Axworthy

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Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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I'm going to put the whole thing up because it's an open letter. Lloyd Axworthy sent a letter to Condi Rice. It was in yesterday's Winnipeg Free Press. Here it is.

Dear Condi,

I'm glad you've decided to get over your fit of pique and venture north to visit your closest neighbour. It's a chance to learn a thing or two. Maybe more.

I know it seems improbable to your divinely guided master in the White House that mere mortals might disagree with participating in a missile-defence system that has failed in its last three tests, even though the tests themselves were carefully rigged to show results.

But, gosh, we folks above the 49th parallel are somewhat cautious types who can't quite see laying down billions of dollars in a three-dud poker game.

As our erstwhile Prairie-born and bred (and therefore prudent) finance minister pointed out in presenting his recent budget, we've had eight years of balanced or surplus financial accounts. If we're going to spend money, Mr. Goodale added, it will be on day-care and health programs, and even on more foreign aid and improved defence.

Sure, that doesn't match the gargantuan, multi-billion-dollar deficits that your government blithely runs up fighting a "liberation war" in Iraq, laying out more than half of all weapons expenditures in the world, and giving massive tax breaks to the top one per cent of your population while cutting food programs for poor children.
Just chalk that up to a different sense of priorities about what a national government's role should be when there isn't a prevailing mood of manifest destiny.

Coming to Ottawa might also expose you to a parliamentary system that has a thing called question period every day, where those in the executive are held accountable by an opposition for their actions, and where demands for public debate on important topics such as missile defence can be made openly.

You might also notice that it's a system in which the governing party's caucus members are not afraid to tell their leader that their constituents don't want to follow the ideological, perhaps teleological, fantasies of Canada's continental co-inhabitant. And that this leader actually listens to such representations.

Your boss did not avail himself of a similar opportunity to visit our House of Commons during his visit, fearing, it seems, that there might be some signs of dissent. He preferred to issue his diktat on missile defence in front of a highly controlled, pre-selected audience.

Such control-freak antics may work in the virtual one-party state that now prevails in Washington. But in Canada we have a residual belief that politicians should be subject to a few checks and balances, an idea that your country once espoused before the days of empire.

If you want to have us consider your proposals and positions, present them in a proper way, through serious discussion across the table in our cabinet room, as your previous president did when he visited Ottawa. And don't embarrass our prime minister by lobbing a verbal missile at him while he sits on a public stage, with no chance to respond.
Now, I understand that there may have been some miscalculations in Washington based on faulty advice from your resident governor of the "northern territories," Ambassador Cellucci. But you should know by now that he hasn't really won the hearts and minds of most Canadians through his attempts to browbeat and command our allegiance to U.S. policies.

Sadly, Mr. Cellucci has been far too closeted with exclusive groups of 'experts' from Calgary think-tanks and neo-con lobbyists at cross-border conferences to remotely grasp a cross-section of Canadian attitudes (nor American ones, for that matter).

I invite you to expand the narrow perspective that seems to inform your opinions of Canada by ranging far wider in your reach of contacts and discussions. You would find that what is rising in Canada is not so much anti-Americanism, as claimed by your and our right-wing commentators, but fundamental disagreements with certain policies of your government. You would see that rather than just reacting to events by drawing on old conventional wisdoms, many Canadians are trying to think our way through to some ideas that can be helpful in building a more secure world.

These Canadians believe that security can be achieved through well-modulated efforts to protect the rights of people, not just nation-states.

To encourage and advance international co-operation on managing the risk of climate change, they believe that we need agreements like Kyoto.

To protect people against international crimes like genocide and ethnic cleansing, they support new institutions like the International Criminal Court -- which, by the way, you might strongly consider using to hold accountable those committing atrocities today in Darfur, Sudan.

And these Canadians believe that the United Nations should indeed be reformed -- beginning with an agreement to get rid of the veto held by the major powers over humanitarian interventions to stop violence and predatory practices.

On this score, you might want to explore the concept of the 'Responsibility to Protect' while you're in Ottawa. It's a Canadian idea born out of the recent experience of Kosovo and informed by the many horrific examples of inhumanity over the last half-century. Many Canadians feel it has a lot more relevance to providing real human security in the world than missile defence ever will.

This is not just some quirky notion concocted in our long winter nights, by the way. It seems to have appeal for many in your own country, if not the editorialists at the Wall Street Journal or Rush Limbaugh. As I discovered recently while giving a series of lectures in southern California, there is keen interest in how the U.S. can offer real leadership in managing global challenges of disease, natural calamities and conflict, other than by military means.
There is also a very strong awareness on both sides of the border of how vital Canada is to the U.S. as a partner in North America. We supply copious amounts of oil and natural gas to your country, our respective trade is the world's largest in volume, and we are increasingly bound together by common concerns over depletion of resources, especially very scarce fresh water.

Why not discuss these issues with Canadians who understand them, and seek out ways to better cooperate in areas where we agree -- and agree to respect each other's views when we disagree.

Above all, ignore the Cassandras who deride the state of our relations because of one missile-defence decision. Accept that, as a friend on your border, we will offer a different, independent point of view. And that there are times when truth must speak to power.

In friendship,
Lloyd Axworthy

Lloyd Axworthy is president of the University of Winnipeg and a former Canadian foreign minister.


You go Lloyd. :D
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
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Re: RE: Axworthy

EagleSmack said:
Sounds like a racist to me. That would not surprise me in the least.

Can you please point out racism?

Rev: Thanks for posting that. It's very refreshing.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Lloyd Axworthy is an ass as he points out here so nicely.

Good Luck University of Winnipeg.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Lloyd Axworthy's credentials as a statesman are impeccable, Jay. Condi Rice and anybody else who has a need to understand diplomacy and international relations would do well to listen to him.

His time at the U of W has shown him to be innovative, outspoken, and engaging.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
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I thought that was a very well written letter. Axworthy is a good statesmen and just pointed out the facts. I know the truth can hurt and America certainly does not like the truth. The American government and Cabinet should grow up and stop playing "mind games" and being whiney cry babies when another country disagrees with them or does not want to follow the American agenda.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: RE: Axworthy

Reverend Blair said:
Lloyd Axworthy's credentials as a statesman are impeccable, Jay.

If this is so, then why doesn't he use his impeccable statsmanship when penning letters the our closest ally? I'll tell you why, again, he's an ass. Maybe U of W deserves him, I don't know.



Reverend Blair said:
Condi Rice and anybody else who has a need to understand diplomacy and international relations would do well to listen to him.


Rice understands just fine. Thats why she hold the position she does. If she needs little Llyode, I'm sure she won't hesitate to ask for him.
 

fubbleskag

noYOUshutup
Sep 10, 2004
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Argumentum ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself. The most obvious example of this fallacy is when one debater maligns the character of another debater (e.g, "The members of the opposition are a couple of fascists!"), but this is actually not that common. A more typical manifestation of argumentum ad hominem is attacking a source of information -- for example, responding to a quotation from Richard Nixon on the subject of free trade with China by saying, "We all know Nixon was a liar and a cheat, so why should we believe anything he says?" Argumentum ad hominem also occurs when someone's arguments are discounted merely because they stand to benefit from the policy they advocate -- such as Bill Gates arguing against antitrust, rich people arguing for lower taxes, white people arguing against affirmative action, minorities arguing for affirmative action, etc. In all of these cases, the relevant question is not who makes the argument, but whether the argument is valid.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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If this is so, then why doesn't he use his impeccable statsmanship when penning letters the our closest ally? I'll tell you why, again, he's an ass. Maybe U of W deserves him, I don't know.

Private citizens can express ideas differently than politicians and diplomats. In this case Axworthy chose to use a tongue-in-cheek approach as he felt it would convey his message better.

Rice understands just fine. Thats why she hold the position she does. If she needs little Llyode, I'm sure she won't hesitate to ask for him.

Yeah, she understands diplomacy just fine, that's why she just pushed John R. Bolton, a known UN hater who has said publicly that there should not be international laws, as top US emmissary to the UN.

Nobody in the Bush regime understands diplomacy, Jay. That's how they managed to squander all the goodwill that the US had the day after 9-11.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
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I'm somewhat surprised that someone with Axworthy's political experience would be so brassen. You would think that a man that was a high ranking politician and one that still carries alot of influence, would know better.

Does he honestly think that Ms Rice is going to listen to anything Mr Axworthy has to say after such a letter?

There are many ways to get ideas across without being so critical.

Perhaps he was a politician for so long he has tired of kissing rearends and now wants to start smacking heads. Just wondering if he truly believes this will accomplish anything???

Mr Axworthy may be a private citizen now but we all know that he still carrie alot of influence in the Liberal party and thus is only a stone's throw from political power.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Reverend Blair said:
Private citizens can express ideas differently than politicians and diplomats. In this case Axworthy chose to use a tongue-in-cheek approach as he felt it would convey his message better.

And his message is clear; he's an ass. Only you would bother to defend a letter like this.


Reverend Blair said:
Yeah, she understands diplomacy just fine, that's why she just pushed John R. Bolton, a known UN hater who has said publicly that there should not be international laws, as top US emmissary to the UN.

Not everyone has this deep seeded love for the UN the way you do. Not everyone loves One World Government the way you do.


Perhaps Rice knows something you and Lloyd don't? No that couldn't possibly be the case...
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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And his message is clear; he's an ass. Only you would bother to defend a letter like this.

He's had letters of support from all over the US and Canada, even some from Europe. It seems most canadians and about half of Americans support him.

Not everyone has this deep seeded love for the UN the way you do. Not everyone loves One World Government the way you do.

You don't send a goon like that to work with the UN, Jay. It's stupid, counterproductive, and divisive.

Does he honestly think that Ms Rice is going to listen to anything Mr Axworthy has to say after such a letter?

Open letters are designed to generate political pressure, tibear. Axworthy knew exactly what he was doing and he did it very well.
 

Mooseskin Johnny

Electoral Member
Dec 23, 2004
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Reverend, I admire your patience.

I agree with Axworthy's letter. It's excellent. We need more people, Canadians and non-Canadians, to stand up against America's foreign policies.

And, Canadians need to learn to stop kissing American butt.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
I agree with Axworthy's letter. It's excellent. We need more people, Canadians and non-Canadians, to stand up against America's foreign policies.

That's slowly happening, Mooseskin. Part of the problem is the media...if I would have written the same letter that Axworthy did, the Free Press never would have published it and even if they did it wouldn't have garnered international attention.

People like Axworthy are beginning to speak out though. We've seen it in Canada and we've seen it in Britain, as well as the rest of Europe. We've seen a lot of it in the US as people like Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky have been recognized by a wider audience.

I don't know if things can be turned around quickly enough, but at least people who have influence are beginning to step up to the plate. It can be very effective and that scares the hell out of the radical right and the corporate establishment, which is why they are so quick to villify those who do speak out.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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I know it seems improbable to your divinely guided master in the White House that mere mortals might disagree with participating in a missile-defence system that has failed in its last three tests, even though the tests themselves were carefully rigged to show results.


Master in the White House? Saying that to an African-American... Racist.

Typical of liberals... they oppose any minorities that make it on their own and dare not bow before the Liberal Elite. Liberals and Democrats are the worst racist of all.
 
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