Kyoto Treaty Hypocrisy Analyzed ???

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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The Kyoto treaty aspires to do right.
The science may appear totally proven but that debate is fruitless because of its intolerance for discussion and because the questions of how we treat the environment and how we provide for our energy needs are important in and of itself.

But this analysis of what people say and what is really getting done is worth a look on the Kyoto Treaty.

Read the details.


Greenhouse Hypocrisy

By Robert J. Samuelson
Post
Wednesday, June 29, 2005; A21



Almost a decade ago I suggested that global warming would become a "gushing" source of political hypocrisy. So it has. Politicians and scientists constantly warn of the grim outlook, and the subject is on the agenda of the upcoming Group of Eight summit of world economic leaders. But all this sound and fury is mainly exhibitionism -- politicians pretending they're saving the planet. The truth is that, barring major technological advances, they can't (and won't) do much about global warming. It would be nice if they admitted that, though this seems unlikely.

Europe is the citadel of hypocrisy. Considering Europeans' contempt for the United States and George Bush for not embracing the Kyoto Protocol, you'd expect that they would have made major reductions in greenhouse gas emissions -- the purpose of Kyoto. Well, not exactly. From 1990 (Kyoto's base year for measuring changes) to 2002, global emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2), the main greenhouse gas, increased 16.4 percent, reports the International Energy Agency. The U.S. increase was 16.7 percent, and most of Europe hasn't done much better.

Here are some IEA estimates of the increases: France, 6.9 percent; Italy, 8.3 percent; Greece, 28.2 percent; Ireland, 40.3 percent; the Netherlands, 13.2 percent; Portugal, 59 percent; Spain, 46.9 percent. It's true that Germany (down 13.3 percent) and Britain (a 5.5 percent decline) have made big reductions. But their cuts had nothing to do with Kyoto. After reunification in 1990, Germany closed many inefficient coal-fired plants in eastern Germany; that was a huge one-time saving. In Britain, the government had earlier decided to shift electric utilities from coal (high CO2 emissions) to plentiful natural gas (lower CO2 emissions).

On their present courses, many European countries will miss their Kyoto targets for 2008-2012. To reduce emissions significantly, Europeans would have to suppress driving and electricity use; that would depress economic growth and fan popular discontent. It won't happen. Political leaders everywhere deplore global warming -- and then do little. Except for Eastern European nations, where dirty factories have been shuttered, few countries have cut emissions. Since 1990 Canada's emissions are up 23.6 percent; Japan's, 18.9 percent.

We are seeing similar exhibitionism in the United States. The U.S. Conference of Mayors recently endorsed Kyoto. California and New Mexico have adopted "targets" for emission cuts, reports the Pew Center on Global Climate Change. All this busywork won't much affect global warming, but who cares? The real purpose is for politicians to brandish their environmental credentials. Even if rich countries actually curbed their emissions, it wouldn't matter much. Poor countries would offset the reductions.

"We expect CO2 emissions growth in China between now and 2030 will equal the growth of the United States, Canada, all of Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and Korea combined," says Fatih Birol, the IEA's chief economist. In India, he says, about 500 million people lack electricity; worldwide, the figure is 1.6 billion. Naturally, poor countries haven't signed Kyoto; they won't sacrifice economic gains -- poverty reduction, bigger middle classes -- to combat global warming. By 2030, the IEA predicts, world energy demand and greenhouse gases will increase by roughly 60 percent; poor countries will account for about two-thirds of the growth. China's coal use is projected almost to double; its vehicle fleet could go from 24 million to 130 million.

Like most forecasts, these won't come true. But unless they're wildly unreliable, they demonstrate that greenhouse emissions will still rise. Facing this prospect, we ought to align rhetoric and reality.

First, we should tackle some energy problems. We need to reduce our use of oil, which increasingly comes from unstable or hostile regions (the Middle East, Russia, Central Asia, Africa). This is mainly a security issue, though it would modestly limit greenhouse gases. What should we do? Even with today's high gasoline prices, we ought to adopt a stiff oil tax and tougher fuel economy standards, both to be introduced gradually. We can shift toward smaller vehicles, with more efficient hybrid engines. Unfortunately, Congress's energy bills lack these measures.

Second, we should acknowledge that global warming is an iffy proposition. Yes, it's happening; but, no, we don't know the consequences -- how much warming will occur, what the effects (good or bad) will be or where. If we can't predict the stock market and next year's weather, why does anyone think we can predict the global climate in 75 years? Global warming is not an automatic doomsday. In some regions, warmer weather may be a boon.

Third, we should recognize that improved technology is the only practical way of curbing greenhouse gases. About 80 percent of CO2 emissions originate outside the transportation sector -- from power generation and from fuels for industrial, commercial and residential use. Any technology solution would probably involve some acceptable form of nuclear power or an economic way of removing CO2 from burned fossil fuels. "Renewable" energy (wind, solar, biomass) won't suffice. Without technology gains, adapting to global warming makes more sense than trying to prevent it. Either way, the Bush administration rightly emphasizes research and development.

What we have now is a respectable charade. Politicians and advocates make speeches, convene conferences and formulate plans. They pose as warriors against global warming. The media participate in the resulting deception by treating their gestures seriously. One danger is that some of these measures will harm the economy without producing significant environmental benefits. Policies motivated by political gain will inflict public pain. Why should anyone applaud?
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

Yeah, more excuses from the myopic right. What does he mean by "adapt"? Does he plan to ignore desertification in the centre of continents, widespread flooding along coastlines, extreme weather causing crop failures, environmental refugees, insurance companies going belly-up from massive payouts, etc?

The fact is that we need to do something about global warming and Kyoto is the best deal we could get and was only ever meant to be a first step. It is not economically sustainable for those who have signed on to excede their targets and the refusal of the US to sign on is quickly becoming a trade issue.

We can meet the targets and we can keep the developing world from following our misguided path of fossil fuel use by providing new technologies.

The alternative is to keep moving the wrong way and choke on our own stupidity.
 

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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It is not economically sustainable for those who have signed on to excede their targets and the refusal of the US to sign on is quickly becoming a trade issue.

True, but only IF, member nations are fined for going over emissions quotas. This hasn't always been the case.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

It will be the case though. They either have to buy credits, which generally involves reducing emissions someplace else anyway, or they have to pay fines.

Either way it isn't economically sustainable. At some point it becomes cheaper to just reduce emissions. There is also the pressure of becoming a technological backwater using old technology when newer, more efficient technology exists.
 

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

Reverend Blair said:
It will be the case though. They either have to buy credits, which generally involves reducing emissions someplace else anyway, or they have to pay fines.

Either way it isn't economically sustainable. At some point it becomes cheaper to just reduce emissions. There is also the pressure of becoming a technological backwater using old technology when newer, more efficient technology exists.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think France, Italy and Greece (to name three) have recently exceeded quotas without penalty. I'm too lazy to check right now, so if you know otherwise, I'll take your word for it.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Your only hope, ladies and gentlemen will be technology.
Not fines. Not regulations that stifle investment with the insane incompetence of bureaucracy to monitor abuse.

Every attempt (note the byzantine EU constitution) to do what you say withers both the economy, incentive and still withers the environment.

Green technology will triumph over any bureacratic solution.

In the meantime, continue your crusade for it is just, but just keep your eyes clear of wishes and see the Law of Unintended Consequences apply and see how there is often a natural clash between individual property rights and the Greater Common Public Good.
 

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocrisy Analyzed ???

jimmoyer said:
Green technology will triumph over any bureacratic solution.

I'm of that opinion too, there is only so much economic sacrefice some nations will be willing to part with once all avenues for reducing emissions have been tried.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

if that was true, Jim, the technology would be in place already. The corporate world has steadfastly refused to be innovative in the areas of the environment, workers rights, human rights, or public safety unless forced to by legislation.
 

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

Reverend Blair said:
if that was true, Jim, the technology would be in place already. The corporate world has steadfastly refused to be innovative in the areas of the environment, workers rights, human rights, or public safety unless forced to by legislation.

Maybe that's where the next economic "boom" is going to be, something developing nations can get in on. Too optimistic?
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocrisy Analyzed ???

jimmoyer said:
Well then, come on Barbie !!!

The heavy hand of central bureaucracy and its natural incompetence and offensive intrusions are ultimately unsatisfying even for liberals, environmentalists.

Let's go party.

You have heard the pharse "money talks, BS walks"? :D
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Maybe that's where the next economic "boom" is going to be, something developing nations can get in on. Too optimistic?

I'm sure it can be done, so I don't think that part is too optimistic. We kind of lack leadership though.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

Said1 said:
Reverend Blair said:
if that was true, Jim, the technology would be in place already. The corporate world has steadfastly refused to be innovative in the areas of the environment, workers rights, human rights, or public safety unless forced to by legislation.

Maybe that's where the next economic "boom" is going to be, something developing nations can get in on. Too optimistic?

No. We need a bit of optimism around here.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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What? What do you mean by this?

I meant just exactly what I said. The corporate world has a terrible record of developing and adopting green technology (look at the bozos in the auto industry for example), have fought every advance in workers rights, have shown no compunction to dealing with human rights, etc. They race to the bottom at every available chance. They do not advance in these areas until they are forced to.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Enforcing heaving fines and penalties might motivate some people into investing in the "green" sector. The potential is there, the money isn't.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

There is no reason for the money not to be there though. We are talking about the people that sold us "orange juice" that had canola oil (made from GM crops) as a relatively major ingredient. If they can do that, surely they can convince people to buy into green technologies.

It is really a lack of will on the part of the corporate world that keeps these things from happening. That lack of will comes from the short-sightedness of quarterly reports and the necessity of earning ever-larger short-term profits. It is an inherent flaw in capitalism.

Our politicians should be counteracting that both through legislation and by raising public awareness of issues, but since they are controlled by corporate interests that never happens.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

Reverend Blair said:
There is no reason for the money not to be there though. We are talking about the people that sold us "orange juice" that had canola oil (made from GM crops) as a relatively major ingredient. If they can do that, surely they can convince people to buy into green technologies.

It is really a lack of will on the part of the corporate world that keeps these things from happening. That lack of will comes from the short-sightedness of quarterly reports and the necessity of earning ever-larger short-term profits. It is an inherent flaw in capitalism.

Our politicians should be counteracting that both through legislation and by raising public awareness of issues, but since they are controlled by corporate interests that never happens.

I know they have the money to invest in R&D, I meant they aren't, to a certain extent, sending a lot of money that way.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

I agree. I just think that's very much a political problem. Corporations won't do anything until they are forced to and, as long as they can still profit from being environmentally unfriendly, they won't change.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Kyoto Treaty Hypocris

Reverend Blair said:
I agree. I just think that's very much a political problem. Corporations won't do anything until they are forced to and, as long as they can still profit from being environmentally unfriendly, they won't change.

But of course, money talks!