Hopelessly Enslaved by Democracy

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
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Why is it, we seem to think we have somehow unlocked the mysteries of the universe by finding the ultimate cure for all things which we choose to call "democracy"? Is it not obvious we apparently feel it is justified to label everything else as "evil" thus, forcing our own beliefs and "freedom" upon the rest of the world?

Let me say something to my fellow Canadians: Democracy is not freedom and freedom is not democracy.

One can argue that democracy creates what he perceives to be "freedom", but that would simply be a perception created by propaganda crafted so perfectly to create the ultimate system of control over power. The definition of freedom is "The condition of being free of restraints" Since one could argue that laws against murder and such things can be considered restraints, then a realistic approach to an ideal nation of freedom would be "The condition of all people being free of, and being bound by, exactly the same restraints"

How are we free, when those born into wealthy families, are also born into a different set of restraints? ... How are we free when knowledge, something that is a god given right to all Human beings to obtain, is more easily obtained by certain social classes then others? A poor person, which is an average person when one considers the exponentially increasing gap between classes, will often find himself unable to pursue the quest for knowledge he desires. He may consider a loan to help him get past the barrier of increasing University admission costs. A huge and possibly not worthwhile burden, just to obtain the knowledge that should be free to all. Thus, in a time where capitalism has created a situation where decent paying jobs are not easy to obtain, this individual may decide it is a wise decision to avoid a post-secondary education and earn his living as a simple laborer. This man may have had the potential to do something truly great, and may have done so had he been born into a different family, yet he is forced into a blindfold and handed the leftovers from his Emperor's dog's dish. A rich man's son will grow up to find it easy to afford the financial aspect of university, and he will also have many connections in high places simply handed to him. "To be at once exceedingly wealthy and good is impossible" (Plato, 428-347 BC).

The bottom line is, many people simply cannot afford an education. How are we truly free when our potential for knowledge is greatly limited by the size of our parent's wallets? How are we free when at birth one Canadian is obvious to have more potential for opportunity than another? Even without the United State's capitalistic strangle hold on the world, it would be impossible to maintain a "social democracy". The wealthy in any sort of democracy will always find a way back to complete power, as gradual as it may be, while perfecting the means by which they manipulate the masses into obedience.

Statistics show, there are enough extremely wealthy people in this country, that if they each donated what to them would seem like pocket change, every Canadian could have a their entire University educations paid for. University, the highest level of education, should, and must, be completely free of cost. Why should one have to pay for what thousands of years of his ancestors discovered? Why should one have to pay for what may help him contribute to society, or improve society in a manner of great significance otherwise impossible? I believe that knowledge is so undeniably important for all citizens and all people of this planet to pursue to the highest of levels, that one should be forced to pay if they choose NOT to acquire this knowledge, not the other way around.

Karl Marx had some great ideas about how to achieve true freedom, yet they have never been implemended as intended. He believed in the idea of a self governing nation created after a "transition phase", during which a party is given complete power in order to maintain stability. This "transition phase" later proved, not only a potential problem, but also an opportunity to exploit a common social philosophy in order to achieve power. Stalin, for example, completely destroyed the beliefs of Marx, but used the social following he created to achieve power.

The following is a quote from philosopher and scientist Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe (1749-1832)

"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free"

I do not yet know of a complete solution, but I do know, democracy is not it!

Which brings me to the United Sates, the Malevolent Excellency of unsurpassed Destructive Subjugating Impiousness, or in other words, "leader of the democratic world". A nation seemingly invincible, especially in the mind of the average American, however it's power is nothing but transient and it's demise inevitable. If it is accurate to assume the fall of ancient Rome was ultimately a result of the choices and circumstances created by ancient Roman politicians, then with current conditions considered, it would also be accurate to predict the fall of the United States within the current century. The U.S.A. was originally founded on ideas based on ancient Roman politics, hence it is no coincidence that the USA has reached a similar level of world power by comparison, in addition to making many ofl the same mistakes that lead to Rome's defeat. History seems to indicate, human's are cursed to perpetual reciprocation.

For us there are only two possiblities: either we remain Canadian, or we lose all our sovereignty as we are slowly consumed by the United States. This latter must not occur, even if we are small, we are a force. A well-organized group can conquer a strong enemy. If we stick close together and keep educating our people. We will grow in size however slowly, and we will be victorious over the Americans.

We, as Canadians, need to resist the manipulative subjugation the Unites States is attemping. Hence, a wise man once said:

"Just as a tree without roots is dead, a people without history or culture also becomes a dead people"

That man was "Malcom X" and his point applies to all walks of life. If we allow our culture and history to be gradually Americanized, we at once should begin calling ourselves American.


In retrospect, I have great love for my country and take enormous pride in calling myself Canadian. I admire how we gradually evolved from Britain rather than forcefully exploded out of her. My main concern is if we will continue to evolve, or simply become completely manipulated and forced into the die hard and malevolent "Democracy or DIE" belief system that seems to be dominating the implacable United States. A belief system that exists to excel her malevolent excellency into complete global domination, hence, complete control of power and influence within herself.


Gordon J.
 

Andygal

Electoral Member
May 13, 2005
518
0
16
BC
RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst system ever invented, except for all the others".

It may not be "the" answer, but it's the best one we've found.

This latter must not occur,

No arguements with you there.

I admire how we gradually evolved from Britain rather than forcefully exploded out of her.

No arguements with you there either.

I just don't agree with how you seem to be saying that we should build up a miltary force and then conquer the US, isn't that the same kinds of things you are slamming the US for doing?
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
An educated people, wise to their own culture and heritage, as well as wise to the rest of the world, can be a more powerful force than any amount of weapons and armor could ever create.

The main philosophy behind the writings of the great military strategist Sun Tzu is "to win without fighting". I believe, we as Canadians can be lead to victory by creating the availability of free high level education to all canadian citizens, by gradually ridding ourselves of the gaps between social classes, and by evolving into a completely "social" nation similar to the ideas of Karl Marx. Unlike Marx, I believe this can be done peacefully if we follow the same strategy we ever so gradually and peacefully used to evolve from Britain. Education, Canadian culture, heritage, and virtue must become the basis by which Canadian's live.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

I dunno Gordon...Karl Marx basically said that real change would happen when the capitalists gained too much power and started forming monopolies. Since the corporate monkeys seem determined to make Marx's prediction come true and are working towards that at an ever faster rate, do you think we have time for a slow evolution?
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
do you think we have time for a slow evolution?


The first steps must be taken in the near feature, however the only way at this point in history to achieve successful and permanent transition into true freedom, would be to follow the path of patience and wisdom. Paranoid, impetuous maneuvers will inevitably lead to a drastically unpredictable society with repugnant long term consequences. We must use the inevitable paranoia of American rulers to our long term advantage, and not let it defeat or influence us. The availability of free high level education to all Canadian citizens would not so slowly change the balance of nontransparent power in Canada. Considering that under our current capitalist influence, the wealthy "ruling class" are not only superior financially, but intellectually as well, free university will begin to disrupt the balance of power from within democracy itself, thus, a progressive percentage increase of American's, partially due to at the time state of affairs, would potentially find it appealing to immigrate to Canada. Consequently, without drawing excessive attention or directly revealing potential intentions from which a successful rigorous counter-plan or propaganda campaign could be developed by our implacable neighbors. Education for all citizens is the key to get things started, and peaceful, gradual evolution is the key for any potential movement to be successfully permanent, regardless of what may seem initially as detrimental elements resulting in potential or actual significant change.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

We, as a species, are given to paranoid and impetuous maneuvers though, Gordon. We are not given to education though, not even learning from our own mistakes.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Gordon J Torture said:
How are we free, when those born into wealthy families, are also born into a different set of restraints? ...
Interesting how all your views are based on “economic” restraints. The issue here is how one defines his/her freedom. I know people who are perfectly happy backpacking almost full time. They have no demands on their time, they can buy whatever they want (because what they want is very little) and their only significant worry seems to be the weather. They make almost no money, but I'd call them rich and free. At the same time I know people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year but who are so materialistic and so burdened by debt and preoccupied on making more money that I'd have to consider them poor and restrained.
Gordon J Torture said:
How are we free when knowledge, something that is a god given right to all Human beings to obtain, is more easily obtained by certain social classes then others?

This may be a reality in Canada, but certainly not the case a little south of you, whereas perhaps the rich are able to attend an ivy-league school, all poor, in economic terms, have access to post secondary institutions paid for by a $120 Billion financial aid package annually by the federal government, I know, I studied for free. And I assume taxation is not a form of payment? What is your answer to this other than the anachronistic philosophies of Marx and Engels?

Gordon J Torture said:
Statistics show, there are enough extremely wealthy people in this country, that if they each donated what to them would seem like pocket change, every Canadian could have a their entire University educations paid for.

Interesting statistic, there is a real need in funding for post-secondary education, I know, the organization I work with provides scholarships based on need and merit. Here’s another interesting statistic for you, 67% of North American students are forced into post-secondary institutions by their parents and most of them never graduate. How about the Canadian government upgrading their student financial aid for those who cannot afford it (not loans) for the students?

Gordon J Torture said:
For us there are only two possiblities: either we remain Canadian, or we lose all our sovereignty as we are slowly consumed by the United States. This latter must not occur, even if we are small, we are a force. A well-organized group can conquer a strong enemy. If we stick close together and keep educating our people. We will grow in size however slowly, and we will be victorious over the Americans.

Indeed you should. But before you do that, you should perhaps focus on sticking together as a country, which lately appears to be teetering on the brink of disunion. This is where the problem lies, you’re still scrambling how else to define a Canadian other than by negation.

Gordon J Torture said:
Karl Marx had some great ideas about how to achieve true freedom, yet they have never been implemended as intended.

Indeed, it is not only greed from the wealthy that has the ability to control the masses, but also human lust for power and authority. Stalin wasn’t about money, the eastern European countries weren’t about money. China wasn’t about money, North Korea? What makes you think if it hasn’t been implemented as intended it will be now or in the future? Perhaps the very distant future, when human beings look upon each other as equals. Not today, not tomorrow. The human evolution of perception that all mankind is equal comes first, not last and certainly not forced upon.

Gordon J Torture said:
A nation seemingly invincible, especially in the mind of the average American, however it's power is nothing but transient and it's demise inevitable

Yes, many before you made the same statement ''The 19th century was the century of the United States,'' Prime Minister Wilfrid Laurier declared in 1896. ''The 20th century will be the century of Canada.'' We all know how that turned out, don’t we?
Here’s one thing you seem to miss, the US will not be demised, it will evolve. You see Gordon, when blinded by hypocritical self serving morality, you seem to miss the big picture. The US is an experiment, it has flaws and strengths, mistakes have been made, some intended and some not. Democracy is a journey, not a destination. The only foreseeable transition or “demise” as you so call it, is the collapse of multinational corporations infringing upon human beings rights. You can have equality to certain fundamental principles, like education, food etc…if the governments did their jobs, namely, being there for the people instead of themselves, and no system will ever accomplish this until humanity changes its perceptions.
Gordon J Torture said:
In retrospect, I have great love for my country and take enormous pride in calling myself Canadian. I admire how we gradually evolved from Britain rather than forcefully exploded out of her.
That’s an interesting statement for someone calling upon Karl Marx’s revolutionary philosophies.
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
We, as a species, are given to paranoid and impetuous maneuvers

How disgusting it is, to witness a fellow Canadian friend stereotype an entire intelligent species!

In reality, history has proven us to be paranoid, yet logical, impetuous, yet cautious, and unpredictable to such a degree, a stereotype of our entire species is absolutely ridiculous!


We are not given to education though, not even learning from our own mistakes.


Those sound like the words of a man who has a close connection to wealth. I have made "mistakes" that had a detrimental effect on my very chance at survival. To say not only that I did not learn from them, but that I am not capable of learning from them, is insulting all of humanity.

It is true that the same mistakes seem to be made again and again more often than not, but we still hold the key to our own future. Just as a pianist makes mistakes every time he plays a song at first, he eventually learns from those mistakes and masters the song and eventually the art. Do not be discouraged by repetitive instances you choose to perceive as disappointing.
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
That’s an interesting statement for someone calling upon Karl Marx’s revolutionary philosophies

I was going to respond to more of your points, many of which were based heavily on subjective perceptions phrased as absolute facts, however, I noticed the pure desperation to prove a point demonstrated in the above comment.

Please allow me to explain before, you really lose control of your temper. I pointed out more than once, that I believe in only some of Marx's philosophies and that my ideas of how to attain the same results differ. With that said, your comment was simply a desperate act of credibility bashing. Shame on you!

With that said, your true intentions and desperation for alpha male style supremacy have been revealed. You have been defeated.

I anticipate that next you will resort to correcting grammatical errors and typos in yet another attempt to lessen my credibility. So be it, freedom is what makes this country great!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
How disgusting it is, to witness a fellow Canadian friend stereotype an entire intelligent species!

In reality, history has proven us to be paranoid, yet logical, impetuous, yet cautious, and unpredictable to such a degree, a stereotype of our entire species is absolutely ridiculous!

History has shown that if w can find a way to screw things up, we will.

Those sound like the words of a man who has a close connection to wealth.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Usually I get accused of being a communist on welfare.

I have made "mistakes" that had a detrimental effect on my very chance at survival. To say not only that I did not learn from them, but that I am not capable of learning from them, is insulting all of humanity.

You are not the species though. No individual is. We do okay by ourselves. We even do okay in small groups. When we all get together we have the collective good sense of a pack of jabbering, rabid baboons.

I don't disagree with your idea, Gordon. If you check my posts, you'll find that you and I agree more often than we disagree. I just don't think it's workable, is all. We have, right now, all of the bread and circuses necessary to keep us fat and docile. Until somebody takes that away, you won't see significant change.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Gordon J Torture said:
That’s an interesting statement for someone calling upon Karl Marx’s revolutionary philosophies

I was going to respond to more of your points, many of which were based heavily on subjective perceptions phrased as absolute facts, however, I noticed the pure desperation to prove a point demonstrated in the above comment.

I offered my opinions before that statement and since you never made it clear which philosophies you do not agree with, Iwould have to assume (perhaps wrongfully) that you agreed with the "essence" of his writings.

Please allow me to explain before, you really lose control of your temper.

Actually, your responses to Rev's posts indicates that you are more than likely throwing a tantrum and I hardly ever agree with the man, but I certainly agree with him there

I pointed out more than once, that I believe in only some of Marx's philosophies and that my ideas of how to attain the same results differ. With that said, your comment was simply a desperate act of credibility bashing. Shame on you!

No Sir, shame on you for interpreting my responses as credibility bashing since you chose not to respond

With that said, your true intentions and desperation for alpha male style supremecy have been revealed. You have been defeated.

:sleepy2:

I anticipate that next you will resort to correcting grammatical errors and typos in yet another attempt to lessen my credibility. So be it, freedom is what makes this country great!

That's correct Gordon, freedom is one of the reasons that makes Canada great. But when you empower government to mold the culture more to your liking, you must prepare yourself for the day when you are in the minority and a culture you abhor is officially sanctioned and forced upon you.
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
History has shown that if w can find a way to screw things up, we will.

The glass is half empty or the glass is half full! ;)




We have, right now, all of the bread and circuses necessary to keep us fat and docile

Perhaps you need to leave sububeria because, in the real world, there are many people in this country working a total of 16 hours a day at two different labor jobs, only to look forward to a one hour bus ride home, neccessary because of the increasing costs of rent, electricity, and just about everything else. Can you guess what didn't go up? The working man's pay! I have in the past, been working full time, owned no car, had the cheapest in rent place I could find, yet still had to use food banks literally just to SURVIVE at one point. I have had my electricity and thus, HEAT, cut off in my home in which there are children, in the middle of an Alberta winter while it was -40 Degrees C! That was because of $40.00 outstanding which caused the apparent need for a $300 security deposit to reactivate it.

Please friend, please do not try and tell me of things you have not had to endure.
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
Don't make assumptions about me, Gordon

One who has endured anything similar would not have said what you did, unless he was simply lying. Hence, my comment was more than justified, but feel free to change the subject and exploit whatever you can find to take the heat off. ;)
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

I didn't change the subject. You made an assumption that was wrong and I corrected you. Now I'm correcting you again.
 

Gordon J Torture

Electoral Member
May 17, 2005
330
0
16
If my assumption was indeed wrong, than it proves you a blatant liar. Either way, Apples and Oranges.

:)


You guys are hilarious! Especially my friend with the apparent fetish. What is it called again? ... "The pretending Gordon J never said near the beginning this very thread, that unlike Marx, he would would like everything to be done peacefully fetish"?

Yeah, that is it!

I made it clear, long before the Fetish man even joined this thread, that it is only certain philosophies of Marx I agree with.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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38
Irregardless of all that, we aren’t sending you to university for free.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Gordon J Torture said:
If my assumption was indeed wrong, than it proves you a blatant liar. Either way, Apples and Oranges.

:)


You guys are hilarious! Especially my friend with the apparent fetish. What is it called again? ... "The pretending Gordon J never said near the beginning this very thread, that unlike Marx, he would would like everything to be done peacefully fetish"?

Yeah, that is it!

I made it clear, long before the Fetish man even joined this thread, that it is only certain philosophies of Marx I agree with.

We're still waiting to hear which philosophies you don't and do agree with so we can have a discussion, or are you just going to sit behind your monitor being mad at the world.