Bush's failed Mideast policy is creating more terrorism

moghrabi

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May 25, 2004
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By U.S. Senator Ernest F. Hollings

Originally published in the Charleston Post and Courier
May 6, 2004


With 760 dead in Iraq and over 3,000 maimed for life, home folks continue to argue why we are in Iraq -- and how to get out.

Now everyone knows what was not the cause. Even President Bush acknowledges that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. Listing the 45 countries where al-Qaida was operating on September 11 (70 cells in the U.S.), the State Department did not list Iraq. Richard Clarke, in "Against All Enemies," tells how the United States had not received any threat of terrorism for 10 years from Saddam at the time of our invasion.

On Page 231, John McLaughlin of the CIA verifies this to Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz. In 1993, President Clinton responded to Saddam's attempt on the life of President George H.W. Bush by putting a missile down on Saddam's intelligence headquarters in Baghdad. Not a big kill, but Saddam got the message -- monkey around with the United States and a missile lands on his head. Of course there were no weapons of mass destruction. Israel's intelligence, Mossad, knows what's going on in Iraq. They are the best. They have to know.

Israel's survival depends on knowing. Israel long since would have taken us to the weapons of mass destruction if there were any or if they had been removed. With Iraq no threat, why invade a sovereign country? The answer: President Bush's policy to secure Israel.

Led by Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Charles Krauthammer, for years there has been a domino school of thought that the way to guarantee Israel's security is to spread democracy in the area. Wolfowitz wrote: "The United States may not be able to lead countries through the door of democracy, but where that door is locked shut by a totalitarian deadbolt, American power may be the only way to open it up." And on another occasion: Iraq as "the first Arab democracy ... would cast a very large shadow, starting with Syria and Iran but across the whole Arab world." Three weeks before the invasion, President Bush stated: "A new regime in Iraq would serve as a dramatic and inspiring example for freedom for other nations in the region."

Every president since 1947 has made a futile attempt to help Israel negotiate peace. But no leadership has surfaced amongst the Palestinians that can make a binding agreement. President Bush realized his chances at negotiation were no better. He came to office imbued with one thought -- re-election. Bush felt tax cuts would hold his crowd together and spreading democracy in the Mideast to secure Israel would take the Jewish vote from the Democrats. You don't come to town and announce your Israel policy is to invade Iraq. But George W. Bush, as stated by former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill and others, started laying the groundwork to invade Iraq days after inauguration. And, without any Iraq connection to 9/11, within weeks he had the Pentagon outlining a plan to invade Iraq. He was determined.

President Bush thought taking Iraq would be easy. Wolfowitz said it would take only seven days. Vice President Cheney believed we would be greeted as liberators. But Cheney's man, Chalabi, made a mess of the de-Baathification of Iraq by dismissing Republican Guard leadership and Sunni leaders who soon joined with the insurgents. Worst of all, we tried to secure Iraq with too few troops.

In 1966 in South Vietnam, with a population of 16,543,000, Gen. William C. Westmoreland, with 535,000 U.S. troops was still asking for more. In Iraq with a population of 24,683,000, Gen. John Abizaid with only 135,000 troops can barely secure the troops much less the country. If the troops are there to fight, they are too few. If there to die, they are too many. To secure Iraq we need more troops -- at least 100,000 more. The only way to get the United Nations back in Iraq is to make the country secure. Once back, the French, Germans and others will join with the U.N. to take over.

With President Bush's domino policy in the Mideast gone awry, he keeps shouting, "Terrorism War." Terrorism is a method, not a war. We don't call the Crimean War with the Charge of the Light Brigade the Cavalry War. Or World War II the Blitzkrieg War. There is terrorism in Northern Ireland against the Brits. There is terrorism in India and in Pakistan. In the Mideast, terrorism is a separate problem to be defeated by diplomacy and negotiation, not militarily. Here, might does not make right -- right makes might. Acting militarily, we have created more terrorism than we have eliminated.

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http://hollings.senate.gov/~hollings/opinion/2004506A17.html
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
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moghrabi said:
Ask your friend Bush. Or you can contact the sentor above to gladely answer your question.

What did Bush have to do with bin Laden's fatwa in 1998?
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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The US was supporting Bin Laden to fight against the soviets. After Bin Laden kicked the Russians out of afganistan, the US left him as they did to a lot of people who did the dirty work for them. So his Fatwa came at that time.

You have to understand that a Fatwa can not come from anybody like Bin laden or his like. Not a lot of people are fond with Bin Laden and they do not go to follow his fatwa. So he could call a fatwa today, so what? Do you think the moselm world is going to jump to the occassion?
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
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moghrabi said:
The US was supporting Bin Laden to fight against the soviets. After Bin Laden kicked the Russians out of afganistan, the US left him as they did to a lot of people who did the dirty work for them. So his Fatwa came at that time.

You have to understand that a Fatwa can not come from anybody like Bin laden or his like. Not a lot of people are fond with Bin Laden and they do not go to follow his fatwa. So he could call a fatwa today, so what? Do you think the moselm world is going to jump to the occassion?

So what? That bin Laden was supported the US is meaningless. WE supported his war against the Russians.

Then he went out and contributed to the Talibanization of Afghanistan. That was his CHOICE. As was his CHOICE to issue the fatwa against Americans and Jews.

Like I said earlier, I give you a car to go to work and then you get drunk and kill someone, don't blame me for giving you the car.

As for the fatwa NOT coming from bin Laden, well, from where did it come?
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
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Larnaka
Sorry to jump in on your little debate here, but here's my two cents. I'm going to play the quoting game.

researchok said:
So what? That bin Laden was supported the US is meaningless. WE supported his war against the Russians.

Actually, the Americans were at war with the Soviets. They did support bin Laden.. but it wasn't meaningless. The US used Usama bin Laden to do their dirty, yes.. They also trained him and equipped him with weapons. It's not meaningless as you say.

researchok said:
Then he went out and contributed to the Talibanization of Afghanistan. That was his CHOICE. As was his CHOICE to issue the fatwa against Americans and Jews.

I'm sorry. That talibanisation of Afghanistan? The Taliban was not really tied to Al Quada. They were two completely sets of groups. One was a government, the other was a rogue terrorist organisation which LIVED in areas that the Taliban had NO CONTROL OVER! Up in the mountain, remember? Even CNN admits they lived in remote regions including the mountains.... Taliban had NO control over that.

researchok said:
Like I said earlier, I give you a car to go to work and then you get drunk and kill someone, don't blame me for giving you the car.

It's not as simple as that, researchok. We're talking about a superpower here that fed what they knew were terrorist organisations. You can't compare that to someone who's drinking and driving!
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
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Andem said:
Sorry to jump in on your little debate here, but here's my two cents. I'm going to play the quoting game.

researchok said:
So what? That bin Laden was supported the US is meaningless. WE supported his war against the Russians.

Actually, the Americans were at war with the Soviets. They did support bin Laden.. but it wasn't meaningless. The US used Usama bin Laden to do their dirty, yes.. They also trained him and equipped him with weapons. It's not meaningless as you say.

researchok said:
Then he went out and contributed to the Talibanization of Afghanistan. That was his CHOICE. As was his CHOICE to issue the fatwa against Americans and Jews.

I'm sorry. That talibanisation of Afghanistan? The Taliban was not really tied to Al Quada. They were two completely sets of groups. One was a government, the other was a rogue terrorist organisation which LIVED in areas that the Taliban had NO CONTROL OVER! Up in the mountain, remember? Even CNN admits they lived in remote regions including the mountains.... Taliban had NO control over that.

researchok said:
Like I said earlier, I give you a car to go to work and then you get drunk and kill someone, don't blame me for giving you the car.

It's not as simple as that, researchok. We're talking about a superpower here that fed what they knew were terrorist organisations. You can't compare that to someone who's drinking and driving!

Andem, good to have you join in!

Firstly, the war we fought was a COLD war, fought by proxies. Why should Bin Laden be regarded differently? He was a proxy, no more no less.

As for the Talibanization of Iraq, it was bin Laden who funded the Taliban, to a great degree. It was also he who instigated and reinstated the policy of growing and selling poppy. He very much set the tone for Mullah Omars regime.

As far funding bin Laden, his antipathy towards the US came after the war.

It was his choice to expand his war from fighting the Russians.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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researchok said:
Andem said:
Sorry to jump in on your little debate here, but here's my two cents. I'm going to play the quoting game.

researchok said:
So what? That bin Laden was supported the US is meaningless. WE supported his war against the Russians.

Actually, the Americans were at war with the Soviets. They did support bin Laden.. but it wasn't meaningless. The US used Usama bin Laden to do their dirty, yes.. They also trained him and equipped him with weapons. It's not meaningless as you say.

researchok said:
Then he went out and contributed to the Talibanization of Afghanistan. That was his CHOICE. As was his CHOICE to issue the fatwa against Americans and Jews.

I'm sorry. That talibanisation of Afghanistan? The Taliban was not really tied to Al Quada. They were two completely sets of groups. One was a government, the other was a rogue terrorist organisation which LIVED in areas that the Taliban had NO CONTROL OVER! Up in the mountain, remember? Even CNN admits they lived in remote regions including the mountains.... Taliban had NO control over that.

researchok said:
Like I said earlier, I give you a car to go to work and then you get drunk and kill someone, don't blame me for giving you the car.

It's not as simple as that, researchok. We're talking about a superpower here that fed what they knew were terrorist organisations. You can't compare that to someone who's drinking and driving!

Andem, good to have you join in!

Firstly, the war we fought was a COLD war, fought by proxies. Why should Bin Laden be regarded differently? He was a proxy, no more no less.

As for the Talibanization of Iraq, it was bin Laden who funded the Taliban, to a great degree. It was also he who instigated and reinstated the policy of growing and selling poppy. He very much set the tone for Mullah Omars regime.

As far funding bin Laden, his antipathy towards the US came after the war.

It was his choice to expand his war from fighting the Russians.

All I can say to you, Researchok, is that you need to do more research as your name implies. You try to simplyify everything to meet your opinion. As Andem said, it is not as simple as that. The US created the monster that they are dealing with now. The same goes with Saddam and the rest of them.
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
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All I can say to you, Researchok, is that you need to do more research as your name implies. You try to simplyify everything to meet your opinion. As Andem said, it is not as simple as that. The US created the monster that they are dealing with now. The same goes with Saddam and the rest of them.

Well, thats all well and good-- but what EXACTLY are you referring to?

You put words on here, but don't SAY anything.

Seems to me, you're the one who needs to do a lot of homework.

As for the US 'creating' Saddam, that really is an oversimplifiaction and patently untrue, in the same way that the US 'created' OBL.

But you know that.

As for trying to 'simplyify everything to meet your opinion', might I suggest you look on the mirror.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Lol, you are really a funny character. Who created Saddam? Didn't Ronald Reagan send Rumsfeld to him to sell him all the chemicals to hit Iran, and torch the kurds? When all is done, they left him as they did to OBL. Then they have to get rid of him.

As for "I put words here and I don't say anything", Maybe you do not understand politics. You are only good at twisting the truth.
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
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moghrabi said:
Lol, you are really a funny character. Who created Saddam? Didn't Ronald Reagan send Rumsfeld to him to sell him all the chemicals to hit Iran, and torch the kurds? When all is done, they left him as they did to OBL. Then they have to get rid of him.

As for "I put words here and I don't say anything", Maybe you do not understand politics. You are only good at twisting the truth.

WOW.

You really don't know, do you?

Saddam was sent chemical PRECURSORS, as were a dozen other countries. They were to be used for research into next generation fertilizers and pesticides. Saddam CHOSE to use them for other reasons.

The Kurds-- remember them?

Really, you need to learn a bit more!
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Do you really think anyone can belive for one moment what you are saying. Fertilizers. That is the funniest thing I ever heard. Get serious. The US knew exactly what they are giving him and for what purpose. Again - get serious or all the people reading this will start laughing at your reasoning.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
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Let's try to be civilized.
--------------------------------

Now that's out of the way...

The United States is notorious for creating and/or supporting, guiding and representing harsh criminal leaders who have certain goals in mind.

Musharraf / Pakistan: He's on their side now.. Soon enough, he will be their enemy. Just like he was before.

Hussein / Iraq: Again, the US was very friendly with Iraq when they invaded Iran. Supplied them with weapons, chemicals, you name it!

bin Laden / Al Quada: An ally of the United States. Once again, provided with weapons, training, support, etc. Now he's public enemy #1.


The US does what is good for them at that one point in time. They will stab their allies in the back, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, and throw our whole world into chaos just as long as their fiscal reports look good.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Andem said:
Let's try to be civilized.
--------------------------------

Now that's out of the way...

The United States is notorious for creating and/or supporting, guiding and representing harsh criminal leaders who have certain goals in mind.

Musharraf / Pakistan: He's on their side now.. Soon enough, he will be their enemy. Just like he was before.

Hussein / Iraq: Again, the US was very friendly with Iraq when they invaded Iran. Supplied them with weapons, chemicals, you name it!

bin Laden / Al Quada: An ally of the United States. Once again, provided with weapons, training, support, etc. Now he's public enemy #1.


The US does what is good for them at that one point in time. They will stab their allies in the back, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, and throw our whole world into chaos just as long as their fiscal reports look good.

Thanks Andem for joining in.
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
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moghrabi said:
Do you really think anyone can belive for one moment what you are saying. Fertilizers. That is the funniest thing I ever heard. Get serious. The US knew exactly what they are giving him and for what purpose. Again - get serious or all the people reading this will start laughing at your reasoning.

Its a fact- the PRECURSORS were given to many ciuntries for research purposes. Saddam used them to develop gas. No other country did so.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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well this is what you think. It is oversimplifying the issue. No one in his/her right mind is going to believe this theory of yours. I really hope you don't start believing yourself.
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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Good heavens. Saddam Hussein was given all kinds of weapons, in order to help with his fight against Iran. Wasn't it Reagan who had Iraq REMOVED from the official list of states supporting terrorism? Wasn't it Cheney who went there to MEET with Saddam? Don't try to pretend it wasn't about the weapons. It won't wash.

Bin Laden is a member of the bin Laden family, who is well connected with not only the royal family in Saudi Arabia, but also the Bush family. Didn't George Bush the First sit on the board of directors of the bin Laden construction company????? And bin Laden was an employee of the CIA, fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. When the Russians gave up on Afghanistan, he used his connections to continue his fight against what he sees as the evil version of Islam: the Saudi version, influenced by the US. He believes that the Islamic world is being destroyed by the west.

It's just another case or two of how, if you use a nasty person as a tool to do your bidding, then you shouldn't be surprised when it all turns on you.
 

researchok

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Jun 12, 2004
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moghrabi said:
well this is what you think. It is oversimplifying the issue. No one in his/her right mind is going to believe this theory of yours. I really hope you don't start believing yourself.

Theories??



http://slate.msn.com/id/2085263/

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3553

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2003/02/18/World/Eurobiz.Is.Caught.Arming.Saddam-357431.shtml

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect3.html

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020916/story.html

http://www.meforum.org/article/293

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2799755.stm

http://www.mideastnews.com/blix140203.html

There are more referances available.

You say it is a theory. On what basis do you say that?