Putting things into perspective - ( READ!! )

[Detroit]

The world cries and rush to aid the victims on the tsunami in Southeast Asia and Africa. So far there's 150,000+ people dead.

Saddam killed 600,000!!!!!!! During is rule in Iraq

http://www.gbn.com/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&msp=1242

Killing on average 75 to 125 people a day. Yet the world tried everything to stop the USA and our friends from liberating Iraq

************************

Everyone wants to cry about torture! Wrapping someone in an Israeli flag is torture? Shaving someone's chin is torture??

Then what the hell is haging someone upside down and beating his feet with a baseball bat. What about raping someones daughter or wife in order to make them speak. What about giving someone electrical charges to the nuts??????

Just think for a second.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hi! Detroit

You asked readers to take a "second" to put things in perspective.

Well, we Canadians are pretty swift. We only needed half-a-second.

Within half-a-second, I easily recognized that the US killed more than 250 thousand Iraqi citizens during 12 years of sanctions.

Calm

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Of course Saddam Hussein was (is) a monster. Did people here on this forum ever claimed otherwise? And does that mean that we can't criticise things done by the US army in lets say the Abu Grain prison? Is it such a black-white situation that the "liberators" can never be blamed of crimes against humanity?

 

[Detroit]

Re: RE: Putting things into perspective - ( READ!! )

Of course Saddam Hussein was (is) a monster. Did people here on this forum ever claimed otherwise? And does that mean that we can't criticise things done by the US army in lets say the Abu Grain prison? Is it such a black-white situation that the "liberators" can never be blamed of crimes against humanity?

If we were fight another Army, then yes. But we are fight terrorist who booby trap DEAD BODIES!! You have to fight fire with fire. And why would anyone be against getting that murder out of power? Ummm....... I know. They were getting kick-backs in the UN Oil for Food program. Ummmm or maybe it's because they are anti-American.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

What are you talking about? Are you talking about Saddam Hussein? Are you talking about Iraqi insurgents? Was your response an answer to all of my questions?

 

[Detroit]

Re: RE: Putting things into perspective - ( READ!! )

What are you talking about? Are you talking about Saddam Hussein? Are you talking about Iraqi insurgents? Was your response an answer to all of my questions?

Ok, let me take it step by step.

Saddam needed to be over-thrown. True of False??

Everyone was aginst the USA invading Iraq. True of False??

They wanted Saddam the murder to stay in Power. True or False??

The main countries that were agianst the USA (France, Germany etc.) where getting kick-backs from the Oil for Food program in Iraq)

The USA has to fight a guerilla war with TERRORIST. They defeated the Iraqi "ARMY". Non of the Iraqi soldiers where torture. The USA abided by the Geneva convention. But terrorist aren't protected by the Geneva Convetion. There their torture tatics are 1000x worst then Americas.

Did you soldiers behead tied up cilvilans??

 

[Detroit]

Hi! Detroit

You asked readers to take a "second" to put things in perspective.

Well, we Canadians are pretty swift. We only needed half-a-second.

Within half-a-second, I easily recognized that the US killed more than 250 thousand Iraqi citizens during 12 years of sanctions.

Calm

Please elaborate. Please provide links.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Saddam needed to be over-thrown. True of False??

If you mean that he is a dictator and he needed to get rid off: don't know how I can't agree. But my definition of "to be over-thrown" does not include bombing a large part of the country at cost of a lot of civilian lives and enforcing instability by ... well too much to sum up.

Everyone was aginst the USA invading Iraq. True of False??

Looking at the facts: no. Considering there are a lot of countries who participated in the invasion of Iraq - including my own country. However, looking at the opinion of the people, I would say: yes, but they had reason to. I was one of them.

They wanted Saddam the murder to stay in Power. True or False??

You do have a weird sense of logic, I say. Is this your conclusion from the answers on your previous two questions? I don't think many people were in favor of Saddam staying in power, because we can't deny that he was a tyran, but the way to get rid of him is not by - as I said - bombing the country, moving in with an entire army, making the country increasingly instable by the space that is created in which there is room for fundamentalist, nationalistic etc. movements and proving to be a bad "liberator" by the numerous examples of torture and abuse, and even murder.

The main countries that were agianst the USA (France, Germany etc.) where getting kick-backs from the Oil for Food program in Iraq)

Do you think that the majority of the people opposed the Iraq war because France and Germany allegedly were getting kick-backs from the Oil for Food program?

The USA has to fight a guerilla war with TERRORIST. They defeated the Iraqi "ARMY". Non of the Iraqi soldiers where torture. The USA abided by the Geneva convention. But terrorist aren't protected by the Geneva Convetion. There their torture tatics are 1000x worst then Americas.

OK first of all, it's "TERRORIST-S"; it's "were tortured", not "where torture"; it's "Conve-n-tion"; it's "ta-c-tics"; it's "wors-e th-a-n America-n-s". Anyway: is this a case of "what they do, we can do too?" If the US is the democracy it says it is they should respect the integrity of the body like the basic rules of human rights tell us so, whether the victim is terrorist or not.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Putting things into p

I hope that every in your country isn't as willfully ignorant of the facts as you are, Detroit. Here are a few to get you started though.

Fact: Saddam did not have weapons of mass destruction.

Fact: The UN weapons inspectors said, very publicly, that Saddam did not have WMD.

Fact: Colin Powell went to the UN with some cartoon drawings of some trucks as proof that Saddam had WMD. That "proof" was overwhelmingly dismissed by the world community.

Fact: Joe Wilson, a senior US diplomat and specialist in the Middle East, went to Niger to discover the truth about the alleged sales of yellowcake to Iraq. He found that it wasn't true at all and backed up the IAEA's contention that the documents were forged. The Bush administration refused to listen to him and, when he went public, his wife was "outed" as being a CIA agent.

Fact: Saddam Hussein posed no threat to the US.

Fact: The US used massive bombing campaigns in Iraq at a great cost of civilian lives.

Fact: The US failed to protect Iraq from looting after they invaded.

Fact: Saddam had no part in 9-11.

Fact: There has been no evidence of ties between Saddam and Osama bin Laden or al Qaeda.

Fact: Dick Cheney was the former CEO of Halliburton and still receives money from them.

Fact: Halliburton and its subsiduaries were granted huge no-bid contracts in Iraq.

Fact: PNAC has been pushing for the US to invade Iraq for years. They don't care about Saddam, their stated reasons are control of the oil and having a military presence in the Middle East.

Fact: The US props up many dictators around the world and has done so for a very long time.

Fact: Saddam used to be one of those dictators and was committing atrocities when he was best buddies with the US. The US, under the Reagan administration, prevented international condemnation of those atrocities by the UN.

Learn some facts. While you're at it, change your damned signature. It has no connection to the facts either.

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

To put things in perspective, the United States, like any other country, has the right to defend itself. Defense is something you do at your border when attacked. The US does not have the right to act as the world's policeman, nor to invade other countries as its President sees fit. The US does not have the right to bully other countries and other peoples. And it dies not have the right to decide who should rule other countries and what policies they should adopt.

Frankly, it's time for Americans to get off their high horse and join in peaceful co-existance with the rest of the world. To do this, Americans will have to toss most of their politicians and corporate leaders in jail.

 

[Detroit]

Re: RE: Putting things into p

I hope that every in your country isn't as willfully ignorant of the facts as you are, Detroit. Here are a few to get you started though.

Fact: Saddam did not have weapons of mass destruction. I didn't say anything about WMD. How do you know Saddam didn't have WMD? How do you know he didn't ship them out of the country before the war? How do you know that they aren't still in Iraq in some top secret place? Fact is we don't know and the jury is still out on this one.

Fact: The UN weapons inspectors said, very publicly, that Saddam did not have WMD. Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf also said: "They killed all the American soldiers in Iraq" Did you believe him too? It's well known in this day and age you can't believe whatever someone says and take it as fact..


Fact: Saddam Hussein posed no threat to the US. He support terrorists and he poised a treat to Iraqis and neighboring countries. Should we just close our eyes and pretend he's not killing his own people?

Fact: The US used massive bombing campaigns in Iraq at a great cost of civilian lives. People die in war!! There will be civilian casualties. That's a well known and appected fact.

Fact: The US failed to protect Iraq from looting after they invaded. We shouldn't have liberated the Iraq's because there was some looting? That's what you are saying?

Fact: Dick Cheney was the former CEO of Halliburton and still receives money from them. Ok. what does this have to do with having an anti-war stand?

Fact: Halliburton and its subsiduaries were granted huge no-bid contracts in Iraq. ok. The war was unjust because Halliburton received no bid contracts? Let's try to stay on the topic shall we?

Fact: PNAC has been pushing for the US to invade Iraq for years. They don't care about Saddam, their stated reasons are control of the oil and having a military presence in the Middle East. Give me proof, give me a link. Or is that just your opinion and you are passing it off as fact?

Learn some facts. I have learned many facts but I'm always willing to learn more. Maybe if you gave some links to back-up your FALSE claims :sign5: ....... well forget it.

While you're at it, change your damned signature. It has no connection to the facts either.
Yes, you are correct. I should change my sig base solely on that fact that you don't like it. Give me a :roll:

*
*
Something just clicked!! Is this Reverend Blair from CanadaKicksAss? lol, that explains alot

 

[Reverend Blair]

I didn't say anything about WMD.

That was the reason for the invasion. Without them, and they'd have to have the range to reach the US, the invasion was illegal.

How do you know Saddam didn't have WMD?

The UN weapons inspectors said so.

How do you know he didn't ship them out of the country before the war?

There is NO credible evidence of that.

How do you know that they aren't still in Iraq in some top secret place?

King Georgie and all his horses and all his men can't find them. You said you knew exactly where they were before you illegally invaded. Which is it?

Fact is we don't know and the jury is still out on this one.

The fact is that king Geogie lied to the American people and the world.

Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf also said: "They killed all the American soldiers in Iraq" Did you believe him too?

He isn't a credible international agency presenting facts.

It's well known in this day and age you can't believe whatever someone says and take it as fact..

That's why hardly anybody believed Georgie. Facts and evidence are required. Cartoon pictures of trucks don't cut it.

He support terrorists and he poised a treat to Iraqis and neighboring countries.

Actually neighbouring countries weren't worried about him at all. He did pose a threat to Iraqis, but that threat was much larger under the US-imposed sanctions and was ignored by the US when Hussein was their pal.

Should we just close our eyes and pretend he's not killing his own people?

How much money do you give Islam Karimov? He boils people alive. Don't try to feed me this "humanitarian cause" crap, it doesn't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny. You had no problem ignoring that Saddam was killing his own people when he was your friend and you have no trouble ignoring the malfeasance of dictators all over the globe.

There will be civilian casualties. That's a well known and appected fact.

You want to kill one or two people in an area so you drop cluster bombs and DU bunker busters on entire neighbourhoods? That's the equivalent of the death penalty for parking tickets. Shock and awe my ass, that's mass murder.

We shouldn't have liberated the Iraq's because there was some looting? That's what you are saying?

I'm saying that under international law (that the US helped develop) and US military law it is up to the occupying force to ensure that law and order is enforced and that hospitals, infrastructure required by civilians, and national treasures are protected. Instead your boys were protecting the Ministry of Oil in downtown Baghdad.

Ok. what does this have to do with having an anti-war stand?

Because waging war so some ********* with no heart and a cancerous love of larceny and greed can turn a buck is wrong.

The war was unjust because Halliburton received no bid contracts? Let's try to stay on the topic shall we?

When a war is being fought to promote the greed and corruption of a nation's leaders, then that greed and corruption is the topic.

Give me proof, give me a link. Or is that just your opinion and you are passing it off as fact?

Check out the PNAC website. Get really ambitious and type PNAC into Google.

I have learned many facts but I'm always willing to learn more.

Apparently not.

Something just clicked!! Is this Reverend Blair from CanadaKicksAss? lol, that explains alot

Reverend Blair Is from Regina and currently lives in Winnipeg. Who might you be, Detroit?

 

[Detroit]

Ok Rev. I respectfuly disagree with your views. I guess you see the world through your Maple Leafs glasses and I guess I see the world through my red strips and stars glasses.

What I was really trying to say is if you aren't with us you are against us. That means you are with "them". "Them" being the Saddam and the terrorists.

Fact is people are so quick to talk about the US wrongs but don't say anything about the terrorist. They are so quick to pounce on the US for over-throwing a ruthless monster.

 

[Detroit]

RE: Putting things into p

Detroit is 20/m/Detroit, Michigan

 

[missile]

Here's a perspective for ya: The US has gone from being the world policeman to the world bully.

 

[ElPolaco]

Detroit,
I won't bother to reply to your latest post because, if you re-read the Revs post, he more than adequately deals with your accusations. Rev is not looking at the world through "Maple Leaf glasses", but simply looking at reality. I'm from the U.S., what kind of glasses am I wearing (other than my trifocals)?

 

[peapod]

Don't forget half of america does no share detroits perspective. So at least half the country thinks. Personally I look at this way. Where was the US when sadam was gassing kurds? Where did he get the chemicals to do this? Why did the US drop support of democratic opposition in the first gulf war?
How did they get from afganistan to Iraq? The biggest question of all to me is what gives them the right to show someone the "door" and than try to force them through it. Its all so hypocritical, and the world sees it. Its the same history lesson over and over again. The US supports brutal tyrants and when they turn on them, its the citizens that pay the price.

Insanity----Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I guess you see the world through your Maple Leafs glasses and I guess I see the world through my red strips and stars glasses.

I guess that's maybe the big difference here. If I was in downtown BugF**k, Arkansas I'd still be saying the same thing. I know that because I spent a lot of my young life in downtown BugF**k, Saskatchewan.

What you don't quite get, Detroit, is that I don't hate America. I've read what your founding fathers had to say. I still believe in that shining city on the hill.

I don't restrict that shining city by nations though. I'll challenge anybody who thinks they shut the gates to that city...right now that would be the leaders of your nation and anybody that supports them.

 

[peapod]

To bad some of those founding fathers were not around today rev. It does not get much better than henry thoreau in my book, and his essay on civil disobedience stands the test of time.

 

[Detroit]

RE: Putting things into p

Why is it that there is a 5 page thread about if Bush order an Israeli flag to be place on some terrorist to try to gain information in order to save US soldiers but yet I don't see any threads about of the insurgents are booby-trapping dead bodies!!

I see all negetives and no positives about the war. Tell both sides of the story and from a non-bias perspective.