EU economy 'at least 20 years' behind US

Blackleaf

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EU economy 'at least 20 years' behind US
11.03.2005 - 17:43 CET | By Richard Carter

EUOBSERVER/BRUSSELS - The US economy is 20 years ahead of that of the EU and it will take decades for Europe to catch up, according to an explosive new study published on Friday (11 March).

The survey, unveiled by pan-EU small business organisation Eurochambres, is intended as a sharp "wake-up call" for EU leaders as they gather on 22 March for a summit on how to boost growth and jobs in the EU economy.

The EU's current performance in terms of employment was achieved in the US in 1978 and it will take until 2023 for Europe to catch up, the report shows.

The situation is scarcely better when it comes to income per person. The US attained the current EU performance in 1985 and Europe is expected to close the gap in 2072.

But the bleakest picture comes when comparing the two economic blocs in terms of research and development. Europe is expected to catch up with the US in 2123 and then only if the EU outstrips America by 0.5 percent per year in terms of R&D investment.

Presenting the survey, Arnaldo Abruzzi, the Secretary-General of Eurochambres, said, "the current EU levels in GDP, R&D investment, productivity and employment were already reached by the US in the late 70s/early 80s".

"Even the most optimistic assumptions show it will take the EU decades to catch up and then only if there is considerable EU improvement", he concluded.

Furthermore, the survey points out that enlargement will make the EU's mountain even harder to climb.

"Data clearly suggest that including the 10 new member countries in the comparison would further deteriorate Europe's position compared to the US for all four major indicators", says the report.

The survey was conducted using a method called the "time distance measure", pioneered by Professor Pavle Sicherl at Ljubljana University.

Eurochambres called for EU leaders to focus on concrete actions to revive the EU's economy and for a communications strategy to lay out the economic challenges facing the EU.

The group represents 18 million enterprises across Europe.
 

no1important

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Re: RE: EU economy 'at least 20 years' behind US

missile said:
Why do they want to catch up to a country that is trillions of dollars in debt? Those wacky Europeans :p

I agree.

Plus with all that money being wasted on an illegeal occupation, "W" could provide health care cheaply or free to all Americans and put a dent into poverty in America. I know from first hand expeirence (seeing is believing) that there are areas in Chicago that make the Congo look like Buckingham palace.

But it is all about making money for himself and his buddies. It is all personnel gain for "W" and his buddies.
 

alienofwar

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Mar 2, 2005
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Well, not suprising at all considering the fact that much of Europe fell into a socialist craze. You see, thats what happens when the fish (people) in the ocean are hungry and the fishermen (gov't) is hanging bait. The people will always go for it for short gains of pleasure but in the long run fall into trouble. Socialism is a mental disorder, a society which only thinks with emotions but not with logic. The fact of the matter is that nature intended us to be competitive with each other and let the fittest surivive in this world.

Socialism is the opossite of this. It rewards the weak (welfare, child support, housing subsidies, etc) and punishes the successful (higher taxes, regulations, etc.), which is completely anti-nature and damaging to society as a whole.

The reality is what nature had intended and the fact of the matter is that the countries with less regulations and taxes are more successful. This is simple economics, we all understand this. Comparisons between Canada and the U.S is a common example. Also, on a smaller scale, tax-free Nevada and highly taxed and regulated California.

When you live in Canada...all you can hear on the radio is people saying, "please government, give me more, give me more...give more money to healthcare, more money to farms, more money to the poor". It never ends. In the U.S, similer tones are heard, but on a lighter scale because in this country a individualist mindset is more common and thus people rely less on gov't intervention in their lives.

You look at a survey in Canada and the U.S. In Canada, the most important issue is healthcare but in the U.S the most important issue is the economy. Who has a healthcare crisis??? Doesn't sound like it in the U.S. Consider the fact that only 16% of Americans thought healthcare was the number one issue in the election...but in Canada over 50% thought it was the number one issue in the election.
Come on, whats wrong with this picture???

There exists a fine line between ideology and reality and that line exists between the right and left political spectrum.
 

zenfisher

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alienofwar said:
You look at a survey in Canada and the U.S. In Canada, the most important issue is healthcare but in the U.S the most important issue is the economy. Who has a healthcare crisis??? Doesn't sound like it in the U.S. Consider the fact that only 16% of Americans thought healthcare was the number one issue in the election...but in Canada over 50% thought it was the number one issue in the election.
Come on, whats wrong with this picture???

There exists a fine line between ideology and reality and that line exists between the right and left political spectrum.

Hmmm... Do you think that might be because Canada is not as far in debt as the US? There economy is stable. That allows them to focus on issues that are truly important.Do you think it might be because Canada actually had a decent Medical program, until the Bean counters and those with a Conservative ( that would include the current Prime Minister) agenda cut it back so far that is less than what it should be?

I really get a chuckle from people that compare the business world to darwinian theory. Especially seeing as both countries cater to corporate welfare. Funny... the biggest, strongest and richest need help to survive. I find it also strange that we have police to monitor social laws...but corporatations and their boards are virtually rewarded for breaking the law. ( Martha is a prime example. She made more money in prison than she did working) We sentence people that rob a store, just so they can feed their family for 5 to 10. The Ceo or owner five months at a minimum security country club and we allow them to keep the money, plus earn more while their in jail.

Yeah... socialism is the problem.( if you couldn't tell...that was meant as sarcasm.)
 

EagleSmack

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zenfisher said:
alienofwar said:
You look at a survey in Canada and the U.S. In Canada, the most important issue is healthcare but in the U.S the most important issue is the economy. Who has a healthcare crisis??? Doesn't sound like it in the U.S. Consider the fact that only 16% of Americans thought healthcare was the number one issue in the election...but in Canada over 50% thought it was the number one issue in the election.
Come on, whats wrong with this picture???

There exists a fine line between ideology and reality and that line exists between the right and left political spectrum.

Hmmm... Do you think that might be because Canada is not as far in debt as the US? There economy is stable. That allows them to focus on issues that are truly important.Do you think it might be because Canada actually had a decent Medical program, until the Bean counters and those with a Conservative ( that would include the current Prime Minister) agenda cut it back so far that is less than what it should be?

I really get a chuckle from people that compare the business world to darwinian theory. Especially seeing as both countries cater to corporate welfare. Funny... the biggest, strongest and richest need help to survive. I find it also strange that we have police to monitor social laws...but corporatations and their boards are virtually rewarded for breaking the law. ( Martha is a prime example. She made more money in prison than she did working) We sentence people that rob a store, just so they can feed their family for 5 to 10. The Ceo or owner five months at a minimum security country club and we allow them to keep the money, plus earn more while their in jail.

Yeah... socialism is the problem.( if you couldn't tell...that was meant as sarcasm.)

I started reading this post with an open mind until I got to the point where you said.


"We sentence people who rob a store to feed their family."

This is so da*n disgusting and ignorant. You mean the "poor" man who guns down a store clerk to feed his drug habit. In Texas the father of two and a 21 year old college student taken to the back of a Convenient Store and executed. What about all of those "Caught on Tape" scenes of store clerks getting punched out for the cash register? Are their (the clerk) families not worth it? People who rob stores are common theives and worse. Get your head out of the clouds, they aren't robbing to feed families. It is for the quick money and it is to feed drug and alcohol addictions.

I did a search... Here is a clip of a "poor" family man robbing a store.

http://comments.big-boys.com/?id=3385
 

zenfisher

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If you want me to read a link ...make sure it works.

Not all poor men can afford a gun. Not all poor people are on drugs. You are intentionally missing the point and misleading the argument. I am talking about the poor schmuck , who doesn't hurt anyone and gets caught. You know damn well that's what I meant. You are trying to sensationalize this for whatever reason. I'm talking about survival, not greed or addiction. Of course there are violent acts commited and they should be punished to the full extent of the law. Why shouldn't we apply that princple to the affluent when they commit a crime?

Do you honestly think its fair that there is a soft law for the rich and corporations ? And a completely different set of laws for the poor.

Do you really think its in any nations best interest to reward corporations with tax breaks and corporate welfare...only to have those corporations lay off their workers and send those jobs overseas? Gee... and you two lean to the right. ( ES & AOW)How do you think we are going to pay back the debt? Do you honestly believe it will be on the backs of the rich ? Its you and I that will be paying for this, at least the rest of my life.

Do you really think its in our best interest to fill the prisons beyond capacity with the poor and underpriviledged? San Quentin's (sp) been in the news lately. They have so many people on death row they want to expand the size of the prison. Whose opposing this...real estate developers that want the land that the prison is on for development. Gee...what do you think is going to happen ? I'm betting on the 150 year old prison being moved. We can't keep putting the poor in prison and let the corporations and their leadership do whatever the" self edited" they want.
 

alienofwar

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I have to disagree with you zen master. If you have been paying attention to the news for the past few years you would notice that more and more affluent people are being charged with crimes rather than getting away with it. You bring up Martha Stewart and I agree, her sentence to 6 months was a joke. Thats unfortunately how it was decided in this case and well shes out and getting rich because of this.

Although I think you have to stop taking a gloomy perspective of this issue and look at the positive. 2 years ago a Corporate Fraud Task force was created to deal with these new scandals popping up and as a result justice is being served.

"The task force has prosecuted more than 700 people and obtained more than 300 convictions or guilty pleas, according to the most recent figures available from the Justice Department. A handful of acquittals and mistrials have resulted, and more than 300 investigations still are under way."

http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/07/12/75349.php


And just recently Bernard Ebbers who turned WorldCom Inc. into a telecommunications giant WorldCom Inc. was convicted of conspiracy and fraud and could face possibly 85 years in prision. I don't know if this was a result of the task force, but its just a sign that the justice system is finding these people and punishing them for their crimes. To say that the affluent are gettingaway with crimes or not being punished to the full extent is like slapping the stock holders in the face...and really, they are the ones that count the most...as well as for the reputation of the company.

And I laugh at how you come to believe that the Canadian economy is stable. Far from it my friend. I don't think you have been paying attention to news in that country and instead are relying on the left wing propaganda in the U.S. Well, no matter how Michael Moore likes to paint the picture in Canada, it is nothing like what he says. Don't be fooled. I laughed when I saw his Bowling for Columbine documentary, it was a great comedy...if only it was true.

Anyways, as a result of higher social spending and taxes in that country you have a higher unemployment rate and a high cost of living. Their economy is not that great, in fact our lower dollar in the U.S will hurt the Canadian economy and already data is out to show that.

"The Canadian economy slowed to a 1.7 per cent annual growth pace in the fourth quarter of 2004, matching economists' expectations, as a strong loonie continued to hurt manufacturers."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...142098&brand=theglobeandmail&force_login=true

Also, in response to corporate welfare...I am strongly against this as well. I believe this inteferes with a free market economy and favours some while not others. But don't forget that small bussiness welfare also exists as well.
 

EagleSmack

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Re: RE: EU economy 'at least 20 years' behind US

zenfisher said:
If you want me to read a link ...make sure it works.

Not all poor men can afford a gun. Not all poor people are on drugs. You are intentionally missing the point and misleading the argument. I am talking about the poor schmuck , who doesn't hurt anyone and gets caught. You know damn well that's what I meant. You are trying to sensationalize this for whatever reason. I'm talking about survival, not greed or addiction. Of course there are violent acts commited and they should be punished to the full extent of the law. Why shouldn't we apply that princple to the affluent when they commit a crime?

Do you honestly think its fair that there is a soft law for the rich and corporations ? And a completely different set of laws for the poor.

Do you really think its in any nations best interest to reward corporations with tax breaks and corporate welfare...only to have those corporations lay off their workers and send those jobs overseas? Gee... and you two lean to the right. ( ES & AOW)How do you think we are going to pay back the debt? Do you honestly believe it will be on the backs of the rich ? Its you and I that will be paying for this, at least the rest of my life.

Do you really think its in our best interest to fill the prisons beyond capacity with the poor and underpriviledged? San Quentin's (sp) been in the news lately. They have so many people on death row they want to expand the size of the prison. Whose opposing this...real estate developers that want the land that the prison is on for development. Gee...what do you think is going to happen ? I'm betting on the 150 year old prison being moved. We can't keep putting the poor in prison and let the corporations and their leadership do whatever the" self edited" they want.

The link works now. I learned how to do it yesterday. And no I did not know what you meant. Many liberals think that robbing a store maybe a bad thing but these criminals should not be punished.

So with no gun ... how does he rob a store? A knife? If a criminal holds a knife to a persons throat but does not cut it during a robbery.... would that be ok? Hmmmm....

"Well I know I threatened to slit your throat if you moved... But I didn't do it... I'm not that bad am I? I shouldn't go to jail."

Do you think the thought of being killed by a armed thug is acceptable? I hope you never have to stare down the barrel of a gun... but maybe you should talk to someone who has been held up. Ask them what goes through their head. Every thug and stick up man has a sad story to tell.

Now then... on "White Collar Crime". You are damn right I think these guys should be punished. I think that when some guy swindles millions of dollars in retirement funds etc. he should be sent away just like an armed robber should. They should be cell mates. I have "0" sympathy for these crooks and get real P*$$ed when they get 8 months at a Minimum Security Prison and get to keep all that they stole. Slowly these laws are being changed but not quick enough. So you're barking up the wrong tree.
 

EagleSmack

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Reverend Blair said:
Now then... on "White Collar Crime". You are damn right I think these guys should be punished.

So you agree that George Bush and Dick Cheney should stand trial then?

No, not at all.

Perhaps Hillary and Bill Clinton should.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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RE: EU economy 'at least

Well, Dicky could still end up in French prison. George has never been cleared of the insider trading charges against him.

How can you say that Bill and Hillary, who were thouroughly investigated, belong in prison and Georgie and Dicky don't?
 

EagleSmack

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Re: RE: EU economy 'at least

Reverend Blair said:
Well, Dicky could still end up in French prison. George has never been cleared of the insider trading charges against him.

How can you say that Bill and Hillary, who were thouroughly investigated, belong in prison and Georgie and Dicky don't?

Because they were knee deep in Real Estate fraud, withheld information and a laundry list of other violations and evasive tactics. Just because they had slick lawyers does not mean they were innocent.

Something tells me Dick will never see the inside of a French Prison.

Hillary and Bill had their day in court... bring the President and VP to court if you have a case.

Not meaning "you" in the singular Rev... but your base. Do you understand what I mean?
 

Reverend Blair

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RE: EU economy 'at least

Actually Cheney could be indicted. He has no diplomatic immunity because the crimes were committed when he was a private citizen. The case is being investigated in France, England, the US, and a few African countries.
 

mrmom2

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Mar 8, 2005
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Cheney should be indicted for handing all the contracts for the Iraq war to his former company halliburton and letting them overcharge the US taxpayer.Do you think he's still a stock holder? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

zenfisher

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Sep 12, 2004
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Yeah Eaglesmack your link works...doesn't prove your argument. That was just a thug. Funny thing though I didn't notice a gun...not even a knife. i wonder how he managed to commit a robbery?

I've never stared down the barrel of a gun, but a knife has been to my throat with a big dog barking at me.

I'm not talking about thugs, I'm talking about despiration, not because of addiction, but poverty.

Alien of War

Just cause I'm posting from Seattle doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two about Canada.

Any country that is as much in debt as we are(US) is in serious trouble. If you want to truly measure the strength of an economy ...don't do it in quarters ...look at span of five years. Bush is rumoured to be favouring a value added tax or goods and services tax to pay for the debt. Again that will hit middle America, the poor, and small business the hardest. Keep you cash loose...cause we are about to pay for a war.