US living in 'fantasy land' over Iraq

[moghrabi]

US living in 'fantasy land' over Iraq
24 December 2004

A new report blames the continuing bloodshed in Iraq on America's failure to honestly assess the situation.


The US is facing increasingly deadly attacks in Iraq because, as in the Vietnam War, it failed to honestly assess facts on the ground and is living in "fantasy land", a report says.

The report, prepared by Anthony Cordesman, senior fellow of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, said Administration spokesmen and women had appeared to live "in a fantasy land" when giving accounts of events in Iraq.

Mr Cordesman, a former Pentagon official who has made several trips to Iraq, said Iraqi spies were a serious threat to US operations and that there was no evidence insurgent numbers were declining, despite vigorous US and Iraqi counterattacks.

.......

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3138948a12,00.html

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

And not just Iraq. Americans as a population have spent too much time in Disneyland. They have no idea what their leaders are doing in their name. And the leaders live in a grandeur of their own making. It's a recipe for repeated disasters until the house of cards comes tumbling down.

 

[Gonzo]

Another problem is that the American people get a serious watered down report on whats realy going on. They are seriously brainwashed into thinking that there army can win any war. This is a war they cant win. Iraqi people dont want them there. Why are they there?

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

Another problem is that the American people get a serious watered down report on whats realy going on. They are seriously brainwashed into thinking that there army can win any war. This is a war they cant win. Iraqi people dont want them there. Why are they there?

You're right.

What I haven't figured out is why the entire Middle East hasn't risen up against the US.

 

[moghrabi]

Well the answer from the horses mouth. An American member on this forum gives his opinion. Please read the entire thread then you can think for yourselves how Americans think.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2958&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

And Paco can be considered to be the average American?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: US living in 'fantasy

Judging by the last election results, he represents about half the population. More importantly, he agrees with and supports the policies of his government.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Not half of the US population actually voted for Bush - only 60% or so voted at all. Look, there are I guess different reasons why people vote for Bush. People who vote for Bush do not have to agree with his policies in Iraq, but feel like they have to vote for Bush for other reasons, like Bush's stance on abortion, gay marriage or his dealing with the economy.

 

[moghrabi]

Numbers do not matter, it is the principle. these people voted for him knowing well his dictatorial plans and his aggression to wards other nations.

What bothers me about these people who voted for him because they support his stance on abortion is that they like it because he does not like to kill a fetus, but love to kill families.

 

[Scape]

Re: RE: US living in 'fantasy land' over Iraq

Numbers do not matter, it is the principle. these people voted for him knowing well his dictatorial plans and his aggression to wards other nations.

I don't buy that. I don't even buy that the majority of Americans even voted for this clown. As the previous poster stated 60% didn't even bother to vote. I believe the majority just don't take international politics seriously, it's just absurd to think Joe 6-pack has any sway over a Kofi or Greenspan. More over I think they do react to policies that have a more direct effect on their lifestyle choices like abortion. Like when the doctor strikes the kneecap your going to kick. It dosen't mean that Americans are insane warmongering fools. That being said the US really is like a runaway chuck wagon with no way to slow down, industry (The horses) are run by profit and stockholders whose sole interest is profit, everything else is secondary at this point. It takes real leadership to pull back on the reigns and that's hard to do when your being paid by the same people who gain from keeping things the way they are. Eventually the horses will tire as they run headlong into enough problems but not before beating the wagon to pieces. It will take a true leader to cut himself from the reins and start from scratch. That will take monumental courage on the scale of a Gandhi or a Dr Martin Luther King Jr. and people fear change, they know things are crazy but they will still choose the devil they know. Change is in the air and it is only a matter of time before the horses tire.

 

[moghrabi]

Re: RE: US living in 'fantasy land' over Iraq

Numbers do not matter, it is the principle. these people voted for him knowing well his dictatorial plans and his aggression to wards other nations.

I don't buy that. I don't even buy that the majority of Americans even voted for this clown. As the previous poster stated 60% didn't even bother to vote. I believe the majority just don't take international politics seriously, it's just absurd to think Joe 6-pack has any sway over a Kofi or Greenspan. More over I think they do react to policies that have a more direct effect on their lifestyle choices like abortion. Like when the doctor strikes the kneecap your going to kick. It dosen't mean that Americans are insane warmongering fools. That being said the US really is like a runaway chuck wagon with no way to slow down, industry (The horses) are run by profit and stockholders whose sole interest is profit, everything else is secondary at this point. It takes real leadership to pull back on the reigns and that's hard to do when your being paid by the same people who gain from keeping things the way they are. Eventually the horses will tire as they run headlong into enough problems but not before beating the wagon to pieces. It will take a true leader to cut himself from the reins and start from scratch. That will take monumental courage on the scale of a Gandhi or a Dr Martin Luther King Jr. and people fear change, they know things are crazy but they will still choose the devil they know. Change is in the air and it is only a matter of time before the horses tire.

I like the way you put it Scape. But I really would like to know if the american people are so blind that they voted for a moron without taking what is happeining in Iraq seriously. They are losing the war. The horses are getting tired.

 

[Scape]

Blind? No, they have CNN, MSNBC and Fox. Media you can trust, just ask the Iraqi's. The US knows it's not a pretty sight in Iraq and see Iraq as either Vietnam part 2 or the US version of the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. A more appropriate lens would be the Algerian conflict. There was a great movie about that war that the US leadership watched as a training video before they invaded so they knew what they were signing on to and as for the average American they have more faith in faith then their own Constitution. They have more trust in the sneer of a Bush son then the true conservatism of a Badnarick. They know Bush is a greedy SOB, they know how to control that, or at least they think they know.

I posted on CKA this thread that explains in more detail: Link

 

[Reverend Blair]

Speaking of the right-wing American press....The truth about the Oil for Food Scandal is coming out now. Turns out that the UN did what they were supposed to and the US didn't. There is absolutly no basis to the neo-cons cries for destroying the UN or their screams for the resignation of Kofi Annan. It was all made up by pundits in the pocket of George W. Bush.

The Nation has this excellent story on it. http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050110&c=1&s=williams

There are a lot of other stories about it out there too, but this one hits all the major facts. The truth is that the UN did nothing wrong, Kofi Annan did nothing wrong, and the neo-cons were lying. Again. Like always.

 

[no1important]

I am not suprised. America is always looking to blame someone else for their "ills". USA is just mad at the UN because they did not back the illegeal invasion of Iraq.

In all honesty the USA is slowley turning into a rogue nation.

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

Re: RE: US living in 'fantasy land' over Iraq

In all honesty the USA is slowley turning into a rogue nation.

What do you mean by slowly? The US has been heading that way for a long time. Their goofy Cold War logic has taken them on a path that will ultimately pit the US against the rest of the world. The future does not look good.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

This is not a personal attack, but to all of you who believe the US is heading towards mayhem and chaos: is that what the facts tell us or is that what you yourself want to see happening? I've heard this comment so many times, and it's meaning just starts to sound so ... hollow, so nothing (with all respect) ... can someone prove to me that I'm really wrong?

 

[moghrabi]

This is my personal opinion. I see both of your points happening. I do see the US losing this war (if not lost already). Second, it is what I want exactly, for the US to lose this war. As I said before, this war is illegal and only to benefit the morons at the white house. How can I wish them to win a war based on lies of a man who speaks to God that instructs him to kill innocent people in the name of democracy and the he appoints puppets of his choosing.

I hope the men and women of the US army come back soon and alive. But I also hope that this will be a lost war for them.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Thanks for your opinion moghrabi, but I was actually pointing at the broader spectrum, the US itself, the economy, politics etc. I share the same opinion with you when it comes to Iraq, but I don't know whether I can agree with some people here who say that the US itself is near to "destruction".

 

[moghrabi]

I wouldn't go that far yet. There are a lot of chatter about this topic and it seems possible but I personally don't see it yet.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Me neither.