Iran nuclear talks near collapse, UK warns

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
UKUSreal: "You must agree to stop production of nuclear weapons."
IRAN: "We aren't making any nuclear weapons."
UKUSreal: "WE are serious. You MUST suspend your nuclear weapons program."
IRAN: "We don't HAVE a nuclear weapons program. We're building a power station. Your inspectors have already looked at it; it's a power station. See this lamp? You plug it into the wall, turn a switch, and it lights up. We're building the part that goes on the other end of that extension cord, okay? Electricity. Electricity for homes, stores, factories. The oil isn't going to last forever, the way those tanks of yours burn it up."
UKUSreal: "WE reiterate, Iran MUST suspend its nuclear weapons program."
IRAN: "Dear God, why don't they hear me. I know I am speaking; I recognize my voice. READ MY LIPS. WE DON'T HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM. WE DON'T HAVE A 'NOOUKLAR' WEAPONS PROGRAM. You want 110 volt AC, we got that. You want bombs, go to Israel; they got plenty!"
UKUSreal: "WE reiterate, Iran MUST suspend its nuclear weapons program."
IRAN: "Do you guys dry your hair in the microwave oven?"
UKUSreal: "These talks are over. It should be obvious that Iran is not serious about ending its nuclear weapons program. Launch the attack."
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Iran nuclear talks ne

That was really good, Mogh. I'm not convinced that Iran isn't making nukes, but it doesn't matter if they are or not because nobody will listen to them.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
Ask yourselves this question about Iran.What the f..k does a country with the oil reserves they have need a nuclear power plant for?Theres only one thing its for people and it's not electricity :wink:
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Iran nuclear talks ne

There are a few advantages actually. There is a certain international status to having nuclear power, they can export more energy, they don't have as much pollution, etc.

That doesn't mean that I believe them, but Israel has nukes and is hostile towards them. The US has nukes and is hostile towards them. It has also illegally invaded and occupied their neighbour. Pakistan and India have nukes and are allied with the US. When I look at a map of the area, I can understand why Iran might feel they need a few nukes. The concept of MAD still applies and they are in the midst of a local arms race.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
What the Rev said is true. They maybe building a small supplies of arms to be even with Israel. But As for a country with Oil reserves, these reserves will eventually run out. Iran is doing two things. Putting the middle finger in the face of the US and telling them if you want us to disarm, start with your little baby (Israel). The second is to have this kind of advantage and status of being a nuclear power.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
I know what their doing. The fact remains you guys think the world will be a better and safer place with Iran having nuclear weapons 8O Give me a break if thats the case we better get the Candu's going and get the engineers a building cause were all infidels you know :roll:
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Iran nuclear talks ne

I don't think it will be better and safer, but they do have a position that is understandable. Besides, I don't see anybody trying to disarm Pakistan or India. Everybody knows that Israel has nukes, but they won't admit it so it's somehow okay. The US has been developing all kinds of new things that go boom.

It's kind of hard to make an argument that Iran shouldn't have nukes at that point.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
Iran with nukes and Isreal Hmmmm lets see Iran's stated goal the destruction of the state of Isreal .I don't think anybody in Isreal has stated they want total destruction of Iran.They have every right to defend themselves from the religious zealots running Iran
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
I will give you a real insight on what Israel wants to do:

------------------------------------------------

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories." Benjamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, tells students at Bar Ilan University, From the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

David Ben-Gurion, one of the father founders of Israel, described Zionist aims in 1948 thus: "A Christian state should be established [in Lebanon], with its southern border on the Litani river. We will make an alliance with it. When we smash the Arab Legion's strength and bomb Amman, we will eliminate Transjordan too, and then Syria will fall. If Egypt still dares to fight on, we shall bomb Port Said, Alexandria and Cairo... And in this fashion, we will end the war and settle our forefathers' account with Egypt, Assyria, and Aram"

"Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs..." Vladimir Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923.

"[The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, 'Begin and the "Beasts"', New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."Golda Maeir, March 8, 1969.

"We must expel Arabs and take their places." David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!... Zionism is a colonization adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important... to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot - or else I am through with playing at colonizing." Vladimir Jabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud), The Iron Wall, 1923.

"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left." Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department in 1940. From "A Solution to the Refugee Problem" Joseph Weitz, Davar, September 29, 1967, cited in Uri Davis and Norton Mevinsky, eds., Documents from Israel, 1967-1973, p.21.

"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.

"We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas.

"...if people become accustomed to the large figure and we are actually obliged to accept the return of the refugees, we may find it difficult, when faced with hordes of claimants, to convince the world that not all of these formerly lived in Israeli territory. It would, in any event, seem desirable to minimize the numbers...than otherwise." Israeli official Arthur Lourie in a letter to Walter Eytan, director general of the Israeli Foreign Ministry (ISA FM 2564/22). From Benny Morris, "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem 1947-49", p. 297.

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

One of the most enduring and deceptive slogans of Zionism was coined by Israel Zangwill almost 100 years ago: Palestine was a "land without people for a people without land."

After paying a visit to Palestine in 1891, the Hebrew essayist Achad Ha-Am commented:" Abroad we are accustomed to believe that Israel is almost empty; nothing isgrown here and that whoever wishes to buy land could come here and buy what his heart desires. In reality, the situation is not like this. Throughout the country it is difficult to find cultivable land which is not already cultivated."

The removal of Arabs bodily from Palestine is part of the Zionist plan to "spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment...Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried away discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.

In 1899, Davis Triestsch wrote to Herzl: " I would suggest to you to come round in time to the "Greater Palestine" program before it is too late... the Basle program must contain the words "Great Palestine" or "Palestine and its neighbouring lands" otherwise it's nonsense. You do not get ten million Jews into a land of 25,000 Km2".

Vladimir Jabotinsky (the founder and advocate of the Zionist terrorist organizations): "Has any People ever been seen to give up their territory of their own free will? In the same way, the Arabs of Palestine will not renounce their sovereignty without violence." Quoted by Maxime Rodinson in Peuple Juif ou Problem Juif. (Jewish People or Jewish Problem).

David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): " If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 "We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes, "The old will die and the young will forget."

Also Ben Gurion stated " The present map of Palestine was drawn by the British mandate. The Jewish people have another map which our youth and adults should strive to fulfill -- From the Nile to the Euphrates."

"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our time is the emergence in the newly created State of Israel of the Freedom Party (Herut), a political party closely akin in its organization, method, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties." [Begin, and Yitzhak Shamir who were members of the party became Prime Ministers.] Albert Einstein, Hanna Arendt and other prominent Jewish Americans, writing in The New York Times, protest the visit to America of Menachem Begin, December 1948.

Martin Buber, Jewish Philosopher, addressed Prime Minister Ben Gurion on the moral character of the state of Israel with reference to the Arab refugees in March 1949: "We will have to face the reality that Israel is neither innocent, nor redemptive. And that in its creation, and expansion; we as Jews, have caused what we historically have suffered; a refugee population in Diaspora."

" It lies upon the people's shoulders to prepare for the war, but it lies upon the Israeli army to carry out the fight with the ultimate object of erecting the Israeli Empire." Moshe Dayan (Israel Defense and Foreign Minister), on February 12 1952. Radio "Israel."

Aba Eban (the Israeli Foreign Minister) stated arrogantly: " If the General Assembly were to vote by 121 votes to 1 in favor of "Israel" returning to the armistice lines-- (pre June 1967 borders) "Israel" would refuse to comply with the decision." New York Times June 19, 1967.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I don't blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, .The Arab villages are not there either. Nahal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibat; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kfar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al Shuman. There is not one single place that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan's address to the Technion, Haifa (as Quoted in Ha'aretz, April 4, 1969).

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969.

"The only solution is Eretz Israel [Greater Israel], or at least Western Eretz Israel [all the land west of Jordan River], without Arabs. There is no room compromise on this point ... We must not leave a single village, not a single tribe." Joseph Weitz, Director of the Jewish National Fund, the Zionist agency charged with acquiring Palestinian land, Circa 194. Machover Israca, January5, 1973 p.2.

"Hitler's legal power was based upon the 'Enabling Act', which was passed quite legally by the Reichstag and which allowed the Fuehrer and his representatives, in plain language, to be what they wanted, or in legal language, to issue regulations having the force of law. Exactly the same type of act was passed by the Knesset [Israeli's Parliament] immediately after the 1067 conquest granting the Israeli governor and his representatives the power of Hitler, which they use in Hitlerian manner." Dr. Israel Shahak, Chairperson of the Israeli League for Human and Civil Rights, and a survivor of the Bergen Belsen concentration camp, Commenting on the Israeli military's Emergency Regulations following the 1967 War. Palestine, vol. 12, December 1983.

I see "many similarities in the oppression of Blacks in South Africa and of Palestinians." Dennis Goldberg, a Jewish South African sentenced to life imprisonment for "conspiring to overthrow the apartheid regime," is released through the intercession of Israeli officials, states on arrival in Israel, March 1985. He called for a total economic boycott of South Africa, singling out Israelas a major ally of the apartheid regime. Pledging never to stay in Israel, Goldberg moves to London.

"It is forbidden to sell apartments in the Land of Israel to Gentiles." Mordecai Eliayaho, the Israeli Chief Rabbi commenting on an attempt by a Palestinian to buy an apartment owned by the Jewish National Fund in East Jerusalem. Ha'aretz January 17, 1986. The same situation was repeated many times, and that decision is legalized now by the Israeli Supreme Court.

"Jewish blood and a goy's [gentile's] blood are not the same." Israeli Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, Inferring that killing isn't murder if the victim is Gentile. Jerusalem Post, June 19,1989.

"I am a black South African, and if I were to change the names, a description of what is happening in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank could describe events in South Africa." Archbishop Desmond Tuto, observes during Christmas visit to Jerusalem, December 25, 1989. From Israeli daily Ha'aretz, cited in Palestine Perspectives, January/February 1990.

"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya [immigration], and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country." Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Avivmemorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

The Balfour Declaration to Baron Rothchild, on the 2nd of November, 1917: "His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyedby Jews in any other country."

"In Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country" Lord Balfour in private memorandum to Lord Curzon, 11 August 1919.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, 'What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979; Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet.

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

"There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here [Palestine] to the neighboring countries, to transfer all of them; not one village, not one tribe should be left." Jospeh Weitz, Davar, 29 September 1967 from "My Diary and Letters to the Children", Massada, 1965, III, p. 293.

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

"When we [followers of the prophetic Judaism] returned to Palestine...the majority of Jewish people preferred to learn from Hitler rather than from us." Martin Buber, to a New York audience, Jewish Newsletter, June 2, 1958.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Now who is more dangerous?: Iran with loud voice screaming infidels or Israel with Nukes screaming the above? You have to make the judgment.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
We all better start building nukes then because were going to need them .I'm an infidel and theres no way I,m going to sit back and let some religious zealot tell me how ,where, and when I'm going to live .There own words us or them if thats the case I choose us.The majority of people in this country are not trying to ram their religion down their throats but given the chance the leaders of Iran woudn't hesitate to do it to us 8O
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Where do you get your information from? I have never met anyone yet who is trying to shove their religion on us. I think you have been watching the O'rielly show lately.

have you ever wondered about foreigners going to the ME. Are they complaining that the Arab governments or people are trying to shove their religion on them? As a matter of fact, I see more Christian religion throat-shoving happening here with Jehovah's and the like. Or is Christian throat-Shoving allowed?

Just be open minded and don't just believe what you hear on Fox news.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
"We the Palestinian nation, our fate from Allah is to be the vanguard in the war against the Jews until the resurrection of the dead, as the prophet Muhammad said: "'The resurrection of the dead will not arrive until you will fight the Jews and kill them'"
- - Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Madi, Palestinian Television, 30 March 2001

"The Day of resurrection will not come without the victory of the believers over the descendants of the monkeys and pigs and with their annihilation."
- - Sheikh Muhammed Abd Al Hadi La'afi, Responsible for Religious Teaching and Instruction in the Office of the Wakf in the official P.A. newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, 18, May 2001

"...Oh you who are Jews, if you think that you are favored of Allah, to the exclusion of others. Then long for death if you are truthful. But they will never long for it because of the [deeds] their hands have sent before... as for the death from which you flee, that will surely overtake you ..."
- - Reading the Koran, sixth grade PA textbook, p.23

"O God, support the mujahidin for the sake of the triumph of your religion and the elevation of your word everywhere. O God, support them in Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya. O God, support the mujahidin in Palestine. O God, deal with the tyrant Jews for they are within your power. O God, we ask You to face them and spare us their evils. O God, whoever wishes us and Muslims evil, busy him with himself and make his plotting destroy him."... --Riyadh Kingdom of Saudi Arabia TV1, official television station of the Saudi Government, broadcast of live sermon by Shaykh Husayn al-Shaykh from the holy mosque in Mecca, August 30, 2002**

"O God, support our brother mujahidin for your sake everywhere. O God, grant them victory in Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya. O God, deal with the aggressor Jews and all aggressive infidels. O God, deal with them for they are within your power." - -Riyadh Kingdom of Saudi Arabia TV1, official station of the Saudi Government, broadcast of live sermon by Shaykh Abd-al-Rahman al-Sudays from the holy mosque in Mecca, July 19, 2002 **

One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only":

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.

If Israel is responsible for Islamist or Arabist wrath, I cannot imagine just what Israel did to encourage Syria to swallow Lebanon, to encourage Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait, to encourage Kuwait to expel hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, to encourage the Taliban to destroy the Bamiyan Buddha statues in Afghanistan, to encourage the slaughter of Christians in the Sudan.

Let's not also forget that Israel invaded Lebanon to help the expulsion of Arafat and co. And they pulled back out after he left, but Syria lingered for a while yet.

There are always two sides to a story, moghabri. Let's not also forget that after the UN recognized Israel, there have been 5 wars, none of which Israel started. The Arab-Israeli conflict is a very complex issue. It isn't quite black and white. There are 22 Arab countries and only one Jewish country. Think about that for a minute.

Israeli children are not taught to hate muslims, can you say the same for the muslims? I think not.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: Iran nuclear talks near collapse, UK warns

moghrabi said:
Now who is more dangerous?: Iran with loud voice screaming infidels or Israel with Nukes screaming the above? You have to make the judgment.

Israel has had nukes for like 30 years now and hasn't used one yet. If Iran goes that long without using one I'll be impressed. That includes giving Hizbollah a suitcase bomb to detonate in the lobby of the Empire state building.
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
Re: RE: Iran nuclear talks near collapse, UK warns

moghrabi said:
I will give you a real insight on what Israel wants to do

Wow, I had no idea you were so involved with the Israeli government, or were a citizen of Israel. C'mon, your insight on Israel is going to be greatly skewed. It is evident, from all your post, what your opinion of the country and of Jews is.

You can provide as much insight into the desires of Israel as I, as an Ontarian Anglophone, can into the desires of a Francophone Quebecer.

You have a right to an opinion, but don't play it off as fact using various quotes. Without the full text of what they said and the background on what brought about the statement, how can I really know the true context.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: Iran nuclear talks ne

Reverend Blair said:
It's kind of hard to make an argument that Iran shouldn't have nukes at that point.

I wish it was hard, because I sorta agree with where your coming from.

Iran signed the nonproliferation agreement. Had it not, there would be no argument.

Why did they sign that document anyways...?
 

Nosferax

Nominee Member
Re: RE: Iran nuclear talks near collapse, UK warns

Just the Facts said:
moghrabi said:
Now who is more dangerous?: Iran with loud voice screaming infidels or Israel with Nukes screaming the above? You have to make the judgment.

Israel has had nukes for like 30 years now and hasn't used one yet. If Iran goes that long without using one I'll be impressed. That includes giving Hizbollah a suitcase bomb to detonate in the lobby of the Empire state building.

Maybe not in the empire state building but they did blow up hotels before they gained their independence.

Maybe if Israel had written their constitution without the close that Israel was a jewish state only maybe, just maybe, some moderate arab politician at the time could have convince them to work toward a two founding nation state like we did here. And please don't gve me the excuse that the land belonged to the Israelite 2000 years ago. How would you feel if today, the native american took power and start deporting you or put you in camp because the land belonged to them 450 years ago and the US/UK decided that the native should be given their land back.

And, by the way, arab and israelite are in fact the same race (they are both semite). And also, jewish faith, christianity, muslim faith, all are a variation on the same theme. They are arguing about prophet, not about god. It's the same god for the three.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
We are taught from childhood that Israel is the peacful country that only want peace. This is taught from primary class to university. I will provide you with the links for the quotes I mntioned above and you will make your own decisions.
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
moghrabi said:
UKUSreal: "You must agree to stop production of nuclear weapons."

If I were Iran, I would ask why? Sure they signed the non-proliferation agreement, but did they do it so of their own free will or were they under duress when they signed. What is the fundamental reason they must not produce nuclear weapons.

I mean, are we to think that no other country has broken an agreement or treaty that they've signed?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Iran nuclear talks near collapse, UK warns

moghrabi said:
We are taught from childhood that Israel is the peacful country that only want peace. This is taught from primary class to university. I will provide you with the links for the quotes I mntioned above and you will make your own decisions.

Israel never started a war against an Arab state. It has always been in self-defense.