US troops used chemical weapons

peapod

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The Pentagon's admission - despite earlier denials - that US troops used white phosphorus as a weapon in Falluja last year is more than a public relations issue - it has opened up a debate about the use of this weapon in modern warfare.


The admission contradicted a statement this week from the new and clearly under-briefed US ambassador in London Robert Holmes Tuttle that US forces "do not use napalm or white phosphorus as weapons".

The official line to that point had been that WP, or Willie Pete to use its old name from Vietnam, was used only to illuminate the battlefield and to provide smoke for camouflage.

'Shake 'n Bake'


This line however crumbled when bloggers (whose influence must not be under-estimated these days) ferreted out an article published by the US Army's Field Artillery Magazine in its issue of March/April this year.

The article, written by a captain, a first lieutenant and a sergeant, was a review of the attack on Falluja in November 2004 and in particular of the use of indirect fire, mainly mortars.

It makes quite clear that WP was used as a weapon not just as illumination or camouflage.

It's [WP] not forbidden if it is used within the context of a military application which does not require or does not intend to use the toxic properties

Peter Kaiser

"WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes where we could not get effects on them with HE [High Explosive]. We fired "shake and bake" missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out," the article said.

In another passage the authors noted that they could have used other smoke munitions and "saved our WP for lethal missions".



A word about the term "shake and bake." Anyone with a family to feed in the US knows what this term, properly "Shake 'n Bake, means. Made by Kraft, it is a seasoning which is shaken onto chicken before baking. Its use gives the article the smack of reality. It's the kind of thing US soldiers would say.

Vietnam precedent

This tactic of forcing opponents out of cover is not new and should not really have come as a surprise. An article looking back at the Vietnam war published in 1996 by a US armoured unit (1st Battalion, 69th Armor) referred to "Willie Pete" weapons and their use in getting North Vietnamese troops to leave their positions:

"Our normal procedure was to fire these things at a hillside as soon as possible in order to get them out of the fighting compartment."

One wonders of course if, in Falluja, WP was used more directly to kill insurgents and not just to flush them out. In battle, soldiers take short cuts and this seems an obvious one.


Embed report

Evidence that this happened in Falluja comes from an article by a reporter, Darrin Mortenson of the North County Times in California, who was embedded with US marines there.


He wrote about a mortar unit receiving coordinates of a target and opening fire:

"The boom kicked the dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call 'shake 'n bake' into a cluster of buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week."


The tactic therefore seems to have been not to flush them out first but to bombard them simultaneously with the two types of weapons.


Chemical Weapons Convention

The debate about WP centres partly though not wholly on whether it is really a chemical weapon. Such weapons are outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) to which the United States is a party.

The CWC is monitored by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, based in The Hague. Its spokesman Peter Kaiser was asked if WP was banned by the CWC and he had this to say:


White phosphorous being used over Falluja

"No it's not forbidden by the CWC if it is used within the context of a military application which does not require or does not intend to use the toxic properties of white phosphorus. White phosphorus is normally used to produce smoke, to camouflage movement.

"If that is the purpose for which the white phosphorus is used, then that is considered under the Convention legitimate use.

"If on the other hand the toxic properties of white phosphorus, the caustic properties, are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because the way the Convention is structured or the way it is in fact applied, any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons."

WP - the arguments


So WP itself is not a chemical weapon and therefore not illegal. However, used in a certain way, it might become one. Not that "a certain way" can easily be defined, if at all.


The US can say therefore that this is not a chemical weapon and further, it argues that it is not the toxic properties but the heat from WP which causes the damage. And, this argument goes, since incendiary weapons are not covered by the CWC, therefore the use of WP against combatants is not prohibited.

Critics claim that the US used chemical weapons in Falluja, on the grounds that it is the toxic properties which cause the harm. The UK's Guardian newspaper for example said: "The US used chemical weapons in Iraq - and then lied about it."

There is an intense debate on the blog sites about this issue. "It's not a chemical weapon" says Liberal Against Terror. "CONFIRMED: WP is a CW if used to cause harm through toxic properties," says Daily Kos.

Tactical use of WP


The other argument is about the use of WP as a weapon.

The initial denials from the Pentagon suggest a certain hesitation, embarrassment even, about such a tactic. Some decisions must have been taken in the past to limit its use in certain battlefield scenarios (urban warfare for example). It is not used against civilians.

However the United States has not signed up to a convention covering incendiary weapons which seeks to restrict their use.

This convention has the cumbersome title "Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons." Agreed in 1980, its Protocol III covers "Prohibitions or Restrictions on use of Incendiary Weapons."

This prohibits WP or other incendiaries (like flamethrowers) against civilians or civilian objects and its use by air strikes against military targets located in a concentration of civilians. It also limits WP use by other means (such as mortars or direct fire from tanks) against military targets in a civilian area. Such targets have to be separated from civilian concentrations and "all feasible precautions" taken to avoid civilian casualties.

Notwithstanding the US position on the Convention, the use of WP against insurgents within Falluja does at least bring the issue into discussion, though one should note that the soldiers who wrote the Field Artillery article do say that their unit "encountered few civilians in its attack south".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4442988.stm
 

peapod

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sons of bitches, they used it on civilians.. :?

Did US troops use chemical weapons in Falluja? The answer is yes. The proof is not to be found in the documentary broadcast on Italian TV last week, which has generated gigabytes of hype on the internet. It's a turkey, whose evidence that white phosphorus was fired at Iraqi troops is flimsy and circumstantial(1). But the bloggers debating it found the smoking gun.

The first account they unearthed comes from a magazine published by the US Army. In the March 2005 edition of Field Artillery, officers from the 2nd Infantry's Fire Support Element boast about their role in the attack on Falluja in November last year. On page 26 is the following text. "White Phosphorous. WP proved to be an effective and versatile munition. We used it for screening missions at two breeches and, later in the fight, as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes when we could not get effects on them with HE [high explosives]. We fired "shake and bake" missions at the insurgents, using WP to flush them out and HE to take them out."(2)

The second comes from a report in California's North County Times, by a staff reporter embedded with the Marines during the siege of Falluja in April 2004. ""Gun up!" Millikin yelled ..., grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube. "Fire!" Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it. The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call "shake 'n' bake" into a cluster of buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week."(3)

White phosporus is not listed in the shedules of the Chemical Weapons Convention. It can be legally used as a flare to illuminate the battlefield, or to produce smoke to hide troop movements from the enemy. Like other unlisted substances, it may be deployed for "Military purposes ... not dependent on the use of the toxic properties of chemicals as a method of warfare"(4). But it becomes a chemical weapon as soon as it is used directly against people. A chemical weapon can be "any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm"(5).

White phosphorus is fat-soluble and burns spontaneously on contact with the air. According to globalsecurity.org, "The burns usually are multiple, deep, and variable in size. The solid in the eye produces severe injury. The particles continue to burn unless deprived of atmospheric oxygen. ... If service members are hit by pieces of white phosphorus, it could burn right down to the bone."(6) As it oxidises, it produces a smoke composed of phosphorous pentoxide. According to the standard US industrial safety sheet, the smoke "releases heat on contact with moisture and will burn mucous surfaces. ... Contact with substance can cause severe eye burns and permanent damage."(7)

Until last week, the US State Department maintained that US forces used white phosphorus shells "very sparingly in Fallujah, for illumination purposes. They were fired into the air to illuminate enemy positions at night, not at enemy fighters."(8) Confronted with the new evidence, on Thursday it changed its position. "We have learned that some of the information we were provided ... is incorrect. White phosphorous shells, which produce smoke, were used in Fallujah not for illumination but for screening purposes, i.e., obscuring troop movements and, according to ... Field Artillery magazine, 'as a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes ....' The article states that U.S. forces used white phosphorous rounds to flush out enemy fighters so that they could then be killed with high explosive rounds."(9) The US government, in other words, appears to admit that white phosphorus was used in Falluja as a chemical weapon.

The invaders have been forced into a similar climbdown over the use of napalm in Iraq. In December 2004, the Labour MP Alice Mahon asked the British armed forces minister Adam Ingram "whether napalm or a similar substance has been used by the Coalition in Iraq (a) during and (b) since the war". "No napalm," the minister replied, "has been used by Coalition forces in Iraq either during the war-fighting phase or since."(10)

This seemed odd to those who had been paying attention. There were widespread reports that in March 2003 US Marines had dropped incendiary bombs around the bridges over the Tigris and the Saddam Canal on the way to Baghdad. The commander of Marine Air Group 11 admitted that "We napalmed both those approaches"(11). Embedded journalists reported that napalm was dropped at Safwan Hill on the border with Kuwait(12). In August 2003 the Pentagon confirmed that the Marines had dropped "Mark 77 firebombs." Though the substance they contained was not napalm, its function, the Pentagon's information sheet said, was "remarkably similar"(13). While napalm is made from petrol and polystyrene, the gel in the Mark 77 is made from kerosene and polystyrene. I doubt it makes much difference to the people it lands on.

So in January this year, the MP Harry Cohen refined Alice Mahon's question. He asked "whether Mark 77 firebombs have been used by Coalition forces". "The United States," the minister replied "have confirmed to us that they have not used Mark 77 firebombs, which are essentially napalm canisters, in Iraq at any time."(14) The US government had lied to him. Mr Ingram had to retract his statements in a private letter to the MPs in June(15).

We were told that the war with Iraq was necessary for two reasons. Saddam Hussein possessed biological and chemical weapons and might one day use them against another nation. And the Iraqi people needed to be liberated from his oppressive regime, which had, among its other crimes, used chemical weapons to kill them. Tony Blair, Colin Powell, William Shawcross, David Aaronovitch, Nick Cohen, Ann Clwyd and many others referred, in making their case, to Saddam's gassing of the Kurds in Halabja in 1988. They accused those who opposed the war of caring nothing for the welfare of the Iraqis.

Given that they care so much, why has none of these hawks spoken out against the use of unconventional weapons by coalition forces? Ann Clwyd, the Labour MP who turned from peace campaigner to chief apologist for an illegal war, is, as far as I can discover, the only one of these armchair warriors to engage with the issue. In May this year, she wrote to the Guardian to assure us that reports that a "modern form of napalm" has been used by US forces "are completely without foundation. Coalition forces have not used napalm - either during operations in Falluja, or at any other time."(16) How did she know? The foreign office minister told her. Before the invasion, Ann Clwyd travelled through Iraq to investigate Saddam's crimes against his people. She told the Commons that what she had discovered moved her to tears. After the invasion, she took the minister's word at face value, when a thirty-second search on the internet could have told her it was bunkum. It makes you wonder whether she, or any of the other enthusiasts for war, really gave a damn about the people for whom they claimed to be campaigning.

Saddam Hussein, facing a possible death sentence, is accused of mass murder, torture, false imprisonment, the embezzlement of billions and the use of chemical weapons. He is certainly guilty on all counts. So, it now seems, are the people who overthrew him.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=9120
 

missile

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If there is any irony left,some of this stuff will be used on the US troops by the iraqis[most of their weaponry has been taken from the US forces anyway]
 

peapod

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Funny innit?? or is it more FECKING HYPOCRITES!!!!!!! Oh I see :roll: :roll: when saddam used it on kurds, outrage! but not when they used it. How many civilians were roasted in Falluja.

SUMMARY: IRAQ HAS POSSIBLY EMPLOYED PHOSPHOROUS
CHEMICAL
WEAPONS AGAINST THE KURDISH POPULATION IN AREAS ALONG THE
IRAQI-TURKISH-IRANIAN BORDERS. KURDISH RESISTANCE IS LOSING ITS
STRUGGLE AGAINST SADDAM HUSSEIN'S FORCES. KURDISH REBELS AND
REFUGEES' PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS AND PERCEPTIONS ARE PROVIDED.

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_22431050_91r.html


I have only just BEGUN on this topic :twisted:
 

peapod

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Out of the mouth of lil chimp himself!!!!

Let me say a few words about important values we must demonstrate while all of us serve in government. First, we must always maintain the highest ethical standards. We must always ask ourselves not only what is legal, but what is right. There is no goal of government worth accomplishing if it cannot be accomplished with integrity.

Second, I want us to set an example of humility. As you work for the federal government there is no excuse for arrogance, and there’s never a reason to show disrespect for others. A new tone in Washington must begin with decency and fairness. I want everyone who represents our government to be known for these values

http://streaming.americanprogress.org/ThinkProgress/2005/bush_ethical_standards.240.180.mov.html
 

peapod

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interview between Amy Goodman, host of DemocracyNOW, and former US Army interrogator Specialist Tony Lgouranis. (I have to warn you, this interview can get graphic at times. If you are squeemish I'd look out for it. I'm not including the entire interview because it is long and sometimes off topic...but I do encourage you to go to democracynow.org and read it.)

AMY GOODMAN: You were in Fallujah?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Right.

AMY GOODMAN: What were you doing there?

TONY LAGOURANIS: My job in Fallujah was to go through the clothes and pockets of the dead bodies that we were picking up on the streets, and we would bring them back to a warehouse, and I would go through their pockets and try to identify them, and read whatever intel or anything that they had on them.

AMY GOODMAN: Because you spoke Arabic?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Right. Right. That's why I was sent there.

AMY GOODMAN: How many dead bodies, corpses did you go through?

TONY LAGOURANIS: 500.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about that experience?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Sure. I mean, you know, obviously it was terrible, you know, like these bodies had been laying out in the street in the sun for days, for sometimes ten days before we picked them up. They had been eaten by dogs and birds and maggots, and the Army thought -- actually, it wasn't the Army, it was the Department of Defense had sent this electronic equipment for us to use to like take the retinal scans and take their fingerprints, but it was just impossible because these guys -- they didn't have eyes anymore. They didn't have fingerprints anymore.

Then we couldn't bury the prisoners, either. Because they hadn't really figured out how they were going to do that, so they were just stacking up in the warehouse in Fallujah, and that's where we were living and sleeping and eating. With all of those dead bodies.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean they didn't have eyes, they didn't have fingerprints, they were burned?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Well, certainly, some of them were burned. I mean, some of them didn't have arms anymore or whatever, but I mean, they were just so rotten that their eyes were gone. They were just sockets with maggots.

AMY GOODMAN: We did a piece recently on the use of white phosphorus, “Whiskey Pete,” I think it's referred to in the military. There was an Italian documentary that just came out talking about the use of this, not to light up the sky, but to burn, to incinerate the victims in Fallujah at the time that you were there. Did you see use of this?

TONY LAGOURANIS: No, well, not that I know of. I don't know. I mean, I only heard about that recently, probably from your report, but no, I don't know anything about that.

AMY GOODMAN: Hmm. You slept with the bodies, meaning that they were at the -- you had to sleep in this warehouse?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Right.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about that? And who you understood the people who were dead to be?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Well, a lot of them were certainly insurgents. You know, a lot of them had weapons. They had hand grenades, they had ammo vests, but a lot of them weren't, either. We had women and children, old men, young boys. So, you know, it's hard to say. I think initially, the reason that we were doing this was they were trying to find foreign fighters. They were trying to prove that there were a lot of foreign fighters in Fallujah. So, mainly, that's what we were going for, but most of them really didn't have I.D.'s but maybe half of them had I.D.'s. Very few of them had foreign I.D.'s. There were people working with me who would -- in an effort to sort of cook the books, you know they would find a Koran on the guy and the Koran was printed in Algeria, and they would mark him down as an Algerian, or you know guys would come in with a black shirt and khaki pants and they would say, well, this is the Hezbollah uniform and they would mark him down as a Lebanese, which was ridiculous, but -- you know.

AMY GOODMAN: So, what did you say?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Well, I was only a specialist, so actually, you know, I did say something to the staff sergeant, who was really in charge, and you know, I just got yelled down you know, shot down.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean shot down?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Well, he just told me, just put me in my place. He said, this is not for you to decide. I'm saying he's Lebanese, he's Lebanese. That's it.

AMY GOODMAN: What about the women and kids?

TONY LAGOURANIS: I don't know. I mean, I don't know, I would get a kid burnt to a crisp. I don't know. I don't know what to say. We had women and children.

AMY GOODMAN: Did you have discussions about that?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Not really. No. I mean, we just sort of like noted it. Too bad, a kid died. Too bad, we had a woman. We didn't really talk about that.

AMY GOODMAN: How many people would you estimate died in Fallujah.

TONY LAGOURANIS: I have no idea. I don't know. I remember hearing the -- a number of 10,000 out there from the marines, but I don't know if that's accurate.

AMY GOODMAN: And could you estimate how many of them were what the U.S. Military calls “insurgents”?

TONY LAGOURANIS: Well, I think we probably got-- we got a small number, we got 500 bodies. And from that sample, I would say about 20% of them actually had weapons on them. But -- so, who knows. I don't know. I imagine, I think most people left Fallujah who weren't going to stay there and fight. But I really don't know. I cannot really say.

So, there were women and children there. And only 20% of the bodies had weapons or documents, and though he does say that he can't imagine why anyone would stay if they weren't going to fight...well, why did people stay in New Orleans when a hurricane was coming? They didn't want to leave there homes, they didn't have the means or money to travel, they couldn't leave a loved one who was to sick to travel...the reasons one would stay in a war zone are endless. Not to mention that travel right now in Iraq could also be considered as dangerous. Would you rather risk your life defending your home or at a checkpoint where you are a sitting duck.

So I can't pretend to know all the answers. I don't know for a fact what has really happened over there. All I do know for a fact is that these weapons seem to be more danger than they are worth. If our "job" over there is to defend freedom and make a safe place then why do stories keep coming out one after another where our government seems to be lowering itself to the level of those we claim to be fighting? After WWII the US and Britain made a point of being gracious to the German people to prevent further humiliation and show that we forgave them and what true compassion is. The President and his employees repeatedly made comparison to WWII during and before the elections. How can we possibly say we are like to that time in history when we show none of the same courtesy, but we repeatedly lower ourselves to the level that we claim is the enemy's?

entire interview at ...democracynow.org
 

peapod

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The Pentagon argues that white phosphorus burns people, rather than poisoning them, and is therefore covered only by the protocol on incendiary weapons, which the US has not signed. But white phosphorus is both incendiary and toxic. The gas it produces attacks the mucous membranes, the eyes and the lungs. As Peter Kaiser of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons told the BBC last week, "If ... the toxic properties of white phosphorus, the caustic properties, are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because ... any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons". {4}

The US army knows that its use as a weapon is illegal. In the Battle Book published by US Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, my correspondent David Traynier found the following sentence. "It is against the law of land warfare to employ WP against personnel targets". {5}

Last night the blogger Gabriele Zamparini found a declassified document from the US Department of Defense, dated April 1991, and titled "Possible use of phosphorous chemical". "During the brutal crackdown that followed the Kurdish uprising", it alleges, "Iraqi forces loyal to President Saddam (Hussein) may have possibly used white phosphorous (WP) chemical weapons against Kurdish rebels and the populace in Erbil ... and Dohuk provinces, Iraq. The WP chemical was delivered by artillery rounds and helicopter gunships ... These reports of possible WP chemical weapon attacks spread quickly ... hundreds of thousands of Kurds fled from these two areas" {6}. The Pentagon is in no doubt, in other words, that white phosphorus is a chemical weapon.

The insurgents would be just as dead today if they were killed by other means. So does it matter if chemical weapons were mixed with other munitions? It does. Anyone who has seen those photos of the lines of blind veterans at the remembrance services for the first world war will surely understand the point of international law, and the dangers of undermining it.

But we shouldn't forget that the use of chemical weapons was a war crime within a war crime within a war crime. Both the invasion of Iraq and the assault on Falluja were illegal acts of aggression. Before attacking the city in November last year, the Marines stopped the men "of fighting age" from leaving {7}. Many women and children stayed as well: the Observer's correspondent estimated that between 30,000 and 50,000 civilians were left in the city {8}. The Marines then treated Falluja as if its only inhabitants were fighters. They levelled thousands of buildings, illegally denied access to the Iraqi Red Crescent, and, according to the UN's special rapporteur, used "hunger and deprivation of water as a weapon of war against the civilian population" {9}.

Over the past week, I have been reading accounts of the assault published in the Marines' journal, the Marine Corps Gazette. The soldiers appear to have believed everything the US government told them. One article claims that "the absence of civilians meant the Marines could employ blast weapons prior to entering houses that had become pillboxes, not homes". {10} Another maintained that "there were less than 500 civilians remaining in the city". It continued: "the heroics [of the Marines] will be the subject of many articles and books in the years to come. The real key to this tactical victory rested in the spirit of the warriors who courageously fought the battle. They deserve all of the credit for liberating Fallujah." {11}

But buried in this hogwash is a revelation of the utmost gravity. An assault weapon the Marines were using had been armed with warheads containing "about 35 percent thermobaric novel explosive (NE) and 65 percent standard high explosive". They deployed it "to cause the roof to collapse and crush the insurgents fortified inside interior rooms". It was used repeatedly: "the expenditure of explosives clearing houses was enormous". {12}

The Marines can scarcely deny that they know what these weapons do. An article published in the Gazette in 2000 details the effects of their use by the Russians in Grozny. Thermobaric, or "fuel-air" weapons, it says, form a cloud of volatile gases or finely powdered explosives. "This cloud is then ignited and the subsequent fireball sears the surrounding area while consuming the oxygen in this area. The lack of oxygen creates an enormous overpressure ... Personnel under the cloud are literally crushed to death. Outside the cloud area, the blast wave travels at some 3,000 meters per second ... As a result, a fuel-air explosive can have the effect of a tactical nuclear weapon without residual radiation ... Those personnel caught directly under the aerosol cloud will die from the flame or overpressure. For those on the periphery of the strike, the injuries can be severe. Burns, broken bones, contusions from flying debris and blindness may result. Further, the crushing injuries from the overpressure can create air embolism within blood vessels, concussions, multiple internal hemorrhages in the liver and spleen, collapsed lungs, rupture of the eardrums and displacement of the eyes from their sockets." {13] It is hard to see how you could use these weapons in Falluja without killing civilians.

This looks to me like a convincing explanation of the damage done to Falluja, a city in which between 30,000 and 50,000 civilians might have been taking refuge. It could also explain the civilian casualties shown in the film. So the question has now widened: is there any crime the coalition forces have not committed in Iraq?

www.monbiot.com
 

moghrabi

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RE: US troops used chemic

Thanks Pea. Good read but sick content. They are the worst terrorists the world had ever known. First to use Nuclear bomb on Japan and now on civilians in Iraq. The US will not stop at anything. They think they are above the law. Noway.
 

Reverend Blair

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RE: US troops used chemic

The US is in violation of treaties it has signed...again. Somebody, hopefully the Iraqi government, has to lay charges against both the military leaders and the Bush administration for this. Since neither the US nor the Iraqi government have signed the ICC convention, so the Iraqi government is the most likely party to lay charges.

Failing that, once Bush is gone there is nothing stopping the US government from bringing charges against those reponsible. In fact international conventions encourage countries to charge their own war criminals.
 

peapod

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You got that right! in fact it was YOU I think not that remarked some time ago that the war in Iraq was not the same as the vietnam war....yup! but than naplam in the morning and agent orange are not exactly the same as white phorphous or are they??

Oh yes the battle for hearts and minds :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

Reverend Blair

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RE: US troops used chemic

Oh, ITN and the other Bush sycophants on here would love to see this thread disappear. It's clear that the US has committed war crimes and then lied to try to cover it up.

They had a couple of ex-US soldiers who had been at Fallujah on The Hour last week. They verified the use of white phosphorus on people at Fallujah. They verified killing civilians. I don't think anything less than a full investigation of American military and political leaders followed by a criminal trial of anybody involved in the use of white phosphorus, depleted uranium, or napalm is definitely in order.
 

I think not

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peapod said:
You got that right! in fact it was YOU I think not that remarked some time ago that the war in Iraq was not the same as the vietnam war....yup! but than naplam in the morning and agent orange are not exactly the same as white phorphous or are they??

Oh yes the battle for hearts and minds :roll: :roll: :roll:

Prove it
 

I think not

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Re: RE: US troops used chemic

Reverend Blair said:
Oh, ITN and the other Bush sycophants on here would love to see this thread disappear. It's clear that the US has committed war crimes and then lied to try to cover it up

:lol:

Good one.