African Starvation and AIDS

[missile]

The West had given many millions of dollars to combat these horrific problems,but somehow most of the funds seem to be going to buy weapons for the tinpot dictators who rule the nations. Unless,there are ways to directly help the people who need it,we're better off ignoring their cries for help. I suggest donating to Doctors Without Borders.

 

[no1important]

RE: African Starvation an

Well aids would be less prelevent if the so called religious organizations who claim to help people in developing nations would allow the use and supply condom's, that would solve a lot of the problems. Its not just africa either.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: African Starvation an

The west has actually given relatively little. Hardly anybody has reached the 0.7% target, and much of the aid is targeted to benefit our corporations, not the people who need help.

The US likes to claim to be the biggest donor, but much of the US money goes to US pharmaceutical companies and it has fought tooth and nail to keep generic drugs out.

The US has pretty much dropped out of the UN plan as well, leaving other diseases such as malaria and TB underfunded, which becomes much more devastating when combined with AIDS.

The Global Gag Order that Bush reinstituted (Droolin' Ronnie started it originally, Clinton cancelled it, Bush brought it back) doesn't just keep women from getting abortions anymore, it now keeps them from finding out about condom usage too. Oh, and prostitutes can no longer be part of any US-funded program. Next month Bush will likely cut off anybody suspected of masturbation as well.

 

[Travis]

Africa is in the state that it is because Africans allow it to be. Blamming the Religious Organizations, Charity groups, President Bush or the USA is completely reduntant and won't save a single African. Giving money to Africa won't make any difference as it makes in giving money to Native Canadians, or giving money to any other Canadians. When are people ever going to get it (MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM!).
Travis

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: African Starvation and AIDS

Africa is in the state that it is because Africans allow it to be. Blamming the Religious Organizations, Charity groups, President Bush or the USA is completely reduntant and won't save a single African. Giving money to Africa won't make any differnce as it makes in giving money to Native Canadians, or giving money to any other Canadians. When are the boneheads ever going to get it (MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM!).
Travis

Education is the key. When you're looking at populations with literacy rates as low as 50%,40%,30% the future is pretty bleak for the majority of the population.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: African Starvation an

And since there's no money for education, largely because the debt crisis; and few teachers largely because so many have died from AIDS and related illnesses.

Have a look at the history of Africa, Travis. Tell me who has really been running that continent since the beginning of the slave trade.

 

[Travis]

So what is your point, Reverend, just throw money at
Africa, end of problem. Many African countries haven't been paying their debt there bankrupt so you can't blame so called debt crises.
Why are you looking at history of the slave trade, the slave trade ended 100 years ago.
The fact is Africans are running there own continent now and it's been that way for decades, and some countries been going downhill ever since they been running it.
The fact is things were in many ways better in Africa when the Dutch, the English and the French were running it.
At any rate not all things are bad in Africa, many countries are doing much better as long as the people ramain free in those countries.
And the people can trade freely on the open market.
The problem with some countries in Africa are the dictators and the communist back governments that are controlling the free flow trade,
and starving out their own people.

Travis

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: African Starvation and AIDS

So what is your point, Reverend, just throw money at
Africa, end of problem. Many African countries haven't been paying their debt there bankrupt so you can't blame so called debt crises.
Why are you looking at history of the slave trade, the slave trade ended 100 years ago.
The fact is Africans are running there own continent now and it's been that way for decades, and some countries been going downhill ever since they been running it.
The fact is things were in many ways better in Africa when the Dutch, the English and the French were running it.
At any rate not all things are bad in Africa, many countries are doing much better as long as the people ramain free in those countries.
And the people can trade freely on the open market.
The problem with some countries in Africa are the dictators and the communist back governments that are controlling the free flow trade,
and starving out their own people.

Travis

The countries that are not still controlled by the economic interests of their past colonial masters are controlled by dictators and the economic interests of those they are indebted too.

Personally, I don't think throwing money at them is best solution either. There are many stipulations that can be attached to aid aside from enormous interest payments. Even grants come with heavy stipulations, that are almost impossible to match.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: African Starvation an

I think Travis needs a lesson in African history, Said. Care to give it to him?

Here's something for you Travis....The life expectancy in Mozambique is 40 and dropping. Many villages have such a high death rate that they dig up the old graves every 4 or 5 years and move the bodies to mass graves so that there will be room for the new graves.

Do you think we should supply them with money to fight AIDS, including education and condoms...even for prostitutes...or should we send them some used shovels to dig more graves with.

 

[Travis]

The only one that needs a history lesson is you
Your not going to gain anything by patronizing me.
If the money get's to people of mozambique fine, money is a bandaid it allways will be.
The only way AIDS will be stopped in Africa is through lifestyle changes, just like the gays in America changed their lifestyle which slow down the AIDS epidemic, throwing condoms at them is not going to stop it.
Travis

 

[annabattler]

RE: African Starvation an

I think part of the reason that African countries seem to be "stuck",in terms of their economic development must have to do with their history of colonization.
And,I think that colonization (a)re-laid the traditional borders of long-standing tribes,with different cultures and beliefs,,,forcing them to live together(let's not forget the recent Tutsi/Hutu massacre...long,long memories) and (b) disrupted the natural "forward" motion that most societal groups establish.
As with most things,the answers to their troubles must come from the affected populations...if it's not a home grown solution,it will not work,no matter how much money we throw at it.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: African Starvation and AIDS

The only one that needs a history lesson is you
Your not going to gain anything by patronizing me.
If the money get's to people of mozambique fine, money is a bandaid it allways will be.
The only way AIDS will be stopped in Africa is through lifestyle changes, just like the gays in America changed their lifestyle which slow down the AIDS epidemic, throwing condoms at them is not going to stop it.
Travis

Condoms ARE part of a lifestyle change, although it's not the churches responsibility to pass them out.

 

[missile]

One of the groups I do support financially is Pediatric AIDS,and I questioned them about the nature of the drugs they were sending to Africa. I was assured that these were good drugs,and not the old American crap that the companies were trying to dump.I don't believe anybody should donate without the knowledge of what their donations actually are.

 

[TenPenny]

I think the original point, while bluntly made, is actually not far off what Geldof has recently been saying.

Money itself is not the point, and is not the solution. Geldof actually has learned that much of the original "Live Aid" hoopla was seen as patronizing and insulting by much of Africa.

 

[Reverend Blair]

If the money get's to people of mozambique fine, money is a bandaid it allways will be.

That's not accurate. Money can bring real change because it can pay for education and appropriate technologies.

The only way AIDS will be stopped in Africa is through lifestyle changes, just like the gays in America changed their lifestyle which slow down the AIDS epidemic, throwing condoms at them is not going to stop it.

Condom use was a major factor in getting AIDS under control here. So were things like needle exchange programs.

Gays in North America generally have access to, and enough money to pay for, condoms. In addition to that, there are many free condom distribution programs in North America. Programs like that are being denied to the people of Africa.

As with most things,the answers to their troubles must come from the affected populations...if it's not a home grown solution,it will not work,no matter how much money we throw at it.

That's increasingly difficult because there is a generation that is pretty much missing. That generation are the working people...the doctors, teachers, nurses, farmers, whatever.

Those that remain need help...a lot of help...from the outside. Even little things like radio shows that educate help a lot because it helps people to learn not just about AIDS, but about basic things like traditional farming techniques, that are not being passed down because so much of one generation is dead.

The answers have to come from within, but the aid has to come from without.

A quick, non-AIDS example. A lot of villages had no way to shell peanuts, a food staple in that area as well as a cash crop. These people were peanut-dependent. They had been displaced so often and so much of the population was missing from AIDS and war that they simply lacked the manpower.

A couple of aid workers got together with an engineer friend and designed a machine, made mostly out of concrete, that shelled peanuts. They tried it out and the people who were going to be using it made some suggestions. They revised it accordingly. It is simple, cheap to build, easy to maintain, and made out of locally available materials.

The people who needed the aid identified the problem and their input was used to revise the machine, but they lacked the skills to design it and build it. They now have they skills to build more.

 

[missile]

We don't need any more Mother Theresa solutions there,either.She collected millions in charity to help the ones dying of AIDS,and all she ever did for them was provide a place for them to die in!

 

[Reverend Blair]

One of the groups I do support financially is Pediatric AIDS,and I questioned them about the nature of the drugs they were sending to Africa.

One of the problems Pediatric AIDS faces regularly is not having the money to get the drugs to Africa. Shipping is expensive because of refrigeration and time sensitivity, but as aid programs go it is actually really cheap. That's something that the government could be working on.

I think the original point, while bluntly made, is actually not far off what Geldof has recently been saying.

Money is not the point, but it is certainly a factor. Schools need to be built, so do hospitals and so on. This is where the debt crisis comes in...governments are spending all of their money servicing debt, so they can't supply any help to their own people.

At the same time aid workers need to be paid, food aid and medicines aren't free, and there is a real need to provide materials, training and equipment that is both appropriate to developing nations and advanced enough to make a difference.

All those things require money, and we're the ones who control that money.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: African Starvation and AIDS

Africa is in the state that it is because Africans allow it to be. Blamming the Religious Organizations, Charity groups, President Bush or the USA is completely reduntant and won't save a single African. Giving money to Africa won't make any difference as it makes in giving money to Native Canadians, or giving money to any other Canadians. When are people ever going to get it (MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM!).
Travis

:? I'm not too sure if allowing it to happen is the right idea. Many running the countries, either gov't or religious groups do take advantage of the "ignorance is Bliss" and allows people not to learn. Or in some cases they can even misinform the population of a certain thing, such as scaring the population that polio vaccines are a western plot to sterilize muslem women. Yeah, that was a good one. :lol: In some cases people are seeking advice from witch doctors which hand out charms or do rituals to clense the disease.

In anycase money used to help should be used for the education of the population, that way they won't allow it to happen. But getting the money to be used properly is the hard part with corruption of the ruling elite causing a roadblock to progress.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: African Starvation and AIDS

Africa is in the state that it is because Africans allow it to be. Blamming the Religious Organizations, Charity groups, President Bush or the USA is completely reduntant and won't save a single African. Giving money to Africa won't make any difference as it makes in giving money to Native Canadians, or giving money to any other Canadians. When are people ever going to get it (MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM!).
Travis

:? I'm not too sure if allowing it to happen is the right idea. Many running the countries, either gov't or religious groups do take advantage of the "ignorance is Bliss" and allows people not to learn. Or in some cases they can even misinform the population of a certain thing, such as scaring the population that polio vaccines are a western plot to sterilize muslem women. Yeah, that was a good one.

:x In some cases people are seeking advice from witch doctors which hand out charms or do rituals to clense the disease. One common myth of prevention is that unprotected sex with a virgin (the younger the better) will cure the disease.

In anycase money used to help should be used for the education of the population, that way they won't allow it to happen. But getting the money to be used properly is the hard part with corruption of the ruling elite causing a roadblock to progress.

 

[Stretch]

evening all....."they" tptb, dont want to help South Africa, it's about population control and its been happening for quite sometime, with the "help" of WHO, IMF, World Bank.....etc.........

Polio vaccine genocide in Uganda
http://www.whale.to/a/nkuba.htm

and also, a report I have mentioned on this forum b4...
Global 2000 Report to the President, Blueprint for Genocide
http://www.geocities.com/lord_visionary/global2000report.htm

Eliminate the Useless Eaters
By Paula Demers
http://www.conceptual.net.au/~jackc/useless.htm

THE NEW WORLD ORDER FILES
CLUB OF ROME
http://www.seanscreenplays.com/BeteNoireCD/Articles1/CLUB OF ROME.htm

Population "Control",
New World Order Style
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/nwopopcontrol.shtml