Foreign dislike of Bush spreads to Americans

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Published December 14, 2004

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ASSOCIATED PRESS
International resentment toward President Bush has spilled over to include bad feelings about the American people -- in at least in three European countries that oppose U.S. policies in Iraq.
But Americans in general remain far more popular than their president -- often by margins of 2-to-1 and higher -- according to polling done for the Associated Press in seven U.S. allies.

Cont....

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20041213-101417-3152r.htm
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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RE: Foreign dislike of Bu

I think Bush is going to be walking into a wall when he heads to Europe. The people don't like him, the leaders don't like him, and he's sworn to continue following the same failed policies that caused that dislike in the first place.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
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members.shaw.ca
I think by the time "W" is out of power in 49 months from now America will be a lot more isolated from the world community than they are now. Especially if he ever goes into Iran or South Korea.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
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I see it as part of the great plan .....

Let's face it .... the US economy is crashing. China is quickly becoming the world financial power. It took Japan 50 years, but China will do it in five years, because of technology.

There is a huge shift goin' on and the pain is being felt everywhere. Imagine the pain that people in third world countries endure when the price of oil fluctuates to 55 bucks a barrel?

When Americans feel under seige, they will accept anything. It serves the US government well to have it's People feel that they are under attack by anything and everyone. Thus; they are more likely to accept the huge "police" presence they are now taking within our personal lives.

The crash or re-distribution of wealth to China is going to happen rather quickly, but not painlessly.
The Americans are a proud People. They will blame all the chaos on everyone else in the world. They will become more adamant that their way must of been right because look at what they get in return for all the years of kindness they gave the world in the past. They will just resent the rest of humanity moreso than now.

The media will push them along this path. Sort of .... "Trust your government because they are the only one's left who are on your side."

All the social programs are going to be downsized. All the promises which government made to it's People will be withdrawn. It will all be blamed on everyone else, but Americans.

Imagine IBM selling China the whole Ka-Boodle? They even sold them the "intellectual" properties! Wow! That is how desperate the US economy is.

No one of any consequence wants to remain on Bush's team. They are leaving in droves. No one wants to be branded as being in the Whitehouse as the economy crumbled.

Anyone with money will need to live in gated communities with security at the gate. The rest, will fend for themselves, just like the 30's.
Not everyone starved in the 30's. But there was pain.

And in Canada, our prime minister is off travelling the globe and spouting-off about some grand "ideas" ..... not policies! Just grandiose and candy-ass plans for everywhere in the world but at home!
Oh! my, he looks so postive.
Meanwhile .... Bombardier stock fell 80% during the past 3 years!
I sure wish Paul Martin would find some great ideas for what he is gonna do for Canada's economy.
The charade is over! He has a 45 billion dollar surplus in the EI fund and another 11 billion in fiscal budget and he thinks a raise in minimum wage or assistance for the desperate poor is an "idea" of the past!


Calm
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Foreign dislike of Bu

That does seem to be where it's headed, Calm. What gets me is the denial. So many in the US (and in Canada) think that everything will be just fine as long as they don't acknowledge the problems. It's a bizarre reaction and it runs not just across the economic problems, but the environmental and social problems.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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How can the "foreign dislike of Bush" spead to Americans when Americans, to Bush, aren't foreigners?
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,429
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Re: RE: Foreign dislike of Bu

Reverend Blair said:
I think Bush is going to be walking into a wall when he heads to Europe. The people don't like him, the leaders don't like him, and he's sworn to continue following the same failed policies that caused that dislike in the first place.


The leaders of Britain, Poland and Italy are allied to Bush, so did Spain's former leader.

Also, most of the new Eastern Europe members states are allied with Bush.

The majority of the members of the EU allied themselves with Bush and Blair over Gulf War II.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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"Old Europe" - (France, Germany and Belgium) were against the war in Iraq.

"New Europe" - (Britain, Italy, Spain, Poland, and the Former States of the USSR) were FOR the war in Iraq.

That's why anti-EU Britain has MORE allies in the EU than both France and Germany have.

I believe that one day, the countries of New Europe, mostly anti-federsalist countries, will leave the Union, and start there own Free trade area, similar to NAFTA, where they will remain free and independent nations.

France, Germany and Belgium, the only pro-federalist nations in the EU, can do what they like.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Re: RE: Foreign dislike of Bu

Reverend Blair said:
That does seem to be where it's headed, Calm. What gets me is the denial. So many in the US (and in Canada) think that everything will be just fine as long as they don't acknowledge the problems. It's a bizarre reaction and it runs not just across the economic problems, but the environmental and social problems.

America's economic problems are nothing compared to the future econimic problems that the EU will experience.

Its share of the world economy will halve over the next 30 years, whereas America's share will remain roughly the same.

The US, China and India will be the world's three largest economies and three most populous nations.

The EU will sink into obscurity.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Foreign dislike of Bu

Poland is having second thoughts, Blackleaf. All indications are that Blair is trying to distance himself from Bush. The European people don't like Bush and their leaders are starting to listen...especially after the last Spanish election.

As for your estimate that the the US is going to remain roughly the same size economically while the EU shrinks...I don't think so. The US is in major economic trouble and all indications are that is starting to affect the way they are viewed by other countries. It is starting to snowball.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
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Will we see this downward spiral in our lifetime?


And in Canada, our prime minister is off travelling the globe and spouting-off about some grand "ideas" ..... not policies! Just grandiose and candy-ass plans for everywhere in the world but at home

I realize I'm stretching things here when I suggest this, but I'm an optomist at heart. Do you think that maybe the reason he is spouting off ideas to other countries is his way of being the exact opposit of bush? Showing Europe and the world just how different Canada is thent he states? Again I know I'm stretching things....but I thought I'd ask
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
RE: Foreign dislike of Bu

If Martin's view of globalisation was substantially different from Bush's, or the other northern/western leaders', I'd be inclined to agree with you, Twila. All indications are that he's basically happy with the status quo though.

His idea of an L-20 is basically a G-8 expanded to include some coming powers, but with an army to impose their will on less advanced nations. While he likes to point at Darfur as a reason why this is necessary, he doesn't say much about Haiti or Columbia.

What happens if Venezuela decides to cut all oil to the US? How will the L-20 react to that if the US is part of the L-20? What if Nigeria decides it wants the multi-nationals out, how long before the L-20 backs a coup?

I think an L-20 is a good idea, but I doubt Martin's version of it. Some middle powers, some coming powers, and some developing nations could make a difference, but another group led by the rich guys in the fancy suits doesn't make much sense.
 

Rick van Opbergen

House Member
Sep 16, 2004
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Blackleaf said:
"Old Europe" - (France, Germany and Belgium) were against the war in Iraq.

"New Europe" - (Britain, Italy, Spain, Poland, and the Former States of the USSR) were FOR the war in Iraq.

That's why anti-EU Britain has MORE allies in the EU than both France and Germany have.
I guess I'm living in another EU than you are, at least with a bit more countries :wink: In Britain, Italy, Spain, as well as the Netherlands and Denmark, the government send troops to Iraq. Now I ask you the following: in how many of these countries was there an actual majority of people in favor of the decision of sending troops to Iraq? Britain? Ehm nope. Italy? I don't think so. Spain? Definitely not. The Netherlands? No. Denmark? Ow, they came close, but still: a majority opposed to the idea of sending troops to Iraq.

"New Europe" - nope, doesn't exist, at least, not in the definition Rumsfeld once tended to use.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Winnipeg
RE: Foreign dislike of Bu

Will anybody but Britain and the US still be in Iraq a year from now? Did anybody but Britain and the US make a really major contribution?