nazi government would then launch a pre-planned attack. This Hitler technique is called the "Big Lie."

U.S. war-makers used this same technique as part of preparations for the 1991 war against Iraq. And seven years later, the "Big Lie" machine is going full speed once again.

Calm
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
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That wasn't the point of the presentation though Calm. The issue Perkins raised was how the US "siphons" money from the poor countries. Considering that there has been a major decrease in poverty around the world is just another nail in Perkins coffin.

I can't see any difference the Dinar would make over the Euro, if anything it would have less impact. You have any analysis to that effect?
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

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Do you have an analyisis for your contentions?

I'm not gonna do the research for you if you can't provide your own. You'd rather just trash others as opposed to offering your own. Your damn awful good at making blanket statements.

Calm
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
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I already posted a link from a British economic analysis regarding the Euro vs Dollar as opposed to you that suddenly jumped from the Euro in this debate to the Dinar with nothing other than your opinion, and that is fine, so long as we agree its your opinion and not fact. Two or three economists that want to profit from selling their opinions do not consitute fact Calm, thousands of economists laugh at such things.