They lied to us

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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They lied to us
Molly Ivins - Creators Syndicate

05.10.05 - AUSTIN, Texas -- Meanwhile, back in Iraq. I was going to leave out of this column everything about how we got into Iraq, or whether it was wise, and or whether the infamous "they" knowingly lied to us. (Although I did plan to point out I would be nobly refraining from poking at that pus-riddled question.)

Since I believe one of our greatest strengths as Americans is shrewd practicality, I thought it was time we moved past the now unhelpful, "How did we get into his mess?" to the more utilitarian, "What the hell do we do now?"

However, I cannot let this astounding Downing Street memo go unmentioned.

On May 1, the Sunday Times of London printed a secret memo that went to the defense secretary, foreign secretary, attorney general and other high officials. It is the minutes of their meeting on Iraq with Tony Blair. The memo was written by Matthew Rycroft, a Downing Street foreign policy aide. It has been confirmed as legitimate and is dated July 23, 2002. I suppose the correct cliché is "smoking gun."

"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. (There it is.) The NSC (National Security Council) had no patience with the U.N. route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."

After some paragraphs on tactical considerations, Rycroft reports, "No decisions had been taken, but he (British defense secretary) thought the most likely timing in U.S. minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the U.S. congressional elections.

"The foreign secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the U.N. weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.

"The attorney general said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defense, humanitarian intervention or UNSC authorization. The first and second could not be the base in this case."

There is much more in the memo, which can be found easily online. What's difficult now is placing the memo in the timeframe. Can you remember how little you knew about a war with Iraq in July 2002? Most of us who opposed the war concluded some time ago this was the way it went down. There was plenty of evidence, though nothing this direct and cold. Think of the difference it would have made if we had known all this three years ago. Now? The memo was a huge story in Britain, but is almost unreported here.

The memo does get us some forwarder. At least it finally settles this ridiculous debate about how Dear Leader Bush just wanted to bring democracy all along and we did it all for George Washington.

Enough said. What to do? Now that we're there, at least we're on the right side, not even withstanding the disgusting Ahmed Chalabi as oil minister. Unfortunately, our very support for the good guys is making it much harder for them. A tactical Catch-22. I was impressed by the premise of Reza Aslan's new book, "No God but God," which is that all of Islam is undergoing a struggle between the modernists and the traditionalists, between reformers and reactionaries.

But in Iraq, which already had a secular state, we have the additional complication of sectarian/ethnic divisions -- your Sunnis, your Shiites, your Kurds -- not to mention, the tribalism within those divisions. (Am I bitter enough to point out once again that Paul Wolfowitz said under oath, "There is no history ethnic strife in Iraq"? You bet your ass I am.)

Our most basic problem in-country is that having the U.S. of A. on your side automatically makes you about as popular as a socialist in the Texas Legislature: We are working against the guys we want to win by supporting them. This requires some serious skulling but is not, in politics, all that unusual a pickle.

There is a political solution. Like all politics, it requires a deal. What about letting the interim government make a deal with the Sunnis for us to withdraw -- as in, "You cooperate with us, and we'll get the Americans out of here for you." We can't make that deal, but the Iraqis can.

(c) 2005 Creators Syndicate


http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19022
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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That's a great article overall.

That's the deal America wants, and that's the deal the world wants.

Now the world might be enjoying validation for why it hates America and sometimes that validation seems more important than solutions.

Perhaps if America removed itself from every adventure and entanglement then maybe the world might take a real serious look at its own flaws and its shared responsibility, and not make 150 excuses and rationalizations.

150.

Shake head slowly.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
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Kamloops BC
100.000,000 plus Iraqi's shakes head slowly :roll: How many deformed babys because of DU shakes head slowly ,How many new terrorist's around the world shakes head slowly,How many dead and mamed young US men and women shakes head slowly, for what So Bush 's friends and family can get rich off big military contracts shakes head slowly 8O
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
Give it up, Jimmy. If the US was to act like a responsible international citizen working through multilateral organizations like the UN, the world would line up behind you and support you in your endeavours. Instead you act like a huge, drunken biker shaking down smaller nations for their resources at gunpoint.

Now your chickens are coming home to roost. Why not act like a true patriot and start agitating for the impeachment and arrest of Bush and his cronies. You can try them for war crimes at home, or you can turn them over to the ICC.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
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May I remind the good citizens of British Columbia that their pension plans invest in depleted uranium at quite a benefit to the good and moral citizens of this erstwhile valid province, the original home of X-files !!!

May I remind the good citizens of France that most of their power is supplied by nuclear power and they have a lot of waste that would not have to sit in the deep dark salt caverns because it can be exported and manufactured as depleted uranium for weapons?

The good French are trying to seize the moral high ground and are betrayed by their own leaders and their own big business.

America will soon not be the power it was. It already has no friends.

But it will watch who steps in to the great void to lead the world.

Genocide never again in Europe?

The peace protesters did not want to do what it takes to stop it until big bad cowboy Bill Clinton stepped in.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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38
Winnipeg
It is Mogh for your info. And I AM BACK

And it is good to have you back. I miss Sponge Bob though. :)

America will soon not be the power it was. It already has no friends.

I'm betting on a complete financial collapse and an ensuing civil war, likely race-based, that throws you into the position of being a failed state.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
Jim you are correct but it's every province in the country and more than urainium it's 40 different Military industrial complex companys :x Theres a site where you can go and sign a petition against it :wink:
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
You know mrmom2, it's just about impossible to live and breathe in this world without unknowingly countenancing hypocrisy.

There will be a time, unfortunately, when nation states and borders no longer matter, thus giving even more power to the Corporation.

Having a cultural identity or a national patriotic feeling is widely condemned, but the critics better be careful for what they wish.

This discussion of depleted uranium is just one insidious example among many that this life humbles you with contradictions, especially while you gas up the car to finance more terrorism, a devilish matter most obliquely countenanced by the intellectuals of today.