Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 5,154 
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Videos: 25
Location: Victoria, B.C.
June 30th, 2004, 08:49 AM
He should be put on trial for his crimes and put in jail for the rest of his life. To say that he was a monster and undeserving of a fair trial because he never gave others a fair trial is to make us as bad as he is.
He should be put on trial for his crimes and put in jail for the rest of his life. To say that he was a monster and undeserving of a fair trial because he never gave others a fair trial is to make us as bad as he is.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,172
June 30th, 2004, 09:25 AM
Right on. We will give him the benefit of the due process of law, because that's what we do. But, although he remains in the physical custody of the American occupation, he is now in the legal custody of the Iraqi government. One day, they will file a writ of habeas corpus. Then what? Any likely scenarios?
Right on. We will give him the benefit of the due process of law, because that's what we do. But, although he remains in the physical custody of the American occupation, he is now in the legal custody of the Iraqi government. One day, they will file a writ of habeas corpus. Then what? Any likely scenarios?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 30th, 2004, 09:37 AM
Well, habeus corpus is an unlikely scenario-- he is after all in Iraqi legal custody.
Once he's charged, the threat of habeus corpus is for the most part, nullified. I don't know if there is a speedy trial provision in the Iraqi criminal law system, but I suspect HIS lawyers are in no rush for a trial.
Well, habeus corpus is an unlikely scenario-- he is after all in Iraqi legal custody.
Once he's charged, the threat of habeus corpus is for the most part, nullified. I don't know if there is a speedy trial provision in the Iraqi criminal law system, but I suspect HIS lawyers are in no rush for a trial.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,172
June 30th, 2004, 09:52 AM
Yes, he's in Iraqi legal custody, but he remains in the physical custody of the American occupation. What's his status? If he is no longer a POW, then does any American judicial authority have jurisdiction over him? Yet, he remains in the physical custody of the U.S. martial authority. If he is to be arraigned before an Iraqi judge, they will need to have his carcass, summoned from The Twilight Zone
Will his loyal followers try to free him?
Will his desperate enemies assassinate him to prevent his being freed?
Will they go into his cell one morning, and find that he is dead? Died while in the custody of the Americans, who--it is widely suspected--do not want there to be a trial, because of facts that might be revealed?
Yes, he's in Iraqi legal custody, but he remains in the physical custody of the American occupation. What's his status? If he is no longer a POW, then does any American judicial authority have jurisdiction over him? Yet, he remains in the physical custody of the U.S. martial authority. If he is to be arraigned before an Iraqi judge, they will need to have his carcass, summoned from The Twilight Zone
Will his loyal followers try to free him?
Will his desperate enemies assassinate him to prevent his being freed?
Will they go into his cell one morning, and find that he is dead? Died while in the custody of the Americans, who--it is widely suspected--do not want there to be a trial, because of facts that might be revealed?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 30th, 2004, 10:01 AM
Good questions, fro the most part.
If Saddam is in custody of the US with Iraqi blessings, so be it. They are in effect, agents of the Irqi government.
I read this morning the Iraqis will probably hold the trial in the prison, for security reasons. The proceedings will be televised.
In the end, I don't think the Americans want him dead as much as the Russians or French do. Lots of damning paperwork, I understand.
Good questions, fro the most part.
If Saddam is in custody of the US with Iraqi blessings, so be it. They are in effect, agents of the Irqi government.
I read this morning the Iraqis will probably hold the trial in the prison, for security reasons. The proceedings will be televised.
In the end, I don't think the Americans want him dead as much as the Russians or French do. Lots of damning paperwork, I understand.
Don't bother arguing, I KNOW!
Posts: 10,754
Location: pumpkin pie bungalow
Location: pumpkin pie bungalow
June 30th, 2004, 10:06 AM
I heard on the CBC radio yesterday that the american miltrary has done nothing to preserve any of the evidence againist saddam. They mentioned the mass grave sites, and how his loyalists disquise or try and hide alot of the evidence.
The war crimes tribual that is collecting evidence againist him was discussing this on the current. I think it should be up to the Iraq people on how he should be dealt with. He does appear to have more than 9 lives, I would not be surprised if we have not heard the last of him or his followers.
I heard on the CBC radio yesterday that the american miltrary has done nothing to preserve any of the evidence againist saddam. They mentioned the mass grave sites, and how his loyalists disquise or try and hide alot of the evidence.
The war crimes tribual that is collecting evidence againist him was discussing this on the current. I think it should be up to the Iraq people on how he should be dealt with. He does appear to have more than 9 lives, I would not be surprised if we have not heard the last of him or his followers.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,065
Location: Montréal, Québec
Location: Montréal, Québec
June 30th, 2004, 10:39 AM
Quoting
heh, yea its the other way around. The Iraqi goverment are agents of the US.
Quoting
The U.S. authorities are agents of the Iraqi government? Isn't that rather a case of the tail wagging the dog?
If Saddam is in custody of the US with Iraqi blessings, so be it. They are in effect, agents of the Irqi government.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 30th, 2004, 10:43 AM
I was referring to legal agents.
Quoting
Good line. Quoting
heh, yea its the other way around. The Iraqi goverment are agents of the US.
Quoting
The U.S. authorities are agents of the Iraqi government? Isn't that rather a case of the tail wagging the dog?
If Saddam is in custody of the US with Iraqi blessings, so be it. They are in effect, agents of the Irqi government.
I was referring to legal agents.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,065
Location: Montréal, Québec
Location: Montréal, Québec
June 30th, 2004, 10:47 AM
Quoting
I think the majority of Iraqi's are biased in this. La Hague, should be the ones to put him a trial. Might take a few years, but justice will be done.
Are you implying that the Iraqis won't give him a fair trial-- and if so, who should try him?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 30th, 2004, 10:47 AM
All that, in addition to the local population who can bear witness. Mass graves have a way of being effective testimony.
Quoting
Can't say because I don't know-- but certainly the UN, for example has evidence and testimony from the Kurds, Shia, etc.
I heard on the CBC radio yesterday that the american miltrary has done nothing to preserve any of the evidence againist saddam. They mentioned the mass grave sites, and how his loyalists disquise or try and hide alot of the evidence.
The war crimes tribual that is collecting evidence againist him was discussing this on the current. I think it should be up to the Iraq people on how he should be dealt with. He does appear to have more than 9 lives, I would not be surprised if we have not heard the last of him or his followers.
The war crimes tribual that is collecting evidence againist him was discussing this on the current. I think it should be up to the Iraq people on how he should be dealt with. He does appear to have more than 9 lives, I would not be surprised if we have not heard the last of him or his followers.
All that, in addition to the local population who can bear witness. Mass graves have a way of being effective testimony.
