How interesting.... NORAAD

Ten Packs

Council Member
Nov 21, 2004
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Not a surprise, but interesting to know the story.
pricks......

Hoover-Era American Plan For War Against Britain and Canada Uncovered

American military officials drew up a secret plan in 1930 for war against Britain in which Canada would be the main battleground. "Joint Plan Red," as it was known, envisaged the elimination of Britain as a trading rival.
Professor Floyd Rudmin of Queens University in Ontario, Canada, charges that the plan was a blueprint for an American invasion of Canada. According to the plan, the United States was prepared to invade Canada if political unrest brought on by Quebec's secession threatened American access to Canada's fresh water and cheap hydroelectric power.
The war plan document was drawn up by the Joint Board of the Army and Navy in May 1930, when Herbert Hoover was President. It identified Britain as Red, Canada as Crimson, Australia and New Zealand as Scarlet, and the U.S. as Blue. Its aim was to dismember the British empire on the grounds of "competition and interference with American foreign trade."
Describing the objectives of a possible war, the document stated:
It is believed that Blue's war aims in case of war with Red [Britain] should be the expulsion of Red from North and South America and the definite elimination of Red as a strong competitor in foreign trade.
Plan Red called for a series of coordinatedmilitary attacks against Canada to deny Britain land and naval bases. A naval force from Boston would seize Halifax (Nova Scotia), cutting off Canada from the Atlantic Ocean. Other U.S. forces would occupy the gulf of St. Lawrence, isolating Quebec City and Montreal.
American land forces would move from New York, Vermont and New Hampshire to take Montreal and Quebec City, much as American forces did during the Revolutionary war for independence during the 1770s. Other U.S. forces would cross into Canada at Detroit and head for Ottawa, Canada's capital. American troops would also take the Welland Canal, paralyzing shipping on the Great Lakes, and would seize the power stations at the Niagara falls. Naval forces would blockade the Pacific at Victoria and Vancouver.
It was envisaged that British, Australian, New Zealand and Indian forces would quickly overwhelm American bases in the Philippines and Guam. Out of concern that British forces might take the American-run Panama Canal, Plan Red called for a U.S. naval and air assault against British possessions in the Caribbean, including the seizure of Jamaica, the Bahamas and Bermuda.
Christopher Cushing of the Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies in Toronto recently commented:
The Americans would be threatened by economic and political instability. They would be especially worried about access to Canadian fresh water and hydroelectric power. It is the same motivation which sent them to the Gulf.
For many years now, Quebec has been a major supplier of cheap hydroelectric power from dams on northern rivers to New York state and New England.
The 94-page Joint Plan Red document is now in the National Archives in Washington, DC. Edward Reese, a military archivist there, noted that "there were [official American] color plans for all parts of the world." Indeed, all major military powers have similar contingency plans for military operations in different countries. Plan Red remained an active US military strategy until 1939, when it was superceded by Joint Plan Orange, which was directed against Japan.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p121_HNAC.html
 
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snoproblem

Nominee Member
Mar 18, 2005
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Re: How interesting....

I guess they didn't learn a damn thing from the war of 1812! That's also no big surprise.
 

ElPolaco

Electoral Member
Nov 5, 2004
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RE: How interesting....

"Operation Canadian Freedom". The US military supported by pro-US guerillas (mainly from Alberta)force out the tyranical socialist regime and install a "free" regime and hands out no bid contract to US companies to rebuild Canadian cities destroyed by the US military...FOX headlines read: "Millions of Canadians freed from the oppressions of universal health care". It's funny, but I actually know people who think like that.
 

Just the Facts

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Oct 15, 2004
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Re: How interesting....

Indeed, all major military powers have similar contingency plans for military operations in different countries. Plan Red remained an active US military strategy until 1939, when it was superceded by Joint Plan Orange, which was directed against Japan.

So what part of "there were [official American] color plans for all parts of the world." is the author having trouble grasping? Just goes to show how reality and truth can be such translucent factors for some people.

That's what military's do - they draw up scenarios and plan contingencies. If there was no Plan Red, the indy media would be screaming and shouting about how unprepared the military is.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: How interesting....

Does the Canadian military have a contingency plan for invading the US if they decide to cancel elections? I doubt it. If we did though, and the plan became public, you can bet there would be a far bigger outcry from the US than you are hearing from Canada.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Re: How interesting....

Interesting how Canada is Crimson and the plan calls for attacking Red (Britain).

Now I wonder, why is that ? :?
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Re: RE: How interesting....

Reverend Blair said:
Does the Canadian military have a contingency plan for invading the US if they decide to cancel elections? I doubt it.

I don't know if the cancelling of elections factors into it, but if they don't have a plan, they certainly should. It's just basic military training to plan and execute attacks like that. I wouldn't be surprised if plans to invade the U.S. have been executed by joint forces. :wink:

Of course, it may not actually be labelled "Canadian Invasion of the United States", rather "Crimson invasion of Blue".

It's really no big deal, these kinds of exercises go on all over the world all the time. Australia gets attacked I think annually by U.S. Canadain and Australian forces.


If we did though, and the plan became public, you can bet there would be a far bigger outcry from the US than you are hearing from Canada.

Maybe. Maybe not. Don't know. Don't care. Don't define myself by what others may or may not do.
 

no1important

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Jan 9, 2003
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Re: RE: How interesting....

Reverend Blair said:
I wonder what their present plan is? They are far more dependent on us for energy now than they were in 1939.

Does the Canadian military have a contingency plan for invading the US if they decide to cancel elections? I doubt it. If we did though, and the plan became public, you can bet there would be a far bigger outcry from the US than you are hearing from Canada.

I wonder too and thats the scarey thing, especially with that lunatic running the show down there. Thats why we have to start being better friends to China, India and the likes and not just for trade.

If the tables were turned the Americans would be crying bloody murder. Thats the way they are and will always be be.

I can picture O'reilly from fox and that goof ball with bow tie from cnn, just whining and calling for "W" to invade us, not to mention lots more of their bad mouthing Canada etc.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Re: RE: How interesting....

no1important said:
Reverend Blair said:
I wonder what their present plan is? They are far more dependent on us for energy now than they were in 1939.

Does the Canadian military have a contingency plan for invading the US if they decide to cancel elections? I doubt it. If we did though, and the plan became public, you can bet there would be a far bigger outcry from the US than you are hearing from Canada.

I wonder too and thats the scarey thing, especially with that lunatic running the show down there. Thats why we have to start being better friends to China, India and the likes and not just for trade.

If the tables were turned the Americans would be crying bloody murder. Thats the way they are and will always be be.

I can picture O'reilly from fox and that goof ball with bow tie from cnn, just whining and calling for "W" to invade us, not to mention lots more of their bad mouthing Canada etc.

So I'm still wondering. Would that be Crimson attacking Blue? Or Red attacking Blue? I'm still confused over this. Why does the plan differentiate between Crimson (Canada) and Red (Britain)? Any Ideas?
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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RE: How interesting....

British is generally described as red. Canada being owned by Briton is red, but with a variation of the colour...maybe?
 

LockJaw

New Member
May 13, 2005
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Re: How interesting....

I guess they didn't learn a damn thing from the war of 1812!
Yeah we did, we learned that as a bunch of pimpsqueek rebel colonists we could take on a European superpower and fight them to a draw. Imagine what we could do more than a hundred years later :twisted:

But seriously though, I wouldn't take it personally. The pentagon probably has plans to invade every single country in the world.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
RE: How interesting....

War Plan Red was never intended to be put into action except in the event of a war with the United Kingdom, an eventuality that everyone would agree was highly unlikely after about 1900.

In the color codes used at that time, "Red" referred not to Canada (that was "Crimson"), but to the United Kingdom. The proposed invasion of Canada wasn't an end in itself; it was just the easiest way to hurt the U.K.

And to answer a few questions that some have. In 1921 Canada's Director of Military Operations and Intelligence, Col. J. Sutherland-Brown, produced a remarkable document called "Defence Scheme Number 1" to deal with possible war with the U.S. As in the U.S., isolationism ran high in Canada and it was politically difficult to plan for war in Europe.

no1important said:
If the tables were turned the Americans would be crying bloody murder. Thats the way they are and will always be be.

So much for that theory eh?
 

SilentSwirl

Nominee Member
Mar 13, 2005
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Re: How interesting....

Just the Facts said:
Of course, it may not actually be labelled "Canadian Invasion of the United States", rather "Crimson invasion of Blue".
To be strictly correct and using more current military parlance JtF, it would more likely be "Blue invasion of Orange", during the planning phase, because blue would no longer be Blue, they would be Orange. Orange's principal interest would be Purple during this scenario. 8)
Just the Facts said:
It's really no big deal, these kinds of exercises go on all over the world all the time. Australia gets attacked I think annually by U.S. Canadain (sic) and Australian forces.
It's learning "cooperation and constant vigilance" and how we know of our weaknesses. I too expect that DND have such a plan and have shared it with the US; I hope so.
Just the Facts said:
Maybe. Maybe not. Don't know. Don't care. Don't define myself by what others may or may not do.
Nicely said JtF - IMHO far too many Canadians (outside of Quebec) appear to define themselves principally by protesting the fact they are not Americans.
 

Cathou

Electoral Member
Apr 24, 2005
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Re: How interesting....

that article have something that dont work in it. it's said :

American military officials drew up a secret plan in 1930 for war against Britain in which Canada would be the main battleground. "Joint Plan Red," as it was known, envisaged the elimination of Britain as a trading rival.

Professor Floyd Rudmin of Queens University in Ontario, Canada, charges that the plan was a blueprint for an American invasion of Canada. According to the plan, the United States was prepared to invade Canada if political unrest brought on by Quebec's secession threatened American access to Canada's fresh water and cheap hydroelectric power.

in 1930 we didnt have hydroelectric power to sell, in 1930 quebec wasnt on the edge or even thinking of secession...
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
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Re: How interesting....

Just the facts wrote
[/quote]That's what military's do - they draw up scenarios and plan contingencies. If there was no Plan Red, the indy media would be screaming and shouting about how unprepared the military is.
Thats right JTF just like Operation Northwoods 8O US military needed a plan to fly commercial airliners into buildings you have to be prepared you know :p
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Re: RE: How interesting....

no1important said:
no1important said:
If the tables were turned the Americans would be crying bloody murder. Thats the way they are and will always be be.

So much for that theory eh?

Well I don not see any Canadian tv making a stink out of this like they would in America.

Assumptions. I sincerely doubt anybody would react from plans drawn up 60 to 80 years ago. "Joint Plan Red" was declassified in 1974 and I doubt the averaga person in Canada has ever heard of "Defence Scheme Number 1", 2 or 3 for that matter.

This is what the military does across the world, come up with scenarios.